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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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fair evasion southeastern


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Hi everyone. i'm in need of some advice.

 

Last wednesday i had arranged to go and see some friends in london and intended to use the train to get there.

 

at around 4pm i went to my local trainstation (Marden).

 

The ticket office was closed so i went over to the permit machine to by a permit to travel that i could exchange on the train or when i get to london.

 

The machine was out of order aswell.

 

I boarded the train anyway and thought i could explain it to the train staff when i get to london and buy my ticket there.

 

I was a bit early and decided to get off a stop early at sevenoaks.

 

when i reached the gates there were a large group of revenue inspectors.

 

I approached one of them and explained my situation to him.

 

He took me over to another staff member with a ticket machine.

 

I explained that the ticket office was closed and that the permit to travel machine was not working.

 

He immediately said "its a penalty fare mate"

 

I explained to him again and he just kept repeating "its a penalty fare".

 

he would not listen. at the time i was thinking that penalty fare meant that i was gonna go to court and get prosecuted.

 

I started to panic and tried to make a run for it but was caught by 3 big men who must have worked for revenue inspection.

 

they took me into the corner and told me that i was going to be prosecuted.

 

i tried explaining that their colleague was not listening.

 

they took my details and said i would be hearing from them in the next 4-6 weeks.

 

I know i shudnt have ran off but i didnt want to be fined for fare avading when that never was my intention.

 

now i dont know what to do.

 

i'm unemployed and can't receive legal aid for this kind of incident.

 

 

Any advice would be much appreciated thanks.

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If the machine was not working

then they will find that out

 

i cant see this going anywhere as such.

 

see if you get a letter

 

and if you are telling the truth about the machine

 

then i'd simply offer the price of the unpaid fare.

 

ok, ideally it is YOUR responsibility to find the on board conductor and get a ticket

 

it slightly worries me you have missed that bit out?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thank you for your reply

 

"ok, ideally it is YOUR responsibility to find the on board conductor and get a ticket

 

it slightly worries me you have missed that bit out?"

 

when i got on the train i waited for the guard to come to me but he never did. I wasnt aware that i had to go looking for him .

i just figured i could square it with them at the station.

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sadly that could be your undoing

or more financially wise - more expensive

 

as you'll see on many threads mentioned in this forum

 

it is sadly a requirement of your agreed T&C's

that you MUST seek out a conductor and get a ticket.

 

pers i'd do nothing till you get a letter.

 

you dont know if you are fighting anything yet.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thanks again. i will wait and see if i get a letter.

 

what sort of punishment can i expect in worst case scenario and is the fine means tested? will i have to go to court?

 

Thanks

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Hi everyone. i'm in need of some advice.

 

Last wednesday i had arranged to go and see some friends in london and intended to use the train to get there.

 

at around 4pm i went to my local trainstation (Marden).

 

The ticket office was closed so i went over to the permit machine to by a permit to travel that i could exchange on the train or when i get to london.

 

The machine was out of order aswell.

 

I boarded the train anyway and thought i could explain it to the train staff when i get to london and buy my ticket there.

 

I was a bit early and decided to get off a stop early at sevenoaks.

 

when i reached the gates there were a large group of revenue inspectors.

 

I approached one of them and explained my situation to him.

 

He took me over to another staff member with a ticket machine.

 

I explained that the ticket office was closed and that the permit to travel machine was not working.

 

He immediately said "its a penalty fare mate"

 

I explained to him again and he just kept repeating "its a penalty fare".

 

he would not listen. at the time i was thinking that penalty fare meant that i was gonna go to court and get prosecuted.

 

I started to panic and tried to make a run for it but was caught by 3 big men who must have worked for revenue inspection.

 

they took me into the corner and told me that i was going to be prosecuted.

 

i tried explaining that their colleague was not listening.

 

they took my details and said i would be hearing from them in the next 4-6 weeks.

 

I know i shudnt have ran off but i didnt want to be fined for fare avading when that never was my intention.

 

now i dont know what to do.

 

i'm unemployed and can't receive legal aid for this kind of incident.

 

 

Any advice would be much appreciated thanks.

 

A penalty fare can only be offered if they don't think you were trying to fare evade.

Additionally, a penalty fare isn't a fine and doesn't involve court.

 

It is easy to be wise after the event, but ideally you should have accepted the penalty fare, and then appealed it.

 

7.3 An authorised collector must not charge a penalty fare under rule 6.2 if any of the following circumstances applied at the station where the person joined the relevant train.

 

a) There were no facilities available to issue the appropriate ticket or other authority for the journey which that person wanted to make.

 

http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/rail-penalty-fares/rail-penalty-fares-rules.pdf

 

The TOC will have records of if the ticket office was closed and if any ticket machines were working & available.

 

However, running off was just about the worst thing you could do, as it could be used to show "intent to avoid a fare"

Edited by BazzaS
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A Byelaw 18(1), 18(2) prosecution cannot occur because the OP has a specified defence under Byelaw 18(3).

 

A Byelaw 23(1) [[or at a push 24(2)(iii) ]] prosecution could be successful, if the OP was requested to give his name and address, and if the authorised person, (RPI), had reasonable belief to assume the passenger had breached Byelaw 18(1). This belief could be formed if, for example, he has not been informed that the PERTIS has failed, or the booking office has closed, or even if other passengers from the same station had tickets. It just needs "suspicion".

Subsequently running away, after name and address was requested, could complete the offence.

 

Alternatively a S5 RoRA 1889 may be instigated but it needs to be proved the intent was to avoid fare due. Depends on whether the Penalty Fare is the fare due, particularly if he offered to pay the normal fare.

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Alternatively a S5 RoRA 1889 may be instigated but it needs to be proved the intent was to avoid fare due. Depends on whether the Penalty Fare is the fare due, particularly if he offered to pay the normal fare.

 

I would agree with most of that, however the Act states 'having not paid his fare' and so the fare to be pursued in a S.5 prosecution is the unpaid single fare for the journey made, not the Penalty Fare, which is a civil remedy and therefore irrelevant in terms of such a charge.

 

 

Subsequently running away, after name and address was requested, could complete the offence.

 

In my view this makes the prosecution of RoRA S.5.3 very much more likely and very likely to succeed. Of course a charge of 'bilking' could be pursued under the Theft Act if the matter were referred to Police

 

( Just musing on the likely questions if I were the prosecutor, I wonder why, if the OP was meeting friends in London he decided to get off at Sevenoaks? )

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  • 1 month later...

hi. i received a letter from southeastern mentioning the incident and asking for me to confirm it is me, and asking for any comments on the incident on the back. the letter had a 7 day deadline to be returned or the matter would be procesed with out me having further notice. i filled in the my details and gave my version of events on the back.i decided to send it 1st class recorded delivery because i wanted to make sure it got there. its now been 9 days since i sent the letter back and i checked on royal mail tracker and the letter still hasn't been signed for. i am now worried about what will happen now. any advice will be much appreciated thanks

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hi everyone. i'm in need of some advice. about 6 weeks ago i was suspected of fare evasion by southeastern trains. They took my details. about 10 days ago i received a letter mentioning the incident had now been authorised for prosecution. the letter also asked me if i was the person in the incident and also for my occupation, NI number, phone number and to confirm my name and address. It also asked for any comments i had on the incident to be written on the back of the letter and to send it back to southeastern prosecutions department. The letter also stated that I had a 7 day deadline to send the letter back or the matter would be progressed without me receiving further notice ( not sure what that means ).

 

so I filled in my information and then wrote my versions of the event on the back. I decided to send it 1st class recorded delivery to make sure it got there witthin the 7 day deadline. it has now been 10 days and the letter still hasn't been signed for.

 

I'm guessing royal mail tried to deliver it to the address and there was noone there to sign for it, so they left it to be collected at the nearest post office.

 

My point is that I have now missed thr 7 day deadline to get the letter back to them and southeastern might think i have ignored their letter. I'm worried now and would like to know what is going to happen with this matter. will southeastern just go ahead and prosecute anyway. if so will i receive my court summons soon?

 

i am worried about the bit in the letter that says the matter will be progressed with out me getting further notice if i dont get the letter back in 7 days. what do they mean by that? will i still get a court summons date sent to me and the opportunity to go court? this is really worrying me now

 

tohhnee

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I think this is correct but, apologies if it isn't, some places get so much 'signed for' post that, rather than sign for every individual piece of mail, they sign once for all pieces of mail sent by the same method. Such bulk signings can mean that the individual pieces of mail don't ever show as being signed for even though they have been received by the intended recipient.

 

You could always contact the people who wrote to you explaining you sent the letter to them on xx date but nothing is showing up yet so could they check whether they have logged receipt of it!!Feebee_71

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hi everyone. i'm in need of some advice. about 6 weeks ago i was suspected of fare evasion by southeastern trains. They took my details. about 10 days ago i received a letter mentioning the incident had now been authorised for prosecution. the letter also asked me if i was the person in the incident and also for my occupation, NI number, phone number and to confirm my name and address. It also asked for any comments i had on the incident to be written on the back of the letter and to send it back to southeastern prosecutions department. The letter also stated that I had a 7 day deadline to send the letter back or the matter would be progressed without me receiving further notice ( not sure what that means ).

 

so I filled in my information and then wrote my versions of the event on the back. I decided to send it 1st class recorded delivery to make sure it got there witthin the 7 day deadline. it has now been 10 days and the letter still hasn't been signed for.

 

I'm guessing royal mail tried to deliver it to the address and there was noone there to sign for it, so they left it to be collected at the nearest post office.

 

My point is that I have now missed thr 7 day deadline to get the letter back to them and southeastern might think i have ignored their letter. I'm worried now and would like to know what is going to happen with this matter. will southeastern just go ahead and prosecute anyway. if so will i receive my court summons soon?

 

i am worried about the bit in the letter that says the matter will be progressed with out me getting further notice if i dont get the letter back in 7 days. what do they mean by that? will i still get a court summons date sent to me and the opportunity to go court? this is really worrying me now

 

tohhnee

 

Did you copy your reply or take a note of the reference number?.

 

Call them and explain (sometimes recorded delivery gets delivered & not signed for, so they may tell you they have your reply).

 

If you can't be sure they have your reply, resend it by Special Delivery.

 

Special Delivery is a "guaranteed delivery" service and is "tracked" from posting to delivery. Recorded delivery isn't a guaranteed delivery service (they say they'll get a signature on delivery, but they don't guarantee to deliver it), is in effect "1st class mail", so they won't consider it missing for 14 days, and I don't rely on it for anything important.

 

Recorded Delivery is treated the same as ordinary 1st class mail (no tracking) until the last step of its journey (if it gets there), where they should get a signature. Special Delivery is tracked at each stage.

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thank you for the advice. i rang up southeastern customer services explaining the situation and asked them if they had the number of the prosecutions office. the man i spoke to said he didn't have a number and said that i would have to write to them. :|

 

does anyone know how i can get in direct contact with southeastern prosecutions office? i just wanna make sure they got my reply.

 

also, does anyone know what they will do if they didn't receive the reply? what will be their next actions?

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