Going to write F&F offer letters - should I state that I'm living overseas?

[robgreen]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm new to this site, I've read up on a lot of posts and it seems like a great community. After a few years of making small payments, missing payments, ignoring letters from creditors (the usual stuff eh), I've decided to write to them all making F&F offers. I've been living in U.S. for the last 2.5 years, but have had the letters emailed to me through a relative.

 

To cut a long story short, I'm pretty broke and currently unemployed. I'm a UK citizen but am currently a U.S. resident. To be clear, I don't want - nor has it ever been my intention - to abandon my debts and live out here until the 6 year period is up. I came over with the best intentions of getting a high salary and everything working itself out, but that unfortunately hasn't ended up happening. Big surprise eh!

 

I've got 10K of debt (phew, that feels good to say it out loud, so to speak), and like most people on here once I get a good paying job I just want to get on with my life, without being burdened with a pile of debt. A family member has offered to help me settle the debts, but they only have a limited amount, so I'm going to make F&F offers to all of the creditors.

 

My question is - should I state in my letters that I am residing overseas? And if so, how should I word it? On one hand, I don't want to be deceitful in making out that I'm living in UK (although that's what I have been doing for simplicity's sake). On the other hand, I really don't want them to demand my US address / phone number / whatever for communicating with me. Is this something they even care about? On another note, will it help my chances of bartering with them if I say that I'm overseas? i.e. a broke, jobless guy who has been in default for the last 2-3 years and isn't even residing in UK might make them think "We'll take what we can get".

 

I don't know...what does everyone think?

 

Cheers

Rob

[unclebulgaria67]

Do you know whether creditors have obtained CCJ's in your absence ?

 

What debts are these ? Can you list what type they are, roughly how much and approx when you last made a payment. Also do you know who currently owns the debts. It might be useful to know, as some companies may be easier to negotiate F&F offer with, if this is the best option.

 

If there are no CCJ's, yes it might be an idea to let creditors know your US address. You can expect to be hassled for payment, but they cannot do much. If they know you are outside of the UK, they would then not be able to apply for a CCJ in the UK and therefore they could not look to transfer to a US court, if that was a viable option. It would appear that creditors have tried to enforce in the US courts without success. This previous thread may be worth reading.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?293056-I-just-got-a-summons-from-a-US-court-for-a-UK-credit-card-debt-please-help-!-**case-dismissed**

 

In your situation, I don't think I would be borrowing any money from friends/relatives to make F&F offers. I would possibly write to them, just letting them know you are a resident of the US and have no plans to return. That you are currently suffering from financial issues, as you are unemployed. That you cannot currently meet any commitments with creditors and that you will be back in contact as soon as your situation changes. Then see how they respond.

[robgreen]

Thanks for your advice. I haven't had any CCJs put against me. I've had letters about intended legal proceedings, doorstep collectors and the like.

 

To give more of a background on my debt - I have 5 creditors, consisting of 4 credit cards and one loan, all unsecured. I don't have a UK home, rather a room at my folks house for when I visit. No assets of any value. All but one of my debts have gone into default, with the debt amount frozen and no interest. One of the credit cards (Lloyds TSB) was converted into something where it's about 5% interest and I make regular payments, which I stopped doing about 6 months ago. At the time, someone I spoke to on the phone convinced me it was a great idea because it stops my account from going into default.

 

The loan and one of the credit cards have been sold to CCAs. The other two credit cards are being handled by CCAs on their behalf. I've been made an offer of 20% for full & final payment by a CCA that purchased the loan. Do you think I should take this?

 

I really don't want to give any creditors my U.S. address. I've read a post from someone saying that they got a court order by a sheriff or something. I know that they might not be able to legally pursue anything, but honestly even if it's a bluff I don't want even a letter arriving here. Is there any way I can tell them I live overseas without saying "Here's my mailing address, send someone round if you like?". I mean, there's also the issue of time. If we all of a sudden start communicating by post from England to America, it will go on forever. Now I'm focused on the task, I want to try and get all of this sorted and done with as soon as possible.

 

Another option - could a family member write to them saying that I live overseas? The only risk I see with that is pushing them into a corner and forcing them to make a move, whatever that might be. I also don't want my creditors to become dormant monsters e.g. let's say that a family member writes to them all asking to stop pursuing my debt. Best case scenario the letters will probably stop coming, but they won't write to say "OK, debt cancelled.". Then in a year or two I might decide to return to live in England. Then all of a sudden something comes back to life in my credit file and awakens the monster, and I get hit with CCJs. This situation could also happen if I try and play any "I'm overseas so you can't get me - ha!" game with them.

 

Really, I just want to act like a no-hoper that is still nonetheless trying to sort things out and offer a token amount to settle. I've made payments to them as recently as 6-9 months ago, so I'd have to see all of this out for another 5 years, which I really don't want to do. If I decide to stay over here in U.S., I want it to be for the right reasons, not because of hiding from debt.

 

What do you (or anyone else) think?

 

Thanks a lot for the help, I really appreciate it.

Rob

[unclebulgaria67]

You could write to them via the UK address. Get your folks to post the letter on your behalf. The letter could just explain that you are resident in the US and about your circumstances, without giving your addess. You can say that you are currently between addresses, so have got UK relatives to post the letter. An F&F offer of 20% of the debts value might be acceptable. I think I have read that LTSB are not really that open to F&F offers.

 

A DCA is more likely to accept an F&F offer, particularly if you are permanently abroad. With Banks, they will want to write off the full value of the debt against tax and then sell on the debt for whatever they can achieve. You can try making F&F offers to the Banks, if they still own the debts, but if not accepted, then you might have to wait until a DCA amenable to a deal.

 

You should be aware that some creditors/DCA's might not believe you are outside of the UK and send doorstep collectors to your folks home to make enquiries. You should warn your folks of this and that these people are just enquiry agents, without any powers. That they should just say you are resident in the US.

[robgreen]

Thanks again for your help. Are you saying that I should write letters to them with my name, UK address etc, and get my folks to send them? Assuming that they believe me (I'm not too worried about this because if ever needed I can prove that I am genuinely living in U.S.), will that make it so they cannot get a CCJ put against me? Or could they argue that I am still able to be contacted via a UK address therefore I have UK ties therefore I'm still under UK jurisdiction therefore I can be served a CCJ? Is the law concrete enough that I can still contact them via a UK address? If so, then I think I will definitely go down that route, it seems like a win-win-win scenario. And knowing that I can halt any chance of a CCJ being filed will give me immense piece of mind.

 

I'm not worried about people showing up at my folks doorstep. They know the situation and my dad would just tell them to sod off.

 

On another note - I wrote to my creditors a year-ish ago asking for payment-plan options (this is just after my accounts defaulted), and one of them wrote back saying that they wasn't able to consider it because the letter was not signed. Can they do this? I'm really wary of signing letters now, because if I understand it rightly it gives them written proof that you acknowledge the debt, with absolutely no advantages to doing so. Is this right? I don't want to play the 6-year game, but I at least want them to think that option might be on the table e.g. "I no longer reside in UK and don't know when I will again". If I start signing all my letters, they'll know that they've got me by the danglies and keep that 6 year timer ticking. Or am I just getting paranoid? If a letter is unsigned, can they still count it as 'written acknowledgement'? To sum it up - if they ask for the letters to be signed - what do I do?

 

Cheers again, your advice is really helping me out.

Rob

 

p.s. do you think I should accept the 20% offer made by the CCA that purchased the loan debt? I've heard that if a debt is sold, a CCA gets it for pennies. If they've offered 20% right off the bat (this is 20% of ~£2000 therefore I pay ~£400 to settle), do you think they could accept 10%? Or am I being cheeky? I don't want to risk them taking the offer off the table.

Edited April 2, 2013 by robgreen
added a postscript

[unclebulgaria67]

For them to apply for a CCJ, you need to reside in the UK, not just a postal address. But as I said, unless you really show that you are in resident in the US, they might not believe you and just apply for a CCJ anyway. Then you have the hassle of dealing with it and your folks possibly being bothered by people trying to collect the debt.

 

If you want creditors to action anything from a letter, then yes I would agree with them, that they need your signature. Without it, your letter could have come from any Tom, Dick or Harry.

 

My advice is to write to all of your creditors with your US address telling them what the score is and trying to enforce a UK debt there would be almost impossible. Second best, is a letter via your parents address, hoping they believe you are in the US and not hiding at your parents house. The chances are that a DCA will just plough on, if you have a UK postal address showing and have not proved you are resident in the US.

 

If you make F&F offers or write advising them that you will pay the debt when you can, you will be admitting to the debt (limitations act), so will be re-setting the clock to 6 years, if they rejected any offer you made.

 

It is now over to you to make a choice about what you do.

[robgreen]

Thanks again for your help. I think I'll start off making F&F offers from my folks UK address saying that I'm residing overseas. I mean, I think the fact that I'm making offers, trying to make-good on the debt, will stop them from filing CCJs. It would be a hassle to get CCJs, but if I've told them in writing that I'm no longer residing in UK, and I can back it up, then in the end they would surely be at fault for filing the CCJs. I surely wouldn't have to be summoned back to England just to turn up in a courtroom with documents and say "See, I told you I wasn't in the UK"?

 

To be honest, I can't see how I'd prove through mail how I'd be living in the U.S. anyway. Certainly, an addressed letter wouldn't be proof, because I could easily have a friend out here do it. What would they really accept as proof, a tax return? Or a payslip? They're not the kind of things I'd sent through the post anyway, and certainly not to a DCA.

 

Sound like a plan?

 

Thanks again!

Rob

 

p.s. is there any way to make F&F offers, without them being regarded as 'official communication' i.e. to avoid restarting the 6 year timer? I've heard of some people drafting letters in the vein of "Whilst I do not acknowledge this debt as my own, I am the person ([name]) you are referring to and I wish to make an offer to settle." Is anything like this possible?

[dx100uk]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm new to this site, I've read up on a lot of posts and it seems like a great community. After a few years of making small payments, missing payments, ignoring letters from creditors (the usual stuff eh), I've decided to write to them all making F&F offers. I've been living in U.S. for the last 2.5 years, but have had the letters emailed to me through a relative.

 

To cut a long story short, I'm pretty broke and currently unemployed. I'm a UK citizen but am currently a U.S. resident. To be clear, I don't want - nor has it ever been my intention - to abandon my debts and live out here until the 6 year period is up. I came over with the best intentions of getting a high salary and everything working itself out, but that unfortunately hasn't ended up happening. Big surprise eh!

 

I've got 10K of debt (phew, that feels good to say it out loud, so to speak), and like most people on here once I get a good paying job I just want to get on with my life, without being burdened with a pile of debt. A family member has offered to help me settle the debts, but they only have a limited amount, so I'm going to make F&F offers to all of the creditors.

 

My question is - should I state in my letters that I am residing overseas? And if so, how should I word it? On one hand, I don't want to be deceitful in making out that I'm living in UK (although that's what I have been doing for simplicity's sake). On the other hand, I really don't want them to demand my US address / phone number / whatever for communicating with me. Is this something they even care about? On another note, will it help my chances of bartering with them if I say that I'm overseas? i.e. a broke, jobless guy who has been in default for the last 2-3 years and isn't even residing in UK might make them think "We'll take what we can get".

 

I don't know...what does everyone think?

 

Cheers

Rob

 

are you ever going to return within 6yrs of leaving

 

if not

 

why pay them at all?

 

dx

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks again for your help. I think I'll start off making F&F offers from my folks UK address saying that I'm residing overseas. I mean, I think the fact that I'm making offers, trying to make-good on the debt, will stop them from filing CCJs. It would be a hassle to get CCJs, but if I've told them in writing that I'm no longer residing in UK, and I can back it up, then in the end they would surely be at fault for filing the CCJs. I surely wouldn't have to be summoned back to England just to turn up in a courtroom with documents and say "See, I told you I wasn't in the UK"?

 

To be honest, I can't see how I'd prove through mail how I'd be living in the U.S. anyway. Certainly, an addressed letter wouldn't be proof, because I could easily have a friend out here do it. What would they really accept as proof, a tax return? Or a payslip? They're not the kind of things I'd sent through the post anyway, and certainly not to a DCA.

 

Sound like a plan?

 

Thanks again!

Rob

 

p.s. is there any way to make F&F offers, without them being regarded as 'official communication' i.e. to avoid restarting the 6 year timer? I've heard of some people drafting letters in the vein of "Whilst I do not acknowledge this debt as my own, I am the person ([name]) you are referring to and I wish to make an offer to settle." Is anything like this possible?

 

This is all up to you. I think you are assuming that a DCA would act in a logical systematic way, but they don't. All they receive is a spreadsheet with details of loads of debts, with one line being yours. Then using searches including reference to credit reference agencies, they write to whatever address can be found for you. If no original creditor has ever noted your credit record as 'gone away' or 'overseas' or however they would note a foreign address, then you risk at some point being taken to court in your absence.

 

You can send a letter be international recorded, but yes it does not totally prove you are resident abroad. But any debt collector/creditor should note this information and at least respond, if it appears genuine. I presume you have some form of residency permit showing you are resident in the US. You could send them a copy.

 

If you have sanctioned communications via a parents address, they may take this as permission to contact this address over an extended period. If they refused any reasonable F&F offer, DCA's could be contacting your parents address for many years to come. Your parents might start to get fed up of the phone calls, letters and possible doorstep visits. My address was used for a relative gone abroad in similar circumstances and it was a pain in the *ss.

 

So having thought about this, I would think communicating via a parents UK address is not a good idea.

 

Send letters explaining your circumstances from your US address, by recorded delivery. ( Don't make any F&F offers until you have received confirmation that they have noted you are abroad and don't admit to the debt. Just state your current circumstances ) Only once you have reeceived acknowledgement letters, should you consider making F&F offers.

 

or

 

As DX suggests you could just not pay them at all, if you will not be returning, until the debts are statute barred.

[robgreen]

Thanks to you both for your advice. Just to firstly respond to DX's advice,

to be honest I don't know what I'll be doing for the next 6 years.

I mean, I could end up staying over here for the duration, but I don't know. I certainly don't want to 'rely' on that, to sort everything out, if you will. This is why I want to somehow write to them without it keeping the 6year timer running. Maybe there's a special thread on this topic, or I could start one especially for it.

 

I mean, like most people my debt accumulated through hard times, and I just want to know that worst case scenario - after 6 years it'll be over. I want to be reasonable with them, but if some creditors are refusing to budge unless I give them 100%, I want to at least know that every time they refuse, time is passing by and the noose around my neck is getting looser.

 

00unclebulgaria67, thanks again for your continued help. I'm going to both shelve and take on board your latest advice. I'm going to first of all write to them from my UK address, stating my situation, that I live overseas, and telling them that they can write to me at this UK address but that they don't have permission to phone or turn up in person. I'll tell that this is my parents address, and that I do not own the property, reside there or have any assets there. I'll state that I give permission for this address to be used for written communication only.

 

Once I have done those letters - let's call this 'Round 1' - I'll then wait for their replies. Upon their replies, I'll then write back ('round 2') again from my folks UK address and say in the letters 'Thank your for your reply to my letter dated [date], therefore acknowledging my circumstances and requests...'. That way, by 'Round 2' I will have proof that I have notified my creditors of my circumstances & requests, and that they have received those letters. I mean, no matter what they say in their responses to the 'Round 1' letters, the fact that they have replied will prove that they have read the letter. So, if later on they threaten to turn up in person, or call, or place a CCJ, I'll at least have something to my defense. I know what you're saying by me simply being a line in a file, but at the moment I haven't got anything in my corner, so to speak.

 

After 'Round 2', I might then decide to write from my US address, based on various creditors' replies, or send them something that proves it, or whatever. But at least I'll have got the ball rolling in the first 2 rounds, because I'll be communicating within the UK with 1-day mail (instead of 14 day mail).

 

The only thing I'm still pondering about though is which round to make F&F offers in, and the pros/cons along with it. The last thing I want is to push them too hard in round 1, acting as some smug ex-pat who's telling them they can't get me (no offense to any ex-pats, I'm just playing devil's advocate and seeing it from their a*hole perspective). Or, if they think that I'm lying about living abroad, and there's no silver living to my letters in Round 1 (i.e. "here's an offer"), they might start to get legal before I have chance to prove that I'm overseas. If you understand my reasoning?

 

I know that you said I shouldn't make F&F offers in my first round of letters, but this was assuming that my first letters were going to be going from the US. With me deciding to kick it off from UK, would you still recommend me holding off until Round 2 or 3 or later?

 

Thanks again for all your help!

Rob

[citizenB]

Do you have any Payment protection Insurance on any of these debts. Have there been any default / penalty charges applied because of late/missed payments ? If the PPI was mis sold (and it generally was) you can reclaim the premiums and interest. If there are charges, these are penalties and unenforceable, you can reclaim those. This could help in any negotiations regarding F&f settlements.

 

How long ago were the agreements entered into ?

[robgreen]

I don't have any PPI charges on my accounts, because whenever I was offered them they just seemed wrong, so I always refused.

 

I do have some charges on my accounts, late payment amounts.

 

None of them are that significant in terms of the debt amount, except for HSBC.

 

This one is interesting, because I calculated the 'overdrawn' charges and they actually surpassed the debt.

 

I wrote to them though a few years back and was told that after the court hearings with the banks in regards to these charges,

they can't be assessed for fairness and therefore the charges will not be refunded.

I may be out of the loop with all of this, but it seemed watertight so I just let it go.

 

However,

are you saying that they can't actually enforce these charges?

 

My debt with them is about £650 and the charges (from 2002-2005) add up to £850, excluding any interest they might have accrued.

 

The debt has also been sold to a DCA.

Just for the sake of getting it off my mind,

I was consider writing to that DCA saying something in the vein of

"Look, I'm broke, overseas and jobless.

The penalty charges associated with the account are actually £200 more than what you are pursuing.

For the sake of being rid of the whole matter,

I will offer you (figure of £50, £75, £100 - I haven't decided) as a F&F offer to settle in full.

 

This is my only and final offer,

since I don't think that the debt is justifiable anyway.

Deal?"

 

I mean, honestly, I know I could probably hold my ground,

but to stop 6 more years of dealing with them,

I think I'd prefer to pay £50-£100 just to make them go away.

 

In regards to the CCAs,

I entered into most of them before 2007 I think.

I've heard from a few people that the first step is to write to them asking for the CCA,

but I wanted to leave that until later.

 

I know it might seem like reverse-logic, and maybe it is,

but I just wanted to get some official communication with them going notifying them of circumstances and making an offer.

 

That way, if they refuse the offers, at least I can prove that I told them I was abroad

and I can prove that I made an attempt to settle.

 

Because the CCA process could take forever, I

just wanted to have something 'done'.

 

I'm worried, you see, that at any moment a CCJ could arrive on my doorstep.

 

I think I'll be able to get some faster initial back-and-forth by initially not going down the CCA route.

 

Or have I just got the whole logic twisted? You need to consider that I haven't written, spoken or made payment to these creditors for the past 6-12 months.

 

Cheers.

Rob

 

p.s. sorry - I think in a few of my previous posts I might have said 'CCA' (thinking Credit Collection Agency) instead of the correct term 'DCA'.

Edited April 4, 2013 by robgreen
said CCA instead of DCA

[unclebulgaria67]

Re bank overdraft charges, read this FOS link. I think charges are only looked at, if you had been in contact with the bank regarding hardship issues.

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/faq/bank-charges.html

 

Re your last post, if you think that DCA's will comply with your letter request only to send written correspondence to your parents address, I think that is wishful thinking. My experience in dealing with a relatives debts in similar circumstances with the relative abroad, is that they often ignore letters you send them, they will phone the address continually and they may send a doorstep agent to make enquiries. You have to be aware that your parents may get pretty annoyed with this.

 

Anyway you appear very reluctant to communicate with them via your US address, so go ahead with your plan and see what happens. I would not be making any F&F offers, until they had acknowledged your first letter advising of your circumstances.

[dx100uk]

cca failure will blow any debt with a dca right out the water

 

as for the bank charges one.

 

they'll never ever go near a court if its got charges on it/ or is outweighed by PENALTY charges for fear

of a counter claim.

 

you DONT need to pay anything

just tell tem...

you wanna goto vcourt

heres mycounter claim..its ALL PENALTY charges.

 

off you go dca bugger off.

 

Dx

[robgreen]

Thanks again for the continued advice.

 

On the topic of communicating with them via my US address,

 

it's not that I'm reluctant, I just simply want to make that move after the first two rounds of communication.

 

That way, over the next few weeks (instead of months) I'll have at least 'laid a foundation',

so if something gets elevated (e.g. legal proceedings)

I can write back straight away saying

 

"Hey hey hey, I told you x, y and z - do you need any proof of what I've said... If so what?).

 

I'm not expecting them necessarily to comply with my requests, but maybe half of them will stop calling half of the time, so I'm 25% better off.

 

Or, if they do turn up on my doorstep,

my folks can tell them (confidently) that they've been given written instructions not to come to the property,

and tell them without hesitation to sod off.

 

Writing to them from the UK address initially simply provides a quick failsafe, which I'll then build off.

 

I've heard a lot of things about CCA requests, like DCAs ignoring them and such.

Or, even if you do get it, they might not hold up in court.

 

To me, it seems like a laborious route.

 

Especially since I'm no longer residing in the UK,

so filing forms with organizations and courts and such forth might not even be an option.

i.e. I might eventually hit a wall that says

"People not residing in UK may not continue."

 

I mean, doesn't the fact that I'm outside of the UK cancel out me looking into CCA agreements?

i.e. if they can't file a CCJ because I'm no longer in the UK, then surely they will know that because of the very same reason there's nothing I can do with a CCA.

 

If I understand it correctly, obtaining the CCA is done mainly to act as a bargaining chip,

and to discourage/stall legal action.

 

People don't necessarily say to a DCA "This CCA is invalid" and they respond

"OK, sorry about the hassle, we'll stop pursuing the debt."

Or have I misunderstood something?

 

Has anyone residing outside of the UK (with DCAs knowing this) ever gone down this route and had any success?

 

Thanks for all the continued advice, it's really helping me out.

Rob

Edited April 5, 2013 by robgreen
typo

[dx100uk]

suggest you read in this overseas forum.......

 

you seem to be of the opinion that DCA's have some kind of magic powers

 

they DON'T

 

all dca's are interested is obtaining MONEY

 

by whatever means, legal or otherwise

 

the failure to have an enforceable or ANY CCA / paperwork, blows them out the water , end of dead.

 

there are no rules that they adhere too

 

even without the paperwork

 

they will use ANY means to spoof money out of people.

 

you paying the debt or not will make no diff to what they do

 

they'll still turn up at addresses if they think they have found a lever to get money out of the debt.

 

the bottom line here is no matter what you do, they'll still write their letters and threats

 

if it were ME in your shoes....

 

i'd write to them stating quite clearly you emigrated to XYZ in YYYY

 

you have no intention of ever returning.

should you wish to now pursue me

come find me.

 

any legal action you take will obv be null and void.

 

work it out for yourself mr DCA

 

or otherwise simply ignore everything.

 

no doorstepper has any legal powers and most certainly cannot discuss your debt with a third party.

 

dx

[robgreen]

Cheers DX for your help again. I have thought about that, and if I knew without certainty that I would be away for 6 years, then it could be a viable option. However, I think it's more likely than not that I'll be returning to the UK to live (at least for a bit). So, for arguments sake, let's say that in 1 year's time I will return to UK for good - would you still do what you said? Like I said in a previous post, I don't want to play hardball too much because then when I return to the UK I will be awaking a dormant monster. And, in 5-6 years time, they could file CCJs or whatever, which will result in my credit file being restored in 11-12 years.

 

If you're saying that you'd still pursue the same action, assuming I'm definitely coming back in a year, then what would happen on my return to UK? I don't mean on immediate return, but the 5 years following.

 

Or, alternatively, do you not think it'd be a better idea to use the following year that I'm overseas (again, assuming I'm coming back to UK in a year indefinitely) to bargain with the DCAs, since my negotiating power will be at it's highest (broke, jobless, overseas)? I know that for the next year I'll be in a great position for bargaining, and I don't want to waste it by simply hiding under a rock being stubborn.

 

What do you think (given the 1 year hypothetical)?

 

Thanks.

Rob

[unclebulgaria67]

If you are likely to return to the UK within 6 years, then go down the route you have outlined, just writing to them advising of your position. Then see if you can negotiate an F&F to get shot of the debts. As long as they confirm that the F&F will write off the debt and your credit record will be noted as fully satisfied, then you will be in a better position when you return.

 

If you won't be returning within 6 years, then advise them you are abroad as DX advises.

 

You could make a CCA request for any credit card or loan ( does not apply to bank accounts) and see whether they can provide this. But I am not sure whether this is worth it, as debts just get passed around the system. One DCA might not find a CCA and advise you they will stop chasing. Then another DCA picks up the debt and just ploughs on. Perhaps they manage to get hold of the CCA and don't know you are abroad, so they get a CCJ by default in your absence. I think your main aim is to make sure all creditors know you are abroad and then once you have done that you could choose what you want to do, dependent on likelyhood in returning to the UK.

[robgreen]

Fantastic, I'm going to go ahead and do that. I mean, even if I can settle on 2 or 3 of the debts before I get back to UK (assuming I do), then I'll at least be part way there.

 

Everyone's been an amazing help - I really appreciate it!

 

Cheers

Rob

[robgreen]

p.s. I'll update this post to let everyone know how it unfolds!

[robgreen]

Hey everyone,

 

I'm going to write to the 5 DCAs that I owe money to making F&F offers.

They are all in default.

I haven't had contact / made payment with them for 6-12months (depending on the DCA).

 

I want to do this without acknowledging the debt,

just so I don't reset the 6 year timer.

 

My tactic isn't to simply stall them for 5ish years, because I want to get myself out of this mess as soon as possible.

 

It's rather just as a negotiating tactic, so they at least know that the clock is ticking; a bluff, if you will.

 

I'm actually living overseas in US, but plan to return to live in UK in a year (although I'm not going to tell any DCAs this).

 

I've actually gotten a lot of advice in a previous post (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387408-Going-to-write-F-amp-F-offer-letters-should-I-state-that-I-m-living-overseas) about the whole 'overseas' issue, so I don't want to go into that specifically. I mention it only because it might cause complications with me not acknowledging the debt.

 

You see,

I have been in communication via my folks UK address for the past 2-3 years.

 

So, as far as they know, I'm still residing in UK. I did this for simplicity's sake.

I have now decided to officially tell them in writing that I am residing in US,

I'm broke, jobless and unable to pay.

 

I'm going to say that a relative is able to help me out, but I will only be able to offer x %.

 

Before people say to abandon the debt - I am planning on returning to UK in a year, so that isn't an option.

 

So, to write F&F offer letters, I want to give the biggest bluff possible, if you will.

i.e. if I'm stating that "I'm no longer a resident",

"I don't know when/if I'll ever be back in UK",

and I'm also playing the 'not acknowledging' game,

then they might think "You know what, let's get what we can before this guy disappears off the radar".

 

I know, I know, I'm just a file in a system and tactics will probably make little difference.

But if they can at least make a little difference, then so be it.

 

Bluffs aside, I also want to know that no matter what happens in my future,

no matter where I'll be, the whole mess will be over in 5ish years, for better or worse.

 

The very thought of keeping that 6 year timer ticking indefinitely is keeping me up at night.

 

So, is this possible?

Or is the very act of writing to them an act of acknowledgement,

no matter whether or not I sign the letters or whatever I actually say?

Or, if there is a way to do this, will they just write back saying something along the lines of

"We can't take any offers seriously or communicate with you in regards to reaching an agreement

if you do not acknowledge the debt. Please write back acknowledging it.

As far as we're concerned, those letters did not even come from you.".

 

I figure, would a possible tactic be to say to the DCAs something in the vein of

"Although I do acknowledge that I am the person you are referencing and writing to,

I do not acknowledge the debt you are holding against me.

 

However, I would like to take care of this matter and I'm prepared to offer X % for a full & final settlement etc".

 

That way, I could sign the letters officially stating that I am indeed the person in question, but that I simply don't acknowledge the debt.

 

What does everyone think?

 

Has anyone been down this road and had any success / failures with it?

If so, will the fact that I'm overseas help or hinder me in this case?

i.e. they might that that if I'm not only saying that I'm overseas,

but also that I'm not acknowledging the debt,

that it's some sort of elaborate joke and just toss the letter in the bin.

 

Thanks everyone, I really love the community here, it's been an amazing help so far.

Rob

Edited April 5, 2013 by robgreen
typos

[renegadeimp]

How to make a f&f without acknowledging it? Thats pretty contradictory. WHy would you want to make an f&f for a debt you dont want to have responsibility for?

[dx100uk]

two threads merged

 

please keep to one thread

 

you questions have already been answered.

 

dx

[robgreen]

DX, I don't know what you mean? Yes, I briefly touched on the 'acknowledgement' issue in my previous thread, but that certainly wasn't the main focus. I even mentioned the previous thread for full disclosure. I started this thread to specifically ask people on their experience with communicating to DCAs without debt acknowledgement. Yes, on the surface, it appears contradictory; but, so are a lot of things that DCAs do.

 

I mean, let's hypothetically say that a person had a debt on their credit file that they genuinely had no idea about. And for reasons unknown, they didn't want to bother investigating it or to pursue legal action, they just wanted to pay it. That is their choice, and wouldn't they have the right to say "I don't acknowledge it but here's the money". In that situation, do you really think that a DCA is going to respond "Well, since you didn't acknowledge it we don't want your money."

 

So, since all DCAs really care about is money, is there any way to simply communicate them without debt acknowledgement. Not the lack of identity acknowledgement, but debt acknowledgement. People around the world settle out of court every day, which is settling on a figure without acknowledging.

 

So, does anyone have either any experience or any knowledge of law to shed some light on this issue?

 

Cheers again for everyone's help!

Rob

[renegadeimp]

People around the world settle out of court every day, which is settling on a figure without acknowledging.

 

 

Nope. It isnt.