PCN- Bailiff pressure. Submitted TE7/TE9 and worried it may be rejected **Won**

[shazbazz]

Hello everyone!!!!.... I've just joined this forum as ive been experiencing problems with bailiffs and there is a lot of good advice on this site so I would love people to give me some advice, especially from Tomtubby.

 

1. I received a PCN on 18 March 2012, by the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead Council, My appeal was rejected and the parking team advised me to make a further appeal via NTO.

 

2. On 20 June I telephoned the LA to advise that I had not recieved the NTO and they advised me a NTO was sent to my previous address. This was because at the time I hadnt yet notified the DVLA of my current address changes. The LA advised me to change my address with the DVLA straight away, which I did imediately and they also advised me that I could still make an appeal against the NTO even though it had gone past the 28 day period due to the fact that i had not recieved it. The LA took down my current address changes over the phone and in the appeal by email to the LA I also mentioned again that the NTO had been sent to my previous address.

 

3. I did not receive any responce to my appeal from the LA and naively thought that no news was good news and I assumed that my appeal against the PCN had been accepted. Little did I know that the LA had actually not responded to my appeal and they carried on to send all further correspondance to my PCN to my old address.

 

4. The next time I heard about the PCN since appealing in June 2013 was a letter from Rundles Bailiffs dated the 7 November demanding 95.44 for an unpaid parking charge. I explained to Rundles that there had been a mistake and that the PCN was sent to my old address. There reply was that they could not hold off any action against me as a warrant had been issued against me by the TEC.

 

5. I telephoned Windsor council to ask for advice and they advised me that the matter would be passed on to the relevant department.

 

6. On the 20 Dec 2013, I recieved a 2nd letter from Rundles saying they have been trying to contact me regarding the warrant but I had only received one other letter which was the first i had received from them on 7 November.....I did not contact Rundles to discuss this matter with them as decided there was no point as they would just demand the debt be paid, so I telephoned the Windsor parking team again and explained the situtaion to them AGAIN!! and I asked them what I should do regarding this matter. I spoke to about four different people who all gave me conflicting advice on what to do. I then sent an email to the parking team explaining the situation.

 

7. To date I have not received a responce from the windsor council.

 

8. On the 14 March 2013 I recieved a letter from Rundles in my absence demanding 450.64 and a note was left on my car saying that my vehicle has been imobilised and not to move the vehicle. As I was not present when the bailiffs came to my house, I later learned from one of my housemates, as I live in a shared house, that my car had been clamped at 8am but they must have taken the clamp off my car as later it was gone. I spoke to Rundles later that day pleading with them not to come to tow away my car as they were threatening to come back later that day to tow it away. They have admitted clamping the car and also removing the clamp too.

 

9. I went to the CAD for advice on the 14 March and they advised me to phone the national debt line who advised me to send a complaint letter to the council and also to send a letter to Rundles to put the matter on hold, which they keep refusing to do. I sent off both letters on that day.

 

10. I asked Rundles in writing why they have iliegally clamped my car to which they replied it was legal due to the warrant.

 

11. After many emails later to Rundles, they have agreed to put my account on hold for 1 week until the 4 April, which is today, so I am scared that they will be coming to tow my car anytime and live in fear of this. I emailed Rundles today informing them I have sent off TE7 and TE9 froms to the TEC and to hold off further action, which I am sure they will refuse to do. I also explained that I am awaiting a responce from the Windsor LA regarding my formal complaint to them.

 

12. Since 14 March I have been reading lots of forums on this website regarding bailiffs etc and decided to send a TE7 and TE9 to the TEC, which I posted to them 2 days ago on the 2 April, but I fear after reading one of the forums on here that my TE7 will be rejected due to it been sent too late, but if I had known in the beginning back when I received the first bailiff letter that all I needed to do was to send a TE7 and TE9, I would have done that in the first place. I phoned the council up straight away about this matter on the 7 November and they gave me the wrong advice on what to do and it wouldnt of got this far if they had advised me correctly, but none of them seem to know what they are doing there!!!!!

 

I wish I had known about this forum before now! Is it too late for my TE7 to be accepeted????

 

I would greatly appreciate any advice especially from Tomtubby!!!

[sir_gilmour]

Hello shazbazz, welcome to the CAG.

 

Enjoy your visit, but take some time to look around the forum and understand where everything is.

 

It can seem confusing at first but you will start to find your way round and to understand what a helpful community we are.

 

You haven't received any replies to your post yet. Try posting your query again in a relevant sub-foum. You will get the help and support you need there.

[ploddertom]

Moved to Bailiff Forum

[shazbazz]

hello sir_gilmour

 

thankyou so much for your advice and for welcoming me to the site. I am finding it a bit confusing and I'm a bit rubbish when it comes to I.T and computers. How do I find the sub-foum?

[IdaInFife]

Shaz

 

ploddertom has moved your thread to the appropriate forum

[shazbazz]

thankyou very much for doing that! that has really helped me a lot as I feel a bit lost at the moment. and thankyou to everyone you are all great

[Jamberson]

TE7 and TE9 is absolutely the right way to go. Whether it is accepted or not, no-one can say. It won't be rejected because it is too late - you have filed an out of time one, so that's accounted for.

 

It is not too late for it to be accepted - but the council has discretion on the matter, and may or may not choose to accept it. If they do not, you can challenge their decision (which will mean a brief, informal court appointment), which costs about £80, but which you can charge costs for if you win.

 

If you want me (or anyone) to take a complete guess at what they will do, can you advise which boxes you ticked, and what you wrote on each form? And did you provide any supporting details, eg the date you moved house?

[shazbazz]

I ticked the boxes that I never receieved the NTO. On the TE7 I wrote that I never received the NTO and that on 20 June I telephoned the council to advise that I had not recieved the NTO. The council advised me that an NTO was sent on 3 may 2012 to the address registered with the DVLA and to update my address wit the DVLA which I did imediatley. The council advised me to email the parking department to appeal against the NTO even though it had gone over the 28 day period to appeal. The council said I could still make a late appeal as the NTO had been sent to my old address. I followed this advice. I have had no responce from the council regarding my appeal. The next time I heard anything was a letter from a Bailiff.

[shazbazz]

I ticked the boxes that I never receieved the NTO. On the TE7 I wrote that I never received the NTO and that on 20 June I telephoned the council to advise that I had not recieved the NTO. The council advised me that an NTO was sent on 3 may 2012 to the address registered with the DVLA and to update my address wit the DVLA which I did imediatley. The council advised me to email the parking department to appeal against the NTO even though it had gone over the 28 day period to appeal. The council said I could still make a late appeal as the NTO had been sent to my old address. I followed this advice. I have had no responce from the council regarding my appeal. The next time I heard anything was a letter from a Bailiff.

 

[shazbazz]

I didnt provide any supporting documents but I moved house in February 2012 and didnt change my address with the DVLA until June 2012. I had forgotton to update my address with the DVLA, which was not a very good idea! I reveieved the PCN in March 2012, which I appealed and was rejected. The council advised i could make a further appeal via NTO, which I thought i would give a go! I didnt think there would be any harm to at least try. The NTO was sent out to my old address in May 2012. I telephoned the council on 20 June wondering were the NTO was and they advised me it was sent to the address with the DVLA. I had forgotton to change my address details with the DVLA, but i did so in June and I notified the council of this on June 20th and I asked them what should I do as the NTO was sent out to my old address on the 5 May 2012 which I had not received and you only get 28 days to appeal against this. When i phoned the council wondering were my NTO was it was already too late to appeal against the NTO. They advised me I would still be allowed to appeal against the pcn due to the NTO been sent to my old address even though the 28 day deadline had passed. They told me to email the parking team to appeal. I have not heard any responce until bailiffs sent me a letter on 7 november. During the time between June 2012 and & November I had not heard anything, I naievly thought that the council must had accepted my appeal. I didnt realise they had just ignored it and carried on sending further correspondance regarding payment of the PCN to my old address. I only learnt this when i received a letter from the Bailiffs on the 7 November as I phoned the council that day to ask why they had sent the bailiffs on to me. They told me that they had sent lots of letters regarding the PCN asking for payment but I had no idea about this as I had moved address. I did inform the council of my current address on 20 June 2012 by telephone and by email and when i made my first appeal against the PCN I gave my current address changes also. I gave my current address 3 times to the council, but regardless of that they continued to send mail to my old address even after i'd told them they have the wrong address ???? On the 7 November the council didnt advice me what to do in order to move forward they simply said they would pass the matter on to the relevant department. If the council had advised me at that point to submitt a TE7, I could have avoided the situtation going this far.

[shazbazz]

thanks v much

[shazbazz]

i thought it was too late as i received a bailiff regarding the court order for pcn letter on 7 November 2012 and I sent the te7 on the 2 April 2013. . . .I had no idea what a te7 from was until a few days ago when reading about it on these forums.

[tomtubby]

shabazz you posted a long question late last night/early this morning. I am having difficulty reading it. Could you please repost it but this time break it down into paragraphs.

 

I can certainly respond. You have made one BIG mistake and that is to send a TE7 & TE9 to TEC BY POST. Noboy should ever do this. the form MUST be sent by email.

 

I can help but I would say the local authority could be IN TROUBLE !!!!

[brassnecked]

Might be worth emailing the forms as well, but looking at the circumstances, as rthey have been provided with the correct address on multiple occasions, and still sent them to the old address they are up the creek imho

[tomtubby]

The LA have a serious problem indeed !!

 

 

I look forward to hearing back from shazbazz and I can then explain in more detail.

[shazbazz]

i shall email the TE7 and TE9 aswell then

[shazbazz]

Dear Tomtubby,

Thankyou so much for your responce!!!!

Apoligies for it been very long winded, but I am just trying to tell the whole story as this problem has been on going for nearly a year now......

I hope this makes sense :-

1. I received a pcn on 18 March 2012, by the Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead Council, My original appeal was rejected and the parking team advised me I could a further appeal via NTO. I figured it couldnt harm me to at least try and then if I was unsuccesfull I would have just paid the PCN. At this time the LA had my current and correct address. Also at the time I had recently moved but had not updated my address with the DVLA. I wasnt aware that the NTO would be sent to the address registered with the DVLA.

 

2. On 20 June I telephoned the LA to advise that I had not recieved the NTO and they advised me a NTO was sent to my previous address. This was because at the time I hadnt yet notified the DVLA of my current address changes. The LA advised me to change my address with the DVLA straight away, which I did imediately and they also advised me that I could still make an appeal against the NTO even though it had gone past the 28 day period due to the fact that i had not recieved it. The LA took down my current address changes over the phone ( even thought they already had my address) and in the appeal by email to the LA I also mentioned again that the NTO had been sent to my previous address.

 

3. I did not receive any responce to this further appeal from the LA and naively thought that no news was good news and I assumed that my appeal against the PCN had been accepted. Little did I know that the LA had actually not responded to my appeal and they carried on to send all further correspondance to my PCN to my old address.

 

4. The next time I heard about the PCN since appealing in June 2013 was a letter from Rundles bailiffs dated the 7 November demanding

£95.44 for an unpaid parking charge. I explained to Rundles that there had been a mistake and that the PCN was sent to my old address. There reply was that they could not hold off any action against me as a warrant had been issued against me by the TEC.

 

5. I telephoned Windsor council to ask for advice and they advised me that the matter would be passed on to the relevant department. ....At this point it might have been a good idea for the council to have advised me to fill out a TE7, but they didnt!!!!!!! and I didnt even know what a TE7 form was back then...now I do!!!!!

 

6. On the 20 Dec 2013, I recieved a 2nd letter from Rundles saying they have been trying to contact me regarding the warrant but I had only received one other letter from them on 7 November.....I did not contact Rundles to discuss this matter with them as decided there was no point as they would just demand the debt be paid, so I telephoned the Windsor parking team again and explained the situtaion to them AGAIN!! and I asked them what I should do regarding this matter. I spoke to about four different people who all gave me conflicting advice on what to do. I then sent an email to the parking team explaining the situation.

 

7. To date I have not received a responce from the windsor council.

 

8. On the 14 March 2013 I recieved a letter from Rundles in my absence demanding £450.64 and a note was left on my car saying that my vehicle has been imobilised and not to move the vehicle. As I was not present when the bailiffs came to my house, I later learned from one of my housemates, as I live in a shared house, that my car had been clamped at 8am but they must have taken the clamp off my car as later it was gone. I spoke to Rundles later that day pleading with them not to come to tow away my car as they were threatening to come back later that day to tow it away. They have admitted clamping the car and also removing the clamp too. Also the bailiff that clamped my car, I suspect he was sub contracted out as his name which appeaars on the certificated register for bailiffs says that he works for a different company, so although Rundles had a warrant, i dont know if he had a warrant. A different certified bailiff was dealing with me before hand. Also I had never even spoke to any baliffs previously in person, so I dont know if they are allowed to clamp a car without first making a levy and I was never present for any levy.

 

9. I went to the CAD for advice on the 14 March and they advised me to phone the national debt line who advised me to send a complaint letter to the council and also to send a letter to Rundles to put the matter on hold, which they keep refusing to do. I sent off both letters on that day. I asked Rundles in writing why they have iliegally clamped my car to which they replied it was legal due to the warrant.

 

11. After many emails later to Rundles, they have agreed to put my account on hold for 1 week until the 4 April, which was yesterday, so I am scared that they will be coming to tow my car anytime and live in fear of this. I have hiden my car!!!!! I emailed Rundles yesterday informing them I have sent off TE7 and TE9 froms to the TEC and to hold off further action, which I am sure they will refuse to do. I also explained that I am awaiting a responce from the Windsor LA regarding my formal complaint to them.

 

12. Since 14 March I have been reading lots of forums on this website regarding bailiffs etc and decided to send a TE7 and TE9 to the TEC, which I posted to them 3 days ago on the 2 April, but I fear after reading one of the forums on here that my TE7 will be rejected due to it been sent too late as it has already gone past 36 days when i had the first visit on 7 Nov from the bailiffs. IF I had known in the beginning back when I received the first bailiff letter that all I needed to do was to send a TE7 and TE9, I would have done that in the first place. I phoned the council up straight away about this matter on the 7 November and they gave me the wrong advice on what to do and it wouldnt of got this far if they had advised me correctly, but none of them seem to know what they are doing there!!!!!

 

I wish I had known about this forum before now! Is it too late for my TE7 to be accepeted????

Also about sending the TE7 by post been a mistake......should i email it aswell? If so, do I need to write in the box exactly the same or can i change or add things as I wish that I had worded it differntly.

 

 

 

[shazbazz]

when I phoned the LA on the 20 December 2012 there attitude was that the blame was on as I had been slow updating my address with the DVLA, (4 months precisly) which resulted in the NTO been sent to my old address, but I did phone them up to explain that they had my wrong address on the 20 June 2012. I also changed my address with the dvla on 20 june 2012 and notifoed the council of my address over the phone. They again blamed me because they told me address changes cannot be made over the phone but they did not make me aware of this in the phone call. I also emalied the LA to tell them they had sent NTO to my old address and they didnt even achnoledge this email.... well only by way of an automated email, they didnt respond and they kept on sending the parking fine letters to my old address, which I had no knowledge of at the time.

 

I have already posted a letter making a formal complaint to the LA but they have still not responded and Im not gonna hold my breath. I do not know the best way to move forward regarding this. The bailiffs just keep harassing me and and they will probably add more extortionate fees on top of what is already 450.64. Ive had to hide my car incase they come to tow it away, which they have threatened to do. The council keep ignoring me and now I fear my TE7 form will be rejected. I will take your advice and email the te7 and te9 but i cant remeber my exact wording on the form that i posted to them, does it need to be my exact same words as the one I posted to them?

[tomtubby]

Thank you for your detailed response. The problem with visiting different forums is that you will be getting conflicting advice. In particular if you are posting about Out of Time witness statements which very few people have knowledge about. Thankfully, you have come to the right forum!!

 

The advice that you received about the 35 days is wrong. This ONLY applies when submitting an IN TIME application which would normally be after receiving an Order for Recovery. If you had not received an OFR or were submitting an application later than 35 days then you will need to complete an OUT OF TIME witness statement which is what you have done. The mistake that you have made is that you POSTED the form to TEC. I would never ever suggest that this is done as OUT of TIME witness statements are almost always submitted once a bailiff has been instructed and therefore, the application need to get the TEC very quickly.

 

If an complete OTT is emailed to TEC before 4pm it is processed by them on the same day and TEC will then advise the local authority to CEASE all enforcement ( CPR 75...para 8.1).

 

I would assume that you had not retained a copy of the application. If you have a copy I would urge you to scan and email it to TEC over the weekend so that it can be processed on Monday. In any event, I would suggest that you call TEC on Monday around midday to ask whether they have received the application. If not, please post back and help can be given to you to get another copy over to TEC.

 

Your address changed last year and you correctly advised DVLA. There is nothing wrong with advising DVLA 4 months after moving. The most important point being that you advised DVLA !!

 

Now.....why is the local at fault !!! That is simple one to answer. It would seem that they have failed to consider the Local Government Ombudsman's report dated 18th July 2011 against....London Borough of Bexley !!! The link to the full report is here:

 

http://www.lgo.org.uk//GetAsset.aspx?id=fAAxADQAMgAyAHwAfABGAGEAbABzAGUAfAB8ADAAfAA1

 

 

In this particular report, the LGO made a finding of maladministration as they failed to update their records when advised of a new address and most seriously the Ombudsman ruled that London Borough of Bexley:

 

"Did not consider the discretion available to it at any stage in the recovery process" and the "ability to consider its discretion is fetter by its rigid automated recovery process and that this was MALADMINISTRATION"

 

I would also suggest that you ask the local authority on Monday whether the warrant is still addressed to the previous address. If so......the council could have problems. Please let me know on Monday !!

 

Lastly, when you speak with the local authority ensure that you provide them with a copy of the following document !!

 

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/Library/Execution%20of%20Warrant%20Information%20Note%20f%20doc.pdf

[Jamberson]

The TE7 is your opportunity to explain why the TE9 was not submitted in the normal time frames (ie, before the bailiff was instructed). On the TE7 you need to explain - something like you moved house on such-and-such a date and therefore received no correspondence on the matter until the bailiff contacted you.

 

If you are going to email the forms, then make sure you include information like this on the TE7, so that they understand why it is late in. If possible, attach something which proves the dates. If they don't believe you, and thnk you just ignored the matter, they will almost certainly reject the application, so it's very important that you do this.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Jamberson

[shazbazz]

Dear Tomtubby,

 

Thankyou for your advice!!!!..... I am thrilled to hear from you!!!!!!...... I have been reading a lot of your advice on the forums regarding bailiffs etc on this brilliant forum and that is why I was hoping to be able to speak to you in particular and now that I have it is like a dream come true!!! I have been very impressed by you and have used your advice from various threads simular to my situation, which has been extreemly interesting, informative and helpfull. Any advice on here from anybody attall will and has been greatly appreciated!!!! Everybody has been so welcoming and helpfull since I joined this forum!!!!!......... Since receiving an attendance notice from the bailiffs and when they clamped my car, my life has been a living nightmare, so this forum has been a life saver!!!!!!!! I really appreciate people taking the time out to give me advice. Thankyou everybody so much!!!!!!!!!

 

I will follow your advice Tomtubby and I will phone the TEC on Monday to see if they have recieved my TE7/TE9 forms and I will speak to the LA also. In the meantime I am scared the bailiffs will come back to try to tow my car away or try to enter my house. I will definatly not let them into my house, but I cant speak for the rest of my housemates as I live in a shared house. I have already hidden my car to a random street far away from my house, which I am very anxious and worried about as I fear something will happen to my car as I hope that I havent ****ed anyone off by parking my car on their street. Its not on yellow lines or anything but I'm worried my car may be subjected to criminal damage. I have written to the bailiffs to inform them that Ive sent off the TE7/TE9 forms but Ive got no proof of this as I didnt photocopy the forms before I posted them.

 

If I am correct then once an out of time TE7/TE9 is in progress then all enforcement should cease. Does that mean that it would be ilegal for the bailiffs to carry on pursuing this debt from me and if so will that even deter them as I very much doubt it. Do they need proof that Ive sent off a TE7. What should I do about the bailiffs in the meantime???? Do you think I should keep my car hidden and risk it been subjected to criminal damage?????

[shazbazz]

Thankyou so much for your response Jamberson!!! its greatly appreciated!!!

 

Unfortunatly I have already sent the TE7/TE9 forms off on 2nd April 2013 by post which I understand should have actually been emailled rather than sent by post. I will be phoning the TEC on Monday to find out if they have received my TE7/TE9 yet. I did not send anything along with the TE7 to prove about my address changes, but I can certainly forward something on to them if that will help or is it too late for that now as I have already posted the TE7 with no supporting evidence. However along with the fact that the NTO and all other correspondence since NTO was sent to my old address, I had actually informed the LA of my current address (and the DVLA) on many occasions around the time of which the NTO was sent out to me, by way of telephone and email but they carried on using my old address!!!! Therefore that is the main reason why I did not receive majority of corespondence regarding PCN, which I explained on my TE7 form. I have proof by means of email to the LA that I informed them of my address details and also by means of a itemised mobile phone bill of the phone call when informing the LA of my current address. I could also forward this supporting evidence to the TEC if it is not too late now?????

 

I look forward to hearing back from you

[tomtubby]

Thank you for your kind words....it is very much appreciated.

 

Have you read the LGO report?

 

From Monday evening you will be fine to drive your car but I would stress to you that you should keep the car well out of the way until then. Once the OTT has been processed on Monday all enforce MUST cease by law. The bailiff would be acting unlawfully if he continued to enforce the warrant.

 

Call TEC on Monday and if they have not processed your application it may be better to complete a new form with supporting docs to confirm that you had advised DVLA and the LA of the change of address etc. Post back Monday after you speak to TEC.

 

PS: When you call TEC ignore the prompts on the phone and wait to speak with an operator.

[shazbazz]

Thankyou tomtubby, I will read the LGO report ASAP

 

Say the TEC have received my TE7/TE9,do you think I should still forward on supporting documents? When sending proof of my address etc, how would I go about getting docs to prove the date I changed my address with the DVLA? Do I need to contact the DVLA for this?

[shazbazz]

Re: bailiffs,

 

for instance from Monday evening, when the TEC have receieved my TE7/TE9....,what if a bailff did try to recover debts from me, what should I do in this situation? What if the Bailiffs just come to my house when I'm not in and tow away my car?