Got a PCN while in the car

[go6imir]

Hi guys,that case might be easy for many of you,hope so,as I need to appeal it and prepare with proper grounds Ill need some help.

 

Hopefully will work.

 

Let me explain the situation I got the PCN:

 

It's from Islington council,I did some work there and was loading some things for short time and was planning to leave soon,so I did put a visitor voucher for 30mins on public road resident permit holders,all fine but the time was going to past and I did ask for second one,checked the car was fine and start scratching the new permit and making my way to the car as I was on the third floor of a building,so when I got to the first floor window I saw the warden parking his bike and getting off and making his way to my car I run and in 5-10 sec I was behind him with the new permit and telling him that all fine while he was taking a picture of my tax disc,

 

 

I kept talking and showing him the permit but he didn't even turn his head to me and took one more photo of the already just expired Voucher.So in this moment I thought he has eye and ear problems and I touch his shoulder to ask for his attention and he start shouting not to touch him and that its too late,that moment I got really upset and I get in to the car and ignored him,turn on the engine,lights and at that time he printed the ticket and tried to put it on the windscreen but at the same moment I turn on the wipers and the ticket stick to the left wiper and start moving with it ,

 

he tried to do a photo,may be 2 while my new voucher with started time was already on the windscreen showing and I was shocked looking at him what he is doing.I took the ticket from the moving wiper I calm down and simply asked him why he is doing that and its unfair and I should be stupid not to appeal,He said that's my business to do,he is doing his business,what a business?

 

 

Got a witness(the resident I was visiting who gave me the voucher came to see whats going on cause she knew I have voucher for the parked time with me)

I mean this shouldn't be right,cant pay this ticket,no way,the time on the ticket I got and its been printed is 3 mins after my second voucher time starting,I got the new one and the old one with me,he got photograph of my tax disk and the old Voucher and the rest of the photos are with me in working car and new voucher on the screen.

 

Any suggestions for grounds?

Thanks

Edited April 23, 2013 by citizenB
formatting

[Michael Browne]

What are the observation times on the PCN? Motorists must be allowed a reasonable time from when they parked to collect a visitor permit.

[Jamberson]

Can you use 30 minute vouchers consecutively? Or can you only use one, then leave?

[go6imir]

Hi,I can use more then one voucher up to 6 hours limit but that day I was planning to leave in 30 mins and I didn't put 2 or more ,just one and then when I realize i need second one I went to the car to replace with new one

The time on the PCN 11.19am,The time when my second voucher start and the first expired is 11.15am,for this 4 mins all this happen what explained earlier and the only one thing I could do is to leave but I had the new permit and I was parked legally at that time and didn't want to run.

He didn't give any time,about 10secs after he arrived he start picturing and writing

[Jamberson]

Hi,I can use more then one voucher up to 6 hours limit

 

OK, but that's not quite what I was getting at. The question isn't the maximum stay allowed, it's whether you are allowed to go back and add more vouchers to extend your stay. In some cases you can't do that.

 

I don't know the voucher system in that location, but often you can use multiple vouchers for a longer stay, but they all need to be scratched with your arrival time and displayed side by side. You can't then go back and add more for more time - it would help if you could check and find out what the rules say about that.

[go6imir]

Hi guys,this is the outcome,I did write to them a simple representation with few questions and they even didn't bother to answer,they send me this NTO straight ,i did send it online and have electronic proof but dont know if this is something important,pls advice what to do next.

As you see on all the photos except one with the voucher I'm appearing on them,2 of them I'm in the car,1 I'm going in the door is open.The one without me he did while I was talking to him at the back,Dont know what to do,pls help,cant give up now.Thanks

Edited June 25, 2013 by go6imir

[go6imir]

OK, but that's not quite what I was getting at. The question isn't the maximum stay allowed, it's whether you are allowed to go back and add more vouchers to extend your stay. In some cases you can't do that.

 

I don't know the voucher system in that location, but often you can use multiple vouchers for a longer stay, but they all need to be scratched with your arrival time and displayed side by side. You can't then go back and add more for more time - it would help if you could check and find out what the rules say about that.

Had other days with 4-5 vouchers together,suppose its ok,will send the voucher at the back its explaining that

[renegadeimp]

please edit the reference numbers from the images and reupload them.

[go6imir]

OK, but that's not quite what I was getting at. The question isn't the maximum stay allowed, it's whether you are allowed to go back and add more vouchers to extend your stay. In some cases you can't do that.

 

I don't know the voucher system in that location, but often you can use multiple vouchers for a longer stay, but they all need to be scratched with your arrival time and displayed side by side. You can't then go back and add more for more time - it would help if you could check and find out what the rules say about that.

There was other days I did put 3-4 of them with no problem,its explaining at the back of the voucher,will send now

[AndyOrch]

Attachments unapproved please remove reference numbers /identifiable data and re post.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[go6imir]

This is the back of the voucher

No photo with ticket on the car?!!?!!?

Edited June 25, 2013 by go6imir

[Jamberson]

Yep, I think that's the problem. Terms and conditions state the vouchers muct be scratched to show the time you parked.

 

I can't see from the photo of the voucher what time it shows, but you said in post 4 that the time the second voucher started was 11.15. But you parked some time before that, so the voucher was not scratched correctly.

 

That's why the PCN was issued. You can't add more time and keep parking there.

[go6imir]

Hi,I had 2 Vouchers,the second one starts at 11.15,the first one on my dush start at 10.40 valid for 30mins,the CEO arrive at the car 30sec before me and we were at the car at 11.15 with the new voucher in my hand,the ticket is issued 11.19,there is nothing wrong with the vouchers or else I wont be here

[Raykay]

Hi,I had 2 Vouchers,the second one starts at 11.15,the first one on my dush start at 10.40 valid for 30mins,the CEO arrive at the car 30sec before me and we were at the car at 11.15 with the new voucher in my hand,the ticket is issued 11.19,there is nothing wrong with the vouchers or else I wont be here

 

According to the instructions and conditions, you have to display, at the time of parking, the total number of vouchers for the time you are there, you cannot 'add time' later by displaying another voucher.

[go6imir]

OK,If we ignore the fact that I had voucher for the time I got the ticket and the fact that the voucher wasn't on the dash and was in my hand trying to display to the CEO and let him go and check unattended cars with invalid parking permits,because this voucher cost money and it was used already for this time and this car,if we ignore this fact how we can ignore the fact that I was in the car,that is the topic name,u can see on each photo,the car was unlocked and on two photos I'm in the car the door is open,I was unloading,I was in the car again to repeat even without vouchers I should n get a ticket,there is no photo of the car with the ticket,the easier way for me was to leave and run but at that time I was sure I have right to stay,if I did run he will have only one photo of the permit and my tax disk,non photo of the car it self,photo of the sign of parking restrictions,the time between this photos wont be there.We cant ignore all this facts,I did believe that I have right to stay and in case I get a doggy ticket I will always fight it back because I'm right,so please guys if there is any ideas how to fight the ticket lets point to them cause I believe there is lots and some of you will know very well and help to stop the non sense acts of the CEO's and councils trying to repressed and rip off the drivers on the streets outlaw.I know PCN can be frighted even if its with reason and I had fault but this case is not like that,I stayed cause I wasn't wrong,so pls lets look for ideas to fight the ticket not for reason not to.Thanks guys

[Raykay]

Your second voucher was not valid as it was not displayed at the time of parking, the fact that you were in the car has no bearing on the fact that the voucher you displayed at the time of parking had expired.

[Jamberson]

You said there is a maximum 6 hour stay in that bay. Therefore, if people could go back to the car and keep topping up their vouchers by adding more, they could stay forever. The CEO would not know when the car was actually first parked there, and they would always have a valid voucher on show.

 

So - they tell you in the instructions, you much scratch the voucher to show the time you parked. Because you scratched it with a false time, it was not valid for use.

 

I can see you feel aggrieved and thought you were doing the right thing, but the PCN can be enforced because it was issued for a legitimate reason - not displaying a valid voucher.

 

You can appeal again. It's worth a try, but I can't see any clear way that you can make them cancel it if they refuse.

 

The only thing I would say is, you never had a reply to your first appeal. Therefore you weren't offered the discounted payment option - they just sent you an NTO. This might be worth looking into - find out if they got your appeal and if they did reply. You can always ask for the discount to be reinstated and see what they say.

[go6imir]

Thanks JAMBERSON,so far this is the only one creative and helping comment, don't know whats the point of the rest doing it at all may be to stop me not to appeal,there should be other web for that postings,some kind of government supported one

Anyway,I understand your point and understand the reason why the CEO kept writing me the ticket and why the Islington council even didn't bother to answer my letter,they have reason,but I do not give up easy and I have my point,its difficult situation and may be if I had more time I would be fighting to the end,its all that matter, if needs to,I did appeal already again and will see this time their answer,if I'm not satisfied again Ill keep fighting If its good I might pay but the %50 reduced only,any other option will mean fight to the end,anyway,nothing to loose just bit of time,but they loose their time too and they might do mistake and give me more chance,so thats it.The clear way is the proof that the CEO did it illegally and the missing photograph of the sign with the restrictions and permit zone and hours and the missing photo of my car and the ticket together and me on each photo proofs it,and on top of that the web doesn't let me to see the evidence and they do not even bother to answer my questions and the answer was NTO,the full amount,this is how they work and the facts are proofed.About the vouchers if we ignore the fact that I had one valid witch been purchased from the same council but not from me i got it for free from the resident there,the fact that I was loading or sitting in the car all the time and the fact that he start writing the ticket 10 secs after he arrived and all the photos when the ticket was issued are with me in is real,shouldn be that way I think,then what is the difference to give me a ticket while I'm driving?cause the only evidence I see it is me with my car in and out of it and one voucher pictured true a glass in some car may be mine.thats it,would you just pay £40 and forget about it?I wont but I see most of the guys here are happy to pay in that situation???!!

[Raykay]

The reason that the CEO issued the FPN was that your voucher had expired and the second one was not valid, and as such, an appeal on the grounds that you had a valid voucher is bound to fail. Photographs are not needed as proof of a contravention, it's the CEO's notes - especially if you were loading and there are no restrictions. The fact that you were in the car would not change anything.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Raykay