New Employer can't afford to pay me! Part2

[LaughingGirl]

Hi again guys.

 

I have a parallel thread running in the benefits section regarding this problem (Link Below):

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?379850-New-Employer-can-t-afford-to-pay-me-!

 

Bullet points for brevity's sake:

 

• Started work Jan 7th, contracted payment date 23rd Jan.
  
• 23rd Jan, no payment forthcoming. Kicked up fuss, £250 (rather than the £300 promised) materialised at about 10.30pm that evening.
  
• 24th Jan, I was taken to one side by a senior member of personnel who told me that the company couldn't afford to pay me the remainder of my wage at present but they would 'try to get something to me' today or Monday
  

 

The situation as it stands is that nothing has gone into my bank, and I've been told the following by another member of staff:

 

• She's only been paid on time twice in eight months, and she frequently has to threaten to stop work to get paid.
  
• The company have used a high APR factoring company get the money to pay us this month (although that's debatable because we haven't been paid yet, obviously), and have been using them to fund the business since November.
  
• The company have been taken to ET multiple times in the last 18 months for non-payment of wages
  
• If I leave before they pay me, they won't pay me unless I make them.
  

 

My plan is to hold out until the close of play today, and see if any money goes in. To be blunt, however, my transport to work costs me £120 a month, and I need to renew my ticket on Monday - if I haven't been paid the rest of my wage, I won't be able to afford to do that, so physically getting to work won't be possible for me.

 

I'm interested to see how everyone here would play this from this point?

Edited January 25, 2013 by LaughingGirl

[honeybee13]

Hello again LG.

 

Thank you for starting the new thread and I hope the guys will be able to help you.

 

In case people don't have time to read the benefits thread, Laughing Girl was more or less told to take this job by Jobcentre plus [don't ask...], which has made things difficult for her.

 

HB

[assisted blonde]

My opinion is that you shouldnt go back and look for somthing else, but I would speak to the jc about it if they have told you to take this job

[LaughingGirl]

I've already emailed the JCP, and had no response. I think my only alternative at this stage is to finish today as normal, but not come in Monday and physically attend the JCP and speak directly to the adviser that gave me the job to apply to. I literally cannot afford to come in on Monday anyway, as it stands.

 

I've just had an email saying that I have not been paid yet because they're having "issues with their Wi-Fi", which has worried me even more to be honest. They can't make transfers by phone? Use an ethernet cable? This just doesn't feel right at all.

[LaughingGirl]

Well, by way of an update, some money has been deposited but as it stands I've been paid just under £700, which by my calculations makes my pay about £5.30 an hour, going on the hours that I've worked. I have zero faith that if I work the next four weeks they will be in a position to pay me, so I won't be going back.

[LaughingGirl]

Further to my last post - the total I have been paid is actually 675.00. An email was sent saying that the money that was paid into the accounts (obviously I'm not the only person affected) was a rough approximation of what's owed and amounts could be 'rounded up or down' on Monday. I'm not entirely sure how they think that they're going to round it down unless they write to me and ask for me to repay money.

 

This works out at roughly £5.29 an hour now that I've checked properly. Even more worryingly, one of the other girls who queried her wage was told that they couldn't work it out exactly because we're not going to get a wage slip for this payment.

[Hacked_Off]

Report them to the tax office!!!

[LaughingGirl]

I'm a bit leery of reporting them for that until I have it from the horses mouth, so to speak. They've been trying to call me all morning, but I don't particularly want to get into a phone debate about all of this - I'd prefer to keep it to emails so I have a paper trail. They'd be very silly indeed to tell me in writing that I'm not getting a payslip, though.

[honeybee13]

I agree with that, LG, you're likely to need evidence if you're going to report them.

 

This has been discussed before, hopefully someone will be able to tell you about the procedure.

 

HB

[Surfer01]

Isn't that payment below the NW?

[honeybee13]

Indeed, Surfer.

 

£6.19 per hour for over 21s as at 9th January 2013 according to gov.uk.

 

HB

[LaughingGirl]

OK, it's just getting really quite silly now. Long story short, I had a phone call this evening saying that if I come back, they'd be happy to pay me weekly to 'regain my trust', and that I should stick with them because they have a management position in mind for me when they take on additional staff (Seriously??!!). When I said that I'd have to discuss the offer with my partner, the tone of the conversation changed and I was told that I'd been paid up to January 31st and that if I didn't agree to come back I'd either have to work hours owed or repay them the money.

 

My plan now is to email all the Directors very politely declining the offer, and to ask that if they say I owe then any money, to confirm the sum involved so I can arrange repayment. I'd be very interested to see if any of them are prepared to commit to that in writing.

[huggy41]

don't forget to remind them that min wage is £6.19 per hour

[Nystagmite]

This works out at roughly £5.29 an hour now that I've checked properly. Even more worryingly, one of the other girls who queried her wage was told that they couldn't work it out exactly because we're not going to get a wage slip for this payment.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of all this; but aren't they legally required to supply wage slips?

[LaughingGirl]

I don't think they need reminding, Huggy. I think that they're just hoping that I was born yesterday and I'll be intimidated into going back because I'm frightened that I might owe them money. I'd put what little money I have left on that anything that I mention in writing about the so called 'overpayment' will be completely ignored.

 

I'm going to wait to see what they're prepared to commit to in writing before I decide on further action.

[huggy41]

if they ring on mobile try and record it there is a free app called total recall that records both sides of the conversation automaticaly

[LaughingGirl]

Thanks for that Huggy, I'll download it.

[Hacked_Off]

Sound like there just trying to butter you up to return to work!! Have you spoke to the job centre?

[LaughingGirl]

Sound like there just trying to butter you up to return to work!! Have you spoke to the job centre?

 

Well, if they're trying to butter me up, vague threats about owing them money is completely the wrong way to go about it! Before that happened, I was just concerned about whether or not I'd be able to sign on and do crazy things like eat next week - now I'm absolutely furious!

 

I've just worked my exact hourly wage out using an online salary calculator, and if what is being suggested is true and I've been paid up to the 31st January, I've just worked this month for a staggering £4.41 an hour (gross). Maybe I completely misunderstood my contract and I was actually on some sort of apprenticeship. [/sarcasm]

 

Even if I've been paid for the hours I actually worked, it would work out as a gross hourly rate of £5.19 an hour, so still under minimum wage. Naturally, my email asking how much I owe and how I should repay it has been met with a request to call them, which isn't going to happen - not even with a call recorder. They can put it in writing or forget about it.

 

@ Nystagmite - yep, they're definitely supposed to provide wage slips, legally. I think it's pretty obvious why they don't want to in my case though.

[SNALF]

Hi LaughingGirl. If a payrun has been missed or went wrong for some reason, an employer can make a payment without a payslip being produced rather than leave their employees high and dry. As long as the amounts are then included on the next pay run (i.e. February), they are ok to do this. They are sort of making a payment 'in advance' of the next formal payrun. Just check with them that they are not planning to never produce a payslip, merely that there won't be one for this payment as a payrun hasn't actually happened.

[LaughingGirl]

SNALF, thanks for the clarification. It's not usually something I'd be concerned about if it was a one off and I'd been with the employer for some time, so was able to make a qualified judgement on their integrity. However, the circumstances on this occasion are very different in my opinion because a) We were told we were being paid late because they couldn't afford to pay us on time and b) They are now claiming that I've been over paid despite the fact that I've been paid less than the minimum wage even for the hours I've worked.

 

To be honest, the payslip or lack thereof isn't my major concern because I can rely on my bank statements if this does go any further.

[SNALF]

Sounds like you are best out of there Laughing Girl but still don't let them get away with it. To make a nett payment in advance of a payrun, they normally deduct 33% to make sure that they have covered all deductions for when the payrun happens. If you are calculating your wages, divide the payment they made by two and then times by three, that should give you the approximate gross. Then divide the gross by the hours worked (bearing in mind they may have a 'cut-off' date for extra hours). There is a chance that they do not calculate payment outside of a pay run in this way, but most employers do. Hope that helps.

[LaughingGirl]

Thank you SNALF - that's really interesting to know, and if they have done it that way it would explain the low payment. It still doesn't explain why they're saying that I owe them money though!

[Surfer01]

OK, it's just getting really quite silly now. Long story short, I had a phone call this evening saying that if I come back, they'd be happy to pay me weekly to 'regain my trust', and that I should stick with them because they have a management position in mind for me when they take on additional staff (Seriously??!!). When I said that I'd have to discuss the offer with my partner, the tone of the conversation changed and I was told that I'd been paid up to January 31st and that if I didn't agree to come back I'd either have to work hours owed or repay them the money.

 

My plan now is to email all the Directors very politely declining the offer, and to ask that if they say I owe then any money, to confirm the sum involved so I can arrange repayment. I'd be very interested to see if any of them are prepared to commit to that in writing.

 

I would be very wary of the above as it may have implications with the job centre and being paid any benefits. Maybe it would not be wise to decline the offer at this time in writing, but to get them to admit the payment issue in writing as you suggested. They will be in serious doo doo if they are not even paying the minimum wage and that may be a better way to tackle it as the job centre will have to side with you and cannot penalise you because of the criminal actions of a company. Maybe others will agree or disagree.

[assisted blonde]

Agree with the above get them to put it in writing but dont put anything yourself in writing its safer that way