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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Rossendales Bailiff Council Tax*** account returned to council***RESULT!!


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The goods listed will not cover the debt the levy has been done for the financial gain to the bailiffs

 

The levy will be classed as invalid

Formal complaint to the council who are responsible for the bailiffs copy in local MP

 

keep things formal in writing no point in telephone calls with the council

If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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Once a levy fee has been applied, the only fees which can be added are either a fee for an actual removal or a fee for attending to remove where no removal takes place. As I see it the fee on 23rd January of £110 can only be the fee for attending to remove where a removal did not take place (that could have been at the old address). They cannot charge £24.50 today (which is the value of a first visit fee for attending to levy where a levy does not take place).

 

You cannot avoid paying the balance. If you pay direct, the Regulations clearly state that any part payment made against a liability order must first pay the [bailiff] fees. If the council accept your payment against this debt, it must, by law pay the bailiff fees and the balance is always the original debt/arrears. The post regarding allocation is not relevant.

 

Can we clear this one up then move on as this is not helpful for the OP or anyone reading this looking for good advice. I read it as the council work for the bailiffs collecting there fees for them ?

Edited by matt v atos
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The relevant legislation is Section 52(4) of The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 (as amended):

 

"Where a step is taken for the recovery of an outstanding sum which is or forms part of an amount in respect of which a liability order has been made and under which additional costs or charges with respect to the step are also recoverable in accordance with this Part, any sum recovered thereby which is less than the aggregate of the amount outstanding and such additional costs and charges, shall be treated as discharging first the costs and charges, the balance (if any) being applied towards the discharge of the outstanding sum."

 

In simple terms, as previously noted, this means that any costs or charges due in bailiff fees must be paid before the outstanding arrears. If the council receive payment direct, they MUST, by law, discharge the bailiff fees. So if you pay just the council tax arrears and not the fees, you will actually be paying the fees!

 

.

.

This is a most helpful post and confirms the position regarding bailiff fees (which is that with council tax recovery bailiff fees are legally deducted as a first charge with the balance being paid over to the local authority). It is a shame that local authorities do not adhere to this !!!

Edited by tomtubby
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.

.

This is a most helpful post and confirms the position regarding bailiff fees (which is that with council tax recovery bailiff fees are legally deducted as a first charge with the balance being paid over to the local authority). It is a shame that local authorities do not adhere to this !!!

 

This is all fine and dandy but once all the fees which in most cases are not legal inflated made up racked up picked out of the air phantom visit levys on door mats neighbours cars milk bottles trees in the garden, chairs with three legs, there is nothing left to pay over to local authority.?

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This is all fine and dandy but once all the fees which in most cases are not legal inflated made up racked up picked out of the air phantom visit levys on door mats neighbours cars milk bottles trees in the garden, chairs with three legs, there is nothing left to pay over to local authority.?

 

You must bear in mind the situation on fees, and challenge them for validity, that is why it is best to factor in £42,50 on top and pay it in when paying off a complete settlement to the council, even y installments to discharge visit fees, if all the others can be proved to be invalid. that would then clear the Lo with nowhere for the bailiff to go,

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This is all fine and dandy but once all the fees which in most cases are not legal inflated made up racked up picked out of the air phantom visit levys on door mats neighbours cars milk bottles trees in the garden, chairs with three legs, there is nothing left to pay over to local authority.?

 

Also regarding paying the coucil direct Ive lost count of the post where this has been attempted and the council have refused saying its been passed to the bailiff you have to deal with them.

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As much as I agree with you TT, it just dosnt work well that way.

 

Before the council hand any money over to the bailiff for their fee's they should be 100% sure that the bailiff has carried out the work correctly. Many dont and it maddens me to see that the council do not check, always taking the word of the bailiff.

 

Levies are done incorrectly and fee's are stacked up for work that is not done or fee's added that are not on the sch 5 listing.

 

Council's pretty much dont care about the aftermath that they have caused as long as they get what is owing to them.

 

If the bailiff wants people to stick to the regulations then they must also and so does the council. Its there written down, but many do not follow it, but will quote it even though they do not understand what they are quoting.

 

Perhaps a lesson on how to decipher these regulations when becoming a bailiff, or a council worker in the revenues dept;

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Thanks for all your help and comments, forgot to mention that two of my children are disabled on if which has very bad autism. I told the bailiff that he would be very upset to have a stranger or two come in the house and start removing stuff to which they said get them out of the house when we are here then.

 

Not the response I was expecting but what option do I have if I can't pay by Friday as they won't accept a proposal of two payments.

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Thanks for all your help and comments, forgot to mention that two of my children are disabled on if which has very bad autism. I told the bailiff that he would be very upset to have a stranger or two come in the house and start removing stuff to which they said get them out of the house when we are here then.

 

Not the response I was expecting but what option do I have if I can't pay by Friday as they won't accept a proposal of two payments.

 

Does this not come under vulneralility

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Thanks for all your help and comments, forgot to mention that two of my children are disabled on if which has very bad autism. I told the bailiff that he would be very upset to have a stranger or two come in the house and start removing stuff to which they said get them out of the house when we are here then.

 

Not the response I was expecting but what option do I have if I can't pay by Friday as they won't accept a proposal of two payments.

 

If that is the case then you should write to the Council & Bailiffs outlining these facts and refer them to the National Standards for Enforcement Agents claiming to be potentially vulnerable. You will need to provide of this and usually a letter from a medical professional will suffice.

Please consider making a small donation to help keep this site running

 

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Spoke to council again and expressed my concern about them entering, I was told by the recovery woman at the council that they can't just enter at their own will. I told her that if they do then I would hold the council responsible, I then got a call back saying that they will take the account back and to make an arrangement with them.

 

Thanks for all you help and support everyone.

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Excellent news, I don't think the council could stomach the odium they would get if their bailiffs were shown to be upsetting an autistic child, even the fragrant Ms Green-Jones would not live that one down

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We appear to have a case of a Local Authority abiding by the National Standards for Enforcement Agents. EXCELLENT.

 

It is however important that you ensure that you check to see what charges have been applied to your account.

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  • 6 months later...

Hi All,

 

Had rossendales turn up at my house saying that they have a magistrates order for unpaid council tax to the sum of £650 ish with an extra £24.50 fee for him,

 

I told him that I would look into this as I didn't beleive that this was the case and told him to politely go away,

which he actually did before telling me that he would be back with a van in 7 days.

 

I contacted the council and in fact was told that I did owe money but was only £120 as it turns out that my payments were being posted on my old account

which they sorted out and I paid the £120.00.

 

about 2 weeks passed and the same bailiff showed up asking for the full balance,

 

I showed him the receipt of the payment of the £120.00 but he claims that I still owe £530.00 and his fees on top which is now £42.50 (2 visits).

 

I told him where to go and said suggested that his office speak to the council as I don't owe a penny to them.

Also told him that if he didnt go I would cal the police.

 

He went but am still getting hand posted letters put through the door claiming they have a magistrates court order for £42.50 for unpaid council tax and fees

and they will come back to take my goods..(would like to see them try as I have no CT arrears..)

 

Can anyone tell me if I legally have to pay or are they just trying it on,

I dont mind paying what I owe or have to pay but wont be bullied into paying something that I shouldn't.

 

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

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Hi, call the council and get them to call Rossendales off.

 

From personal experience I know that Rossendales can add fees for attendances that didn't happen etc.

 

If your payments were being posted to the correct account, Rossendales would not have attended your property, so it is up to the council to put them straight.

 

If the council and Rossendales cannot communicate effectively, that is not your fault.

 

They cannot take your goods as they have not entered your property to see what they can legally take.

 

As there are no arrears, they have no legal right to enter your property anyway.

 

And if they did, after showing them that you were no longer in arrears and the majority of the arrears was the council's accounting error.......

 

For your own peace of mind, get it in writing from the council as to what went on as well as confirmation that they will call Rossendales off, and send a copy of that to Rossendales politely telling them to bog off and if they want paying for any fees, ask the council!

 

Bel

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Thanks, I have spoken to council who have advised me that there is no amounts oustanding and that the liability order is no longer effective

and they they have recalled this account back from rossendales after I paid the acount off to them.

 

It seems that rossendales are trying to use the satisfied and no longer valid magistrates court order to collect their fees.

 

Surely this is not allowed, is it?

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its a liability order

 

if he came ONCE before you paid the council then sadly I think you owe the 1st visit fee only.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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its a liability order

 

if he came ONCE before you paid the council then sadly I think you owe the 1st visit fee only.

 

dx

 

I would concur with DX, pay the £24.50 either into the council, and tell them that it is for Rossendales visit fee for which they are entitled or to Dossers themselves, but they would then start demanding what they think they are owed rather than the actuality. They are like that.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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