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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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jonni2bad v Halifax - Got the money but no default removal


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Very interesting point M how indeed ?

If you have been briefed by the latest Citi saga you will have seen that they want to bring their Financial director into the frame to speak with the Judge.

They obviously think that the appearance of the people that are able to understand the whole business might swing things.

In Johns case one wonders who would be the equivelant.......The guys from Equifax Experian and Mycol ?:rolleyes:

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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I have little doubt that your research will have been far more in depth than the Halifax legal bods, so go get 'em Jonni. If the CRA's are meant to be based on fact, then the facts are that the charges were a major contributory factor to you being overdrawn, possibly even the only factor. If the charges were removed from the records, the records are likely to reflect a completely different version of the "facts".

 

I still am not clear why they are so reluctant to remove defaults though. They are going to a lot of time and effort to fight them.

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Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I still am not clear why they are so reluctant to remove defaults though. They are going to a lot of time and effort to fight them.

 

Its the primary means for them to punish those who dont play by their rules imho.

 

Im not even sure it has anything to do with loss of money due to bad debtors either. With the way the banks lend money they should expect to loose a percentage, mind you i think i saw Abbeys PBT up by 30% or so somewhere on line, cant be that big an issue for them can it.

 

I have a claim against 1st National aka GE Money, who imposed a series of charges on my account which meant when the DD finished there was an outstanding balance from 2003 which they never wrote to me about.

 

I have late payment markers on my file as a result of this up until 3 months ago, they refuse to remove them, I cannot see why they want to argue about what to them is such a trifling matter.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

Kick the shAbbey Habit

 

Where were you? Next time please

 

 

Abbey 1st claim -Charges repaid, default removed, interest paid (8% apr) costs paid, Abbey peed off; priceless

Abbey 2nd claim, two Accs - claim issued 30-03-07

Barclaycard - Settled cheque received

Egg 2 accounts ID sent 29/07

Co-op Claim issued 30-03-07

GE Capital (Store Cards) ICO says theyve been naughty

MBNA - Settled in Full

GE Capital (1st National) Settled

Lombard Bank - SAR sent 16.02.07

MBNA are not your friends, they will settle but you need to make sure its on your terms -read here

Glenn Vs MBNA

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...I still am not clear why they are so reluctant to remove defaults though. They are going to a lot of time and effort to fight them.

 

It's just a guess, but there is always the matter of defamation of character.

 

I won't comment here as to my own circumstances, but this has potentially enormous implications for all banks.

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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True.

 

I have looked around and there is very little in the way of information about this from settled cases.

I guess with the implications you speak of (and I am fairly sure I know what you mean here )

 

That signing a conf would almost certainly be an expectation.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Also presumably they are aware that in processing your data adversly or otherwise after your account was closed without your consent was a blatant breach of the data protection act......

 

Not to pick holes at all guys, but I trust you are aware of the ICO's stance on DPA consent.....

 

S.10 is not an absolute right to stop processing, a data controller does not have to comply with a S.10 request only to respond to it. The Data Protection Act does not give individuals the right to have their personal details deleted on demand. Whilst an individual can withdraw their consent to the processing, this does not automatically mean that the processing must cease. Consent is only one of the six conditions specified under schedule 2 of the DPA. Where another condition can satisfies consent is not required.

 

As posted here recently.

 

Also,

 

It is our view that the condition for processing below (Schedule 2 part 6) covers the sharing of account data with the credit reference agencies for the duration of a contract and six years beyond.

 

"The processing is necessary for the purposes of legitimate interests pursued by the data controller or by the third party or parties to whom the data are disclosed, except where the processing is unwarranted in any particular case because of prejudice to the rights and freedoms or legitimate interests of the data subject."

 

We take a wide view of the legitimate interests and we consider that it is in the interests of other creditors to make informed lending decisions. It is important to note here that the fact that the processing may be seen by some to prejudice a particular individual (for example, someone with an adverse entry on his credit reference file may not be able to obtain credit facilities) does not necessarily render the whole processing operation prejudicial to all individuals

 

as posted here.

 

I know this isn't the main cut and thrust (so to speak) of your case as the default is considered to have been caused solely by the unlawfull charges.

 

However, be carefull of being dragged down the "you don't have my consent" angle in light of the above.

 

This post is in no way meant to sound patronising, I have HUGE respect for the work you all do and knowledge you have. If you've already considered this and are choosing to fight the ICO's interpretation I know of many threads that would love to see a victory on this!!

 

Aardvark

 

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Hi

 

I've never approached this particular default with that angle in mind and have done so solely on the basis that they have breached the DPA by making reference to a default which was caused by unlawfulness.

 

Although I too sent a s.10 notice, I was aware that the best I could hope for would be no response, or possibly just a late one.

 

Thanks for the info though - I certainly appreciate you passing that on.

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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....I guess with the implications you speak of (and I am fairly sure I know what you mean here )

 

That signing a conf would almost certainly be an expectation.

 

I would think they would certainly try! A very large settlement in itself would have to be offered to achieve it though - certainly in the region of £5k or more.

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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Wow,

What a saga, I have been completely enthralled by this thread (having just found it). I hope it all goes well and that the banks might even learn that we are not worms to be trod upon, and if they try we sometimes bite back. I find the legal aspect fascinating, as I myself had not been that interested in legal arguments until coming on this site and now find myself fascinated by normal peoples interpretations of some quite complex legal issues.

Well done all of us and go for it Jonni

19/09/2006 Halifax Prelim Letter Sent

10/11/2006 Paid into my Account £1086.84

19/02/2007 Settled remaining Contractual Interest £243.72

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:lol:rather surprised this is still ongoing, I must say you have a lovely bundle there hehe:lol:

 

 

good luck xx

 

Barclaycard Student credit card £400 partial refund received, S.A.R -

Open & Direct Finance- extortionate, cca to Rockwell debt collection they ran away, now with Bryan Carter, no cca 17/03/08 sent back to Open

Pugsley v Littlwoods, have not received the signed credit agreement only quoting reg of 1983

Pugsley v Fashion World JD williams, 17/03 2008 Debt Managers returning file to JD williams as they could not supply the credit agreement

Capital one MCOL Settled in full

Smile lba settled in full

advice is given informally and without liability and without prejudice.

 

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I've made a note of your court date on my calendar Jonni, so I don't forget to pester you to update the second you get back from court.

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I have to say, if I win this I'm spending the afternoon and evening glued to a bar stool with a constant supply of black russian on ice........

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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I have to say, if I win this I'm spending the afternoon and evening glued to a bar stool with a constant supply of black russian on ice........

In that case I will accept your absence as a sign of winning and give you permission to leave it a short while, but your public will be awaiting with baited breath. It would be just too cruel to leave us all on tenterhooks for too long.

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The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Thanks for the good luck messages all...

 

... hope u get it b4 court but hey it wont matter cos u will win anyway

 

The money is safe (along with my bus fare home) - I'm going after the default speedboat :eek:

 

bullseye.jpg

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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Good Luck Jonni

 

Will def be keeping eye on how you get on, although you are so well prepared luck doesnt come into it!!!

Marilyn:p

 

--------------------------

HALIFAX A/C - SETTLED 4 AUG

HALIFAX CC - Data Protection Act SENT 2 AUG

15/09/06 - rec'd all statements - Eventually!! -521.81GBP

21/09/06 - Prelim sent

08/10/06 - LBA sent

11/10/06 - Offer £278.10, no thanks

01/11/06 - MCOL £862.56

03/11/06 - offer £521.81 - not sure yet

03/11/06 - MCOL letter

 

 

 

 

_____________________________________-

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:lol: don't be like the banks - give a little back:lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

DONATE SO THEY CAN CARRY ON HELPING PEOPLE LIKE US!

 

There was a time before CAG but now CAG is here we are the empowered!

 

Advice & opinions given by marilyn are personal. If in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Best Wishes for Friday Jonni, hope all goes well!;-)

Woolwich won in court/default removed Barclaycard Settled Halifax settled

Capital 1Settled GE Money Settled

Egg Settled-court action re.default 4th hearing!

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good luck for 10th Jonni, we will be with you in thought:)

'rise like lions after slumber, in unvanquishable number, shake your chains to the earth like dew, which in sleep had fall'n on you, ye are many, they are few.' Percy Byshse Shelly 1819

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All the best J2B!

 

Go get 'em!

 

:cool:

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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