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    • I do disagree with you regarding one thing - we are not very good with letters or these situations and are slow on the uptake. So far you have stood up to Excel and their threats, immediately given us the information in the sticky, done loads of reading up to educate yourselves, learnt from the mistake of outing the driver so you'll know not to do so in the future, got on to the organ grinder to try to get them to call off their dogs, etc., etc.  Good grief - we wish everyone who came here would do this!!! Most people who get these invoices sadly think they have been fined and if they don't pay a drone from Ukraine will be diverted and will fall on their home (or some such vague grand apocalyptic threat) and they fold and give in.  You haven't.  Well done. Don't worry - you won't be paying a penny.  Although it will take some time to see off this vile company.
    • Spot on!  You learn quickly. Who cares if the case gets sent to debt collectors?  They have no powers.  All the effort you will have to put in will be to open envelopes - and then spend time laughing at their daft "threats".  No stress at all!
    • I did ask them why, but seems they have more spare cash than we do .. ;-( .. I doubt their bank would even support a chargeback after a year has passed. Anyway I've constructed my first DRAFT Snotty Letter .. so here goes ..   RE: PCN 4xxxxx Dear ALLIANCE PARKING Litigation Dept, Thank you for your dubious Letter Of Claim (dated 29th April 2024) of £100 for just 2 minutes of overstay. The family rolled around on the floor in amazement of the idea you actually think they’d accept this nonsense, let alone being confused over the extra unlawful £70 you had added. Shall we raise that related VAT issue with HMRC, or perhaps the custodians of the unicorn grain silos? Apart from the serious GDPR breach you’ve made with the DVLA and your complete failure in identifying the driver, we’re dumbfounded that the PCN is still not compliant with the PoFA (2012 Schedule 4 Under Section 9.2.f) even after 12 years of pathetic trial and error. We also doubt a judge would be very impressed at your bone idleness and lack of due diligence regarding the ANPR entry / exit periods compared with actual valid parking periods. Especially with no consideration of the legally allowed grace periods and the topological nature of the Cornish landscape versus a traditional multi-storey. And don’t even get us started on the invisible signage during the ultra busy bank holiday carnage, that is otherwise known as the random parking chaos in the several unmarked over-spill fields, or indeed the tedious “frustration of contract” attempting to get a data connection to Justpark.  We suggest your clients drop this extreme foolishness or get an absolute hammering in court. We are more than ready to raise the issues with a fair minded judge, who will most likely laugh your clients out in less time than it takes to capture more useless ANPR photos. We will of course be requesting “an unreasonable costs order” under CPR 27.14.2.g and put it toward future taxis to Harlyn Bay instead.  We all look forward to your clients' deafening silence. Legal Counsel on behalf of the Vehicle Keeper.  
    • Hi,t I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right subsection but General Retail appears to be the closest to it I think... About a year and a half ago I got a new phone so I listed my iPhone 10 on eBay.  The listed stated 'UK only' and 'no returns accepted'. Considering I had had the phone for about 4 years, I myself was amazed that I had kept it in such good condition all that time - apart from being slightly scuffed around the charging port there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. It had the original box, its unopened original Apple cable, plug, and earbuds, and I threw in a case for it and It had always had a screen protector on it. Someone wanted it from Armenia, and I stupidly agreed to it.  She paid and I sent it off, fully insured. Not long after she received it, she sent a message saying it 'was not as described', so I asked to see photos of whatever was the problem.  She sent two photographs of the box.  Just the box.  I said I wasn't even going to consider refunding her unless she told me what she meant by 'not as described'.  I thought, if it's been damaged in transit, then it would be covered by the insurance. Anyway, she didn't respond at all, even though I had messaged her several times, so she opened a case with eBay. I have sold a fair few things of mine on eBay in the past buy had never had had anyone come back to me asking for a refund.  I got in touch with eBay several times by phone and by email, and found out they always side with the buyer, no matter what with their 'eBay Seller Guarantee'.  She had been told she could keep the phone and told me they would recover the money from me from my account blah blah.  So I unlinked all of my cards etc and changed my bank account to one that I never use with no money in it. My account got suspended.  I continued to try to explain to eBay that I had been scammed but I got nowhere. My account was permanently inaccessible by this point. I reported the phone stolen and the IMEI blacklisted but I'm not sure if that would make any difference being in Armenia, but it was all I could think of to piss the buyer off. A couple of months later I was contacted by email by a debt recovery company (I can' remember who now), to whom I explained I will not discuss the matter with them until I had received an SAR I had requested from eBay. As I could no longer access my account, I couldn't review the communication I needed to show I was not in the wrong. The SAR was produced but I was advised that the information I was looking for would not be included but I said I wanted it anyway.  There were so many codes etc. and hoops to jump through to access it, that even after trying whilst on the phone to them, I still couldn't get into it, so I never got to see it in the end.  I think they said they would send the code by post but they never did and I forgot about it after a while. I've just come across a couple of emails from Moorgroup, asking me to phone them to discuss a private matter regarding eBay.  I haven't replied or done anything at all yet.  The amount they are trying to recover from me is £200ish from what I remember. I know it's not that much but I don't want to pay the b*astards on general principle. I've had a lot of useful advice from CAG in the past about debt collectors but it has always been about being chased by creditors, I've never been in this situation before. I don't know what power they legally have to recover the 'debt', and most importantly, I am two years into a DRO, and the last thing I want is another CCJ to shake off if I'm cutting my nose off to spite my face.   Any advice gratefully received!!
    • Hi, I have the Sims 4 on Macbook. Over the last year I have paid for multiple add on packs spending a lot of money on them. I bought them all in good faith as my Mac met all the minimum requirements to play them. I have been playing happily for about a year and bought my latest pack just over a week ago. The games were all working fine yesterday. Then suddenly today EA released a new app to launch the games and this new app requires a MAC OS that my computer cannot use. Now suddenly none of my games are accessible and I am unable to play anything. They did not warn us about this change in requirements and if I had known they would be doing this I wouldn't have bought all these add ons as they are now all totally unusable. The games themselves have not changed, only their app to launch them and I can't afford to buy a brand new mac just to play. So my question is how can they change the minimum requirements after I have paid for a game? I agreed to pay for them based on the fact my mac met their requirements and was not informed when purchasing that this would be an issue in the future. I understand new games (like Sims 5 which is to be released next year) might not be compatible but this is a 10yr old game that they have suddenly made inaccessible due to their new launch app. Does anybody know if I can do anything or anyway to get a partial refund from them? Thanks   Here are their T&C... I can't find anything in there about them being able to do this so not sure what to do https://tos.ea.com/legalapp/WEBTERMS/US/en/PC/
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fair evasion southeastern


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Hi everyone. i'm in need of some advice.

 

Last wednesday i had arranged to go and see some friends in london and intended to use the train to get there.

 

at around 4pm i went to my local trainstation (Marden).

 

The ticket office was closed so i went over to the permit machine to by a permit to travel that i could exchange on the train or when i get to london.

 

The machine was out of order aswell.

 

I boarded the train anyway and thought i could explain it to the train staff when i get to london and buy my ticket there.

 

I was a bit early and decided to get off a stop early at sevenoaks.

 

when i reached the gates there were a large group of revenue inspectors.

 

I approached one of them and explained my situation to him.

 

He took me over to another staff member with a ticket machine.

 

I explained that the ticket office was closed and that the permit to travel machine was not working.

 

He immediately said "its a penalty fare mate"

 

I explained to him again and he just kept repeating "its a penalty fare".

 

he would not listen. at the time i was thinking that penalty fare meant that i was gonna go to court and get prosecuted.

 

I started to panic and tried to make a run for it but was caught by 3 big men who must have worked for revenue inspection.

 

they took me into the corner and told me that i was going to be prosecuted.

 

i tried explaining that their colleague was not listening.

 

they took my details and said i would be hearing from them in the next 4-6 weeks.

 

I know i shudnt have ran off but i didnt want to be fined for fare avading when that never was my intention.

 

now i dont know what to do.

 

i'm unemployed and can't receive legal aid for this kind of incident.

 

 

Any advice would be much appreciated thanks.

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If the machine was not working

then they will find that out

 

i cant see this going anywhere as such.

 

see if you get a letter

 

and if you are telling the truth about the machine

 

then i'd simply offer the price of the unpaid fare.

 

ok, ideally it is YOUR responsibility to find the on board conductor and get a ticket

 

it slightly worries me you have missed that bit out?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thank you for your reply

 

"ok, ideally it is YOUR responsibility to find the on board conductor and get a ticket

 

it slightly worries me you have missed that bit out?"

 

when i got on the train i waited for the guard to come to me but he never did. I wasnt aware that i had to go looking for him .

i just figured i could square it with them at the station.

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sadly that could be your undoing

or more financially wise - more expensive

 

as you'll see on many threads mentioned in this forum

 

it is sadly a requirement of your agreed T&C's

that you MUST seek out a conductor and get a ticket.

 

pers i'd do nothing till you get a letter.

 

you dont know if you are fighting anything yet.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thanks again. i will wait and see if i get a letter.

 

what sort of punishment can i expect in worst case scenario and is the fine means tested? will i have to go to court?

 

Thanks

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Hi everyone. i'm in need of some advice.

 

Last wednesday i had arranged to go and see some friends in london and intended to use the train to get there.

 

at around 4pm i went to my local trainstation (Marden).

 

The ticket office was closed so i went over to the permit machine to by a permit to travel that i could exchange on the train or when i get to london.

 

The machine was out of order aswell.

 

I boarded the train anyway and thought i could explain it to the train staff when i get to london and buy my ticket there.

 

I was a bit early and decided to get off a stop early at sevenoaks.

 

when i reached the gates there were a large group of revenue inspectors.

 

I approached one of them and explained my situation to him.

 

He took me over to another staff member with a ticket machine.

 

I explained that the ticket office was closed and that the permit to travel machine was not working.

 

He immediately said "its a penalty fare mate"

 

I explained to him again and he just kept repeating "its a penalty fare".

 

he would not listen. at the time i was thinking that penalty fare meant that i was gonna go to court and get prosecuted.

 

I started to panic and tried to make a run for it but was caught by 3 big men who must have worked for revenue inspection.

 

they took me into the corner and told me that i was going to be prosecuted.

 

i tried explaining that their colleague was not listening.

 

they took my details and said i would be hearing from them in the next 4-6 weeks.

 

I know i shudnt have ran off but i didnt want to be fined for fare avading when that never was my intention.

 

now i dont know what to do.

 

i'm unemployed and can't receive legal aid for this kind of incident.

 

 

Any advice would be much appreciated thanks.

 

A penalty fare can only be offered if they don't think you were trying to fare evade.

Additionally, a penalty fare isn't a fine and doesn't involve court.

 

It is easy to be wise after the event, but ideally you should have accepted the penalty fare, and then appealed it.

 

7.3 An authorised collector must not charge a penalty fare under rule 6.2 if any of the following circumstances applied at the station where the person joined the relevant train.

 

a) There were no facilities available to issue the appropriate ticket or other authority for the journey which that person wanted to make.

 

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/rail-penalty-fares/rail-penalty-fares-rules.pdf

 

The TOC will have records of if the ticket office was closed and if any ticket machines were working & available.

 

However, running off was just about the worst thing you could do, as it could be used to show "intent to avoid a fare"

Edited by BazzaS
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A Byelaw 18(1), 18(2) prosecution cannot occur because the OP has a specified defence under Byelaw 18(3).

 

A Byelaw 23(1) [[or at a push 24(2)(iii) ]] prosecution could be successful, if the OP was requested to give his name and address, and if the authorised person, (RPI), had reasonable belief to assume the passenger had breached Byelaw 18(1). This belief could be formed if, for example, he has not been informed that the PERTIS has failed, or the booking office has closed, or even if other passengers from the same station had tickets. It just needs "suspicion".

Subsequently running away, after name and address was requested, could complete the offence.

 

Alternatively a S5 RoRA 1889 may be instigated but it needs to be proved the intent was to avoid fare due. Depends on whether the Penalty Fare is the fare due, particularly if he offered to pay the normal fare.

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Alternatively a S5 RoRA 1889 may be instigated but it needs to be proved the intent was to avoid fare due. Depends on whether the Penalty Fare is the fare due, particularly if he offered to pay the normal fare.

 

I would agree with most of that, however the Act states 'having not paid his fare' and so the fare to be pursued in a S.5 prosecution is the unpaid single fare for the journey made, not the Penalty Fare, which is a civil remedy and therefore irrelevant in terms of such a charge.

 

 

Subsequently running away, after name and address was requested, could complete the offence.

 

In my view this makes the prosecution of RoRA S.5.3 very much more likely and very likely to succeed. Of course a charge of 'bilking' could be pursued under the Theft Act if the matter were referred to Police

 

( Just musing on the likely questions if I were the prosecutor, I wonder why, if the OP was meeting friends in London he decided to get off at Sevenoaks? )

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  • 1 month later...

hi. i received a letter from southeastern mentioning the incident and asking for me to confirm it is me, and asking for any comments on the incident on the back. the letter had a 7 day deadline to be returned or the matter would be procesed with out me having further notice. i filled in the my details and gave my version of events on the back.i decided to send it 1st class recorded delivery because i wanted to make sure it got there. its now been 9 days since i sent the letter back and i checked on royal mail tracker and the letter still hasn't been signed for. i am now worried about what will happen now. any advice will be much appreciated thanks

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hi everyone. i'm in need of some advice. about 6 weeks ago i was suspected of fare evasion by southeastern trains. They took my details. about 10 days ago i received a letter mentioning the incident had now been authorised for prosecution. the letter also asked me if i was the person in the incident and also for my occupation, NI number, phone number and to confirm my name and address. It also asked for any comments i had on the incident to be written on the back of the letter and to send it back to southeastern prosecutions department. The letter also stated that I had a 7 day deadline to send the letter back or the matter would be progressed without me receiving further notice ( not sure what that means ).

 

so I filled in my information and then wrote my versions of the event on the back. I decided to send it 1st class recorded delivery to make sure it got there witthin the 7 day deadline. it has now been 10 days and the letter still hasn't been signed for.

 

I'm guessing royal mail tried to deliver it to the address and there was noone there to sign for it, so they left it to be collected at the nearest post office.

 

My point is that I have now missed thr 7 day deadline to get the letter back to them and southeastern might think i have ignored their letter. I'm worried now and would like to know what is going to happen with this matter. will southeastern just go ahead and prosecute anyway. if so will i receive my court summons soon?

 

i am worried about the bit in the letter that says the matter will be progressed with out me getting further notice if i dont get the letter back in 7 days. what do they mean by that? will i still get a court summons date sent to me and the opportunity to go court? this is really worrying me now

 

tohhnee

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I think this is correct but, apologies if it isn't, some places get so much 'signed for' post that, rather than sign for every individual piece of mail, they sign once for all pieces of mail sent by the same method. Such bulk signings can mean that the individual pieces of mail don't ever show as being signed for even though they have been received by the intended recipient.

 

You could always contact the people who wrote to you explaining you sent the letter to them on xx date but nothing is showing up yet so could they check whether they have logged receipt of it!!Feebee_71

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hi everyone. i'm in need of some advice. about 6 weeks ago i was suspected of fare evasion by southeastern trains. They took my details. about 10 days ago i received a letter mentioning the incident had now been authorised for prosecution. the letter also asked me if i was the person in the incident and also for my occupation, NI number, phone number and to confirm my name and address. It also asked for any comments i had on the incident to be written on the back of the letter and to send it back to southeastern prosecutions department. The letter also stated that I had a 7 day deadline to send the letter back or the matter would be progressed without me receiving further notice ( not sure what that means ).

 

so I filled in my information and then wrote my versions of the event on the back. I decided to send it 1st class recorded delivery to make sure it got there witthin the 7 day deadline. it has now been 10 days and the letter still hasn't been signed for.

 

I'm guessing royal mail tried to deliver it to the address and there was noone there to sign for it, so they left it to be collected at the nearest post office.

 

My point is that I have now missed thr 7 day deadline to get the letter back to them and southeastern might think i have ignored their letter. I'm worried now and would like to know what is going to happen with this matter. will southeastern just go ahead and prosecute anyway. if so will i receive my court summons soon?

 

i am worried about the bit in the letter that says the matter will be progressed with out me getting further notice if i dont get the letter back in 7 days. what do they mean by that? will i still get a court summons date sent to me and the opportunity to go court? this is really worrying me now

 

tohhnee

 

Did you copy your reply or take a note of the reference number?.

 

Call them and explain (sometimes recorded delivery gets delivered & not signed for, so they may tell you they have your reply).

 

If you can't be sure they have your reply, resend it by Special Delivery.

 

Special Delivery is a "guaranteed delivery" service and is "tracked" from posting to delivery. Recorded delivery isn't a guaranteed delivery service (they say they'll get a signature on delivery, but they don't guarantee to deliver it), is in effect "1st class mail", so they won't consider it missing for 14 days, and I don't rely on it for anything important.

 

Recorded Delivery is treated the same as ordinary 1st class mail (no tracking) until the last step of its journey (if it gets there), where they should get a signature. Special Delivery is tracked at each stage.

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thank you for the advice. i rang up southeastern customer services explaining the situation and asked them if they had the number of the prosecutions office. the man i spoke to said he didn't have a number and said that i would have to write to them. :|

 

does anyone know how i can get in direct contact with southeastern prosecutions office? i just wanna make sure they got my reply.

 

also, does anyone know what they will do if they didn't receive the reply? what will be their next actions?

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