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    • Please bear with me here i shall try and make this short but with all the detail, but i need help ASAP as there is limited time allowed for this process. I have been with my company 4 years and have advanced through the technical ranks to my current position,  we have an annual report which goes from 0-4 and for three years i have never scored lower than a 3. I was promoted to the role i am in now as an area quality assurance lead and the location was for the NE ( i live in the NW) eventually a similar role became available for another role in the NW. I asked my line manager if he minded me applying for it and he had no issues, i applied sat the multi stage interview and was given the role. My role is now classed as "at risk" of redundancy as we are moving from 4 regions to two which means they are also moving from 4 roles to two roles in my position. Two people are considered safe and myself and another at risk, my question is what is the criteria to separate safe from at risk . In the documentation received from my company it is below, i have zero issues and i know cv against cv mine wins, i was even selected by the company as a company mentor because of my experience in engineering and leadership. This is a closed group of maybe ten people and i am the only non senior executive included.    ·         Performance and Behaviour : I have zero behaviour issues, no issues with performance from my current line manager.  ·         Performance Improvement/ Disciplinary Records   : Zero disciplinary's and no performance issues, in fact my line manager on record has said I'm forthcoming ·         End Of Year Rating : Issues explained below Now my line manager was leaving the company and he did tell me "there was some politics involved with you getting that role, the city build manager and head of area build had promised it to their lead engineer (something they had no right to promise as it has to go though the process ) anyway from day 1 it became very clear that i would not be accepted for this reason within their community although i did just try to help them achieve quality and specification as that was my role. After a few weeks it became very apparent as to why the role had been promised to their man, i found issues where properties had been signed off as ready to accept subscribers when they were not ready (for bonus and stat reasons) and several quality issues i discovered which we could remedy and improve our productivity (unfortunately this would highlight that these issues had been there and not dealt with) My new head of area build (part of this trilogy of him, city build manager and lead engineer)  clearly did not want me there (for the reasons stated) but paid lip service, i had highlighted that i needed to walk off some structured with our canter of excellence counterparts ( as this was part of my role to link in with them for national issues) and he responded by saying i am not to walk them off, and that we have sufficient engineers to do that task (by saying this he could make sure that the engineers would take them round to structures that are A not the ones i have highlighted, and B would have very minor issues) This battle went back and forth over the months where i tried my best to build up the relationship with  them, my attitude was ok you have made some mistakes here, but we are all a team and even though you have hidden issues i can help you remedy them and hopefully we can do so and keep them off the radar,  but they just never did, So moving forward to October last year (2023) this is getting near to annual review time, now i had helped the company out massively by working a substantial amount of weekends and nights to fix issues, and i said i would take most of the time as TOIL ( as agreed with by my previous head of area build) this was 30 days. My current head of area build said i needed to put my leave in as it had been flagged as having a large amount. When i did input the leave (it would result in me taking all of December off) he was unhappy with me and was extremely curt in his responses as he could find nothing on the system for my TOIL , i explained the situation, my line manager would ask if i could work the hours, i would, and when i wanted leave he would authorise (we had an good working relationship, he was an excellent manager) he ended up going to HR to ask their advice and a teams call was set up with myself, head of area build and HR, it was confirmed by HR that it was a company error, when you want to input TOIL there should be a dropdown option in the leave menu and one of the options would be TOIL, this had not been setup on mine. So the company authorised the leave explaining that this should have been done and hadn't, i did say that this is the way it had always been and pretty much everyone on my team then operated this way, TOIL had never been discussed and none of had this option available. So i entered my leave from 4th December - 2nd January,  My line manager was an outside contractor and was leaving the company on the 15th December. On my return i found that we had a new head of area build, it would be a temporary position as they were not going to fill the position permanently and he would be covering his role (Scotland) and this role (NW). I contacted him to say that i had not received my end of year report yet and when would this happen as i had not sat with my line manager tor mine. A little over a week later my HoAB and i had a teams call, it was a introduction meeting and end of year report, he said that he had received feedback from the outgoing manager and he had given me a 2 (i have as explained before never scored lower than a 3) he asked hoe long i had been in the current role (just over a year) as this grade can mean you are new to the role and need a little supervision, haven't built up relationships with stakeholders etc. So he explained what my grade and bonus would be and if i had any feedback, i explained that this was unfair, i had proof that i had not met my targets (i say targets as there were never really any set, but going from emails and conversation we have had, and the job description) i had even created Powerpoint presentations which were very complex into how our network works from beginning to end  as there was distinct lack of knowledge here and i am a lead trainer / assessor (this btw he was extremely impressed with) He did say he had spoken to people in the centre of excellence which o believe was the head of operations, and he did look confused as to the disparity in feedback from them and the original manager that wrote my report. I contacted HR to raising my concerns that i had not sat with my line manager to go through my report,  had i had the chance to do so, i could have rebutted anything said as i had proof of my achievements even though he had set no defined targets, i could prove that i had been extremely active in identifying and remedying issues, HR did come back to me and these are their comments  1) "Your rating was submitted by your manager at the time xxx xxxxxx and he should have carried out an EOY review with you. The rating would not have been provided in this review but feedback should have been shared" [this never happened] 2)  Initial ratings where then discussed and reviewed during a calibration process (for your team) this will have included HOABs and RDs. During this session ratings can be challenged and changed. I can confirm that your rating was not changed as a result of this session and it remained at the rating that xxx submitted. 3) xxx did provide thorough feedback to xxx xxx in a handover so if not already done so it may be worth speaking with him to understand that feedback further.   4) In terms of reputation and the concern you share – ratings are not made public and are private to each individual. 5) And this first line obviously is incorrect " As far as i can see this would be the only separator they could have measured me on to separate safe from not safe, and if so the company did not follow its own procedure. My current line manager said " an error had occurred as you had not received the option to  sir with your manager for your review, and the company needs to make sure this error does not happen again) Well then they are admitting there was an issue and it needs remedying not sweeping under the carpet. All of this is documented. To remind the rating of a 2 is not a concerning grade. Please see descriptor below Generally, needs little supervision but does on occasion require direction/supervision. Does not always anticipate changes to the work environment and could adapt more quickly. May be seen as a strong performer in certain situations or by some audiences but may not perform at that level in all situations. May need some development or guidance to carry out some elements of role. May not consistently demonstrate the right behaviours. May have been on Performance Improvement during the year but has since shown strong improvement        
    • Also, what is the value of the dress and have you refunded the purchaser?
    • Simon Case was at the Covid inquiry yesterday. Finally. ‘Eat out to help out’ launched without telling official in charge, Covid inquiry hears | Covid inquiry | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Simon Case, who was responsible for Covid policy at time, calls Boris Johnson’s Downing Street the ‘worst governing ever seen’  
    • I think for the moment you will have to wait for the return of the dress to you And then take some decent photographs which will show the damage very clearly. You will have to provide these to parcel to go but also you will need them as evidence for the court if that's the way this matter goes . Let us know when you get the dress and you have the photographs. It would be helpful to see the photographs here. In the meantime I suggest that you start reading as many of the stories on the subforum as you can manage in 2 or 3 days and that means quite a lot. In particular read the pinned posts at the top of the subforum which will explain the principles involved which you will probably have to use if you bring the matter to court. When you have done the reading, when you have received the dress and when you have the photographs then come back here and we can go to the next step      
    • Solid blocks of text are very difficult for people to follow and especially when they are using small screens such as telephones. This discourages people from giving you the kind of help that you need. Please will you make sure that your posts are properly spaced and punctuated in future.  I have done this one for you on this occasion
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      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

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      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Legalcare.co.uk Court Claim - **Settled at Mediation**


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Hi Danie1le,

 

Have you seeked legal advice? Why don't you ask the BBC I had a situation and Radio Norfolk took up the case and the parties who just insisted I owned then eventually backed off and the Government department

 

resolved the problem.

 

So this maybe an avenue you could explore with your local BBC. These people don't like this publicity.

 

Kind Regards

tim d

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Thanks Mike, I sent the letter off last week and today I've had a reply from Paul Careless, he said that they don't agree to discontinuance and they are happy to go ahead with the full hearing. It looks like I am in this for the long haul!

 

He said he would consider a settlement offer to bring the matter to a close but I won't be making one because I don't owe them a single penny!

If they're intent to take this all the way then bring that Without Prejudice - save as to costs letter to court and when the judge kicks out their claim you'll be able to show it to the court when you bring up the matter of your costs.

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Danielle, did you read the blog in the following link - I think there is likely all the terms and conditions you might require.

 

http://www.davidsottimano.com/legalcare-co-uk-instant-review-horrible-company-do-not-use/

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi Danie1le,

 

Have you seeked legal advice? Why don't you ask the BBC I had a situation and Radio Norfolk took up the case and the parties who just insisted I owned then eventually backed off and the Government department

 

resolved the problem.

 

So this maybe an avenue you could explore with your local BBC. These people don't like this publicity.

 

Kind Regards

tim d

 

I initially went to citizens advice who referred me to the citizens advice consumer service who referred me to the legal ombudsman who referred me back to the citizens advice consumer service and to be honest the posts here have been much more helpful and informative than they have been.

 

I haven't considered BBC Radio Stoke although I have written to my local MP Paul Farrelly who has responded personally and while I am not sure what help he can give me with my case he has on my behalf written to Vince Cable about my case and to ask him why companies like Legal Care are not regulated and are being allowed to operate as they do.

 

If they're intent to take this all the way then bring that Without Prejudice - save as to costs letter to court and when the judge kicks out their claim you'll be able to show it to the court when you bring up the matter of your costs.

 

Thank you, I will do, I have copies of everything.

 

Danielle, did you read the blog in the following link - I think there is likely all the terms and conditions you might require.

 

http://www.davidsottimano.com/legalcare-co-uk-instant-review-horrible-company-do-not-use/

 

Thank you, yes I have been following that blog for a while.

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  • 3 weeks later...

It's been quiet for a while but I have a court date - 10am on Monday, 4th November.

 

I received a letter today requesting that I send a copy of documents I wish to take to court with me no later than 14 days before the hearing. It has also invited me to contact the courts mediator.

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Hi Danielle,

 

You should get together all the documents and evidence you have, so it can be put into order for your Court Bundle (the evidence that you'll submit in support of your defence).

 

This will include screen shots before and after the site changed the way they displayed their T&C's, all letters exchanged, notes of any tel cons, etc.

 

You should also contact the court mediator so you can show that you tried to resolve the matter without a court hearing.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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Thanks Slick,

 

How am I best going about doing this? How would I show/present the evidence too them.

 

I was under the impression that I would need to write a more detailed statement / defence but there is no mention of this in any of the papers from the court.

 

My biggest concern is how I will come across in court, I am quite shy and don't speak very well at all, I'm even dreading the mediation! I've been in touch with them, they are waiting to hear from Legal Care.

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Danie1le, I think you are referring to a Witness statement. You could prepare one of these for yourself if you haven't been asked to produce one already and enclose it with your bundle - you should refer to the documents you are providing within the WS. At least it will help you stay focussed if you are shy/nervous :)

 

I have attached some general information about preparing a witness statement :)

 

I have also attached a Guide for LiPs (Litigant in Persons) which is what you will be as you are unrepresented.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]46361[/ATTACH]

 

Guidance Notes for WS.pdf

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi D,

 

Can you please confirm exactly what the court Directions say.

 

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Thanks for the advice citizen, I will have a read through those links.

 

I think it's easier if I just post links to a scan of what I received from the court.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/dazza_stoke/img133.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/dazza_stoke/img134.jpg

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Hi Danielle,

 

I note on the PoC that the Claimant says he will provide you "with separate detailed Particulars within 14 days after service of the claim form". Did this happen and, if so, what was sent to you.

 

There should be an attempt at Mediation as Directed by the judge.

 

Your evidence, as I suggested earlier, needs to be prepared ready to File and Serve (to the court and to the claimant) a clear 14 days before the Hearing date.

 

:-)

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Thanks Slick,

 

It was the separate particulars I received first a day before the claim form.

 

This was sent... (along with a copy of the Terms & Conditions)

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/dazza_stoke/20130620_192300.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/dazza_stoke/20130620_192426.jpg

 

I have been talking with the mediation service and it is difficult to arrange an appointment around work. We are looking at the first week of October when I have a holiday if the claimant agrees.

 

I have a folder with the evidence in which I can scan and send copies to the court and the claimant. I just don't understand how it would be presented, does it need to be in any sort of order?

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Hi Danie1le

 

The w/s should be constructed in such a way that it provides the DJ with the story/timeline of events with reference to any evidence/exhibit you wish to rely upon.

 

Don't go overboard though, the last thing you want is the j getting bored with repetitive points of dispute and protracted arguments.

 

Where you refer to an exhibit note it accordingly within the w/s ( provide it with a reference.... ex1, ex2 etc etc) and attach to bundle for service and filing.

 

Probably best that its in your own words but by all means attach a copy on here as it may promote suggestions.

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Hi Danielle,

 

It occurred to me last night that you should include relevant references to the case of The OFT v Ashbourne Mgt Services Ltd. This gives clear guidance on what Mr Justice Kitchin thought was acceptable as notice of cancellation by a consumer with regard to an agreement or contract.

 

:-)

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Thanks for the advice, I will start working on putting a proper folder together with references as well as a witness statement.

 

How would I go about referencing the OFT v Ashbourne case? Would I quote from it or just refer to it, and which parts?

 

Thank you!

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You can refer to it and mention the specific parts of either the full ruling or the Penal Order made against AMSL.

 

The main point I would want to put across is that an agreement or contract can be cancelled by the consumer in various ways and it does NOT have to be done ONLY in the manner set out in T&C's given by the supplier.

 

Use the AMSL case thread in the Gym Forum Stickies to find the main ruling from 2011 and the subsequent Penal Order made by the Judge. If you need help on this, just shout.

 

:-)

Edited by slick132
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  • 2 weeks later...

I think I will need help in how to refer to or quote from the AMSL case, I have tried to read the full ruling but a lot of t is going straight over my head, I am not sure which parts specifically are relevant to my case.

 

Any help is appreciated. Many Thanks

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OK Danielle,

 

Apart from reference to the AMSL case, have you put anything together yet to submit as your evidence in defence of the claim ?

 

:-)

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I have mainly written a witness statement, I have been concentrating on that so I can use it as a guide during mediation next week.. but I would also like to mention the AMSL case to the mediators too, I just don't know how to, should I include it in my witness statement?

 

I do have a folder with some screen shots and print outs. It just needs organising.

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Hi D,

 

I don't think you need refer to the AMSL case in your Witness Statement (WS). The WS is simply a brief factual description of events, setting out a simple line of events with dates as seen from your point of view.

 

The key points of the AMSL ruling are that Mr Justice Kitchin confirmed that an agreement can be terminated in several ways, not in specific or limited ways that may work to the consumer's detriment. I would include something like :-

 

10. The claimant's insisted that the contract/agreement could only be cancelled in a specific manner, which was unfair and prejudiced the defendant.

 

11. In the case of The OFT v Ashbourne Management Services Ltd [[2011] EWHC 1237 (Ch)] , Mr Justice Kitchin referred to gym membership agreements and the specific way in which members were required to give notice to cancel.

 

12. In the Penal Order made by Mr Justice Kitchin against AMSL in August 2011, at 16(ii) he said, "For the avoidance of doubt: an individual gym member may terminate an agreement by giving a gym club, or AMSL or agent or employee of the gym club, notice by words or conduct that he or she (a) has ended the agreement (b) intends to end it or © believes that it ought to be ended, whether by a written statement in a letter or an email, by an oral statement made during a meeting or a phone call, by cancellation of a direct debit mandate, or otherwise."

 

13. The defendant claims that the manner in which she cancelled any agreement with the claimant was sufficient to end the agreement.

 

The numbers are just to show how the evidence can be set out into small paragraphs.

 

:-)

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I'm going to run my advice above by other Site Team members to check they agree..................

 

:wink:

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Thanks !:-)

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