MARSTON HIGH COURT ENFORCEMENT - Charge for visit, No visit occured!

[alanpower]

Hello Everyone

 

Only just come across this site recently and there is alot of useful information on here, but kind of difficult to sift through it all to find a relevant case, so im starting my own!

 

My GF recieved this letter from Marston Group Bailiffs last week.

At her parents address. Not hers. You know the deal with that im sure without going into it.

 

The Fine is for putting an extra rubbish bag out next to her rubbish bin in the alley behind the house!!! Ridiculous i know. And a Metrolink fine apparently (says the courts)

But the letter does not state this! It is only for rubbish disposal offence, the bailiffs have said nothing about the Merolink offence!!! Weird!

 

So, after her speaking to the Bailiff involved and trying to tell him that it was not her address, and she did not live there or have any of her possessions there. they didnt care. And just said you have to prove it... Again, im sure some of the experienced members on here are aware of this tactic? (without going into detail)

 

So after looking at various posts on here and other sources, we came to the conclusion that it may be best to pay and challenge it after. (I know) I wouldnt have gone down this route personally but my GF was worried the Bailiffs would be able to Force access and levy on her Mum and Dads property.

 

After speaking to the Bailiffs, they obviously said they could do this via a court order given by Magistrates court (see letter below)

 

It says ''We are in possession of a Magistrates' court order''... etc

 

Id like to know what this court order is??

A liability order? A distress warrant? Are these the same?

Who issued it?

Name of Judge?

What rules do they have to follow regarding this? (why i want to see the court order)

I want to know the amount on the original court order they are allowed to demand and threaten for.

 

Problem is, We have not seen any proof of this court order! I dont trust a word they say.

We asked the bailiff for proof of the court order stated in the letter below.

They declined (i have heard they are not obliged to, is this right?)

 

So, after a lengthy battle with the phone monkey at Manchester Magistrates court i requested the document from them. She Declined! (computer says no) cough*

 

After grilling her more, she actually said she didnt know whether my GF was entitled to view/have a copy of this document.

 

So she went and asked her manager, she came back... same response... Computer says no

 

So i asked to speak to her manager. They were both quite difficult to deal with.

 

I explained that my GF is a vulnerable person and she has been suffering from depression for over 2 years now. She is on anti depressants, has had countless days of work due to this and they know about it. She has doctors notes to corroborate this. She has even spent a night in hospital a few months back for an attempted suicide. She just does not need this kind of setback in her mental health and well being. It had put her back into a more severe depression, and i am worried. And angry!

 

The court just said it isnt our problem anymore. Speak to the bailiffs.

 

I said, we have done. And they dont care. She offered to pay in installments as she is full time at college and part time at work. (Hard enough just doing that but im proud of her for keeping it up)

 

The bailiffs declined this offer of installments and insisted she pay up in full within 7 days otherwise they send the boys in!

So the debt has been paid! She was too scared to challenge these claims. (maybe rightfully so?)

 

BUT. Im not lying down that easily. Now we have the time to properly challenge this whole process and hold someone accountable for this disgraceful action.

 

Back to my phone conversation with the fines manager at Manchester Mags.

(Dont know why it is Manchester when the original offence took place in Trafford!) Anyway...

 

Sorry...

 

Eventually, the manager said she could SHOW us the court order if we come down to Manchester Magistrates court (Crown square)

 

But we can have a copy and we cant even touch it? Are these people for real???

Surely if we had a solicitor involved in this, they would be entitled to a copy of this documentation?

But hey. What do i know?

 

So. We are going down to the court tomorrow (Friday the end of the world 21.12.12)

To see what this court order is and how much it is for and what it is for.

I will let you all know what happened as soon as i can.

 

Also!! Another important point to mention. The Bailiffs have applied automatic charges on top of this fine.

 

1 is an automatic charge for the case - Compliance fee applied to every case. £85

2 is ... - Attendance fee applied once an enforcement agent has attended the premises, including where no action is taken or no contact is made. £215!!

 

This is the problem. There is no proof that they attended her mum and dads property!

As they didnt leave any letter saying they had.

The first letter recieved there was posted.

We have the envolope and stamp on it from royal mail.

 

So there was no visit. So why can they charge £215 for something they didnt do!

 

This whole thing stinks!!

 

Ok. Im going to leave this post there for now.

 

Id appreciate if someone could could get back to me before tomorrow afternoon if at all possible.

Just so i have a bit more knowledge about this when i am challenging it.

 

If possible, i would very much appreciate it if Hallowitch could respond as i have heard this poster talk about these issues before and seems very knowledgable!

 

Thanks in advance.

Im so glad there are sites like this and good people to help on these matters

 

Cheers

Al

[alanpower]

Oh well. It seems computer says no here too.

No images allowed before 1st 10 posts.

Helpful!

 

Can anyone help me get the letter in here please?

 

Cheers

Al

[alanpower]

sa

[alanpower]

sdafd

[ploddertom]

Scan your docs and make them into a PDF file then attach to your message - take all personal identifiers out.

[alanpower]

Cheers Ploddertom

[gerson]

Hi,

 

 

Use this method

 

 

Quote:

Dx100 – Instructions on uploading pdfs

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

go to one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

 

 

 

G

[sgtbush]

long story but here is a few answers

 

the warrant will be a distress warrant

 

vunrability will require some sort of proof, like a doctors letter, proof of medication or something like that if its accepted then the court will more than likely take the case back in house, but this may not happen, its there decision ( the court)

 

 

ARRANGEMENTS

the bailiff company does not have to accept any offer, this is on a warrant , but its the norm for them to take a part payment and have an arrangemnt to pay during the lifetime of the warrant of distress ( 180 days from issue)

 

FEES

 

when a warrant of distress is issued £215 is added for enforcement of the warrant and £85 admin fee is added, these fees are set by the court, their are no fees such as visit fees

 

regarding the visit

you have had a letter in the post i take it, you may of also of had a personal visit, a letter does not have to be left at the personal visit as the enforcment officer may feel he will try to catch her in or see the new occupier ( her parents) and establish that she no longer lives their

he will obviously try to get the currant address of her but they dont have to tell him, but the court will eventually trace her on their own

 

the reason the letter will of been delivered to your parents address is that will either be the last known address of her, or she has given the address her-self

the parents dont need to worry but they do have to prove that they live their , copy of council tax bill sent to the bailiff company with a covering letter stating that the relitive no longer lives here, moved out in xx-xx-xx.

this will trigger it going back to court but then the court will do a DWP search for her and get any other addresses they can find for her

SEEING THE WARRANT

you could try to ask the bailiff the client ref number, this will be the case number for it

and you can view the warrant at the court, regarding copies of it, im unsure

 

 

im sure ploddertom and TT will be along soon to give more advice on the matter

 

hope you get it sorted

[alanpower]

Pdf of letter attached

[alanpower]

Thank you to the people who have replied so far.

I am at work at the moment. I suppose i should be doing some!

 

I will get back on this later

 

Thanks again

Al

[TB Law]

these fees are set by the

 

I am sorry but that advice is not right.

 

The court does not set any fees for enforcement of court fines.

 

The figures you have quoted are contained in a document called the Enforcement Services Contract which sets the terms of operation between the HM Court Service and the four companies contracted for the enforement of unpaid court fines.

[TB Law]

these fees are set by the court,

 

 

I am sorry but that advice is not right.

 

The court does not set any fees for enforcement of court fines.

 

The figures you have quoted are contained in a document called the Enforcement Services Contract which sets the terms of operation between the HM Court Service and the four companies contracted for the enforement of unpaid court fines.

[sgtbush]

read properly, the fees are set by the court and no more can be added in visitation fees

 

If you are convicted in the Magistrates' Courts, you would receive a financial penalty which is payable to the Magistrates Court and if this remains unpaid, a Distress Warrant can be issued and passed by the courts to any one of the 4 bailiff companies under Contract by HMCS to enforce these warrants. The companies are Marston Group, Philips Collection Services , Swift Credit Services and Excel Enforcement Ltd. Swift and Excel enforce Distress Warrant issued by Magistrates Courts in Wales.

 

Under these Contracts, HMCS have agreed with each company that they may charge the debtor an "admin fee" of approx £85 together with a one off "attendance fee" which has recently increased to £215.

 

 

why not try to help the OP with answers instead of ambulance chasing the miniscule details of someones post who is trying to help

i could of course wrote a 1000 word essay on who sets what and how and when it was revised, but i shrunk the reply to fit a short consise answer

dont steer the post off topic

Edited December 20, 2012 by sgtbush

[TB Law]

Marston can ask the defaulter to pay it, but nothing in the contract says the defaulter has to pay it nor the bailiff company enforce payment.

 

If the defaulter does not want to pat £300 of hard cash, he does not have to.

[sgtbush]

your right,

unfortunatly if a debtor agrees to pay £500, £200 being the fine and £300 being the fees guess which proportion if the debt is paid 1st?

 

answers on a postcard to................

 

 

and if the debtor defaults then it goes back to court as unenforced and the courts may issue a warrant of commital

 

last comment as going off topic

[TB Law]

Back on topic.

 

alanpower, if this fine is genuine, then the test of the fact you are only liable for the fine amount can be executed in the following manner and saving you £300 in the process.

 

 

 

Identify and locate the sentencing court.

 

Go in person and pay the fine at court – and get a RECEIPT.

 

There is an ATM-like machine in the court lobby to pay fines.

 

It will NEVER ask you to pay the bailiffs £300 fees because the court service knows you do not have to pay them.

 

Court ushers are on hand to advise you how to use it and when you are done the Distress Warrant is expunged.

[TB Law]

read properly, the fees are set by the court and no more can be added

 

I am sorry but I am afraid that advice is not right either.

 

The bailiff can add fees provided he has lawfully executed distrain over the defaulters goods, the law in this case is Part 52.8 of the Criminal Procedure Rules 2011. However these costs are deducted from the proceeds of sale and the balance paid to the defaulter.

[old bill]

Regarding the lack of assistance you received from Manchester Magistrates Court, ring the court again and ask to speak to Mr Scott Rennem, who is the Area HMCTS Enforcement Manager for the Greater Manchester area. Any complains about bailiff companies contracted to HMCTS should be directed to Area HMCTS Enforcement Mangers, in the first instance, followed by a formal complaint to the HMCTS Regional Contracts Manager.