Welcome Finance any dealings???

[soli2006]

Bit of movement today, and i need some advice please. Received a letter today (dated 22/11) from Hillesden Securities who are the parent company (i think) of the dca (DLC) acting for Welcome. They have acknowledged my CCA request but state "as we are an agency acting on behalf of our client Welcome Financial Services, you will need to forward this request to them. As a result, we are returning your postal order for £1 received with this request".

 

Now, firstly they are a few days late in even replying. But more importantly, my letter clearly states:

 

"1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number 18809979. This payment is for the CCA information only & is NOT to be put towards the debt.

 

2. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities".

 

Item 3 seems pretty specific to me "Whether you are the original creditor or not". Couldn't be plainer. Where do i go from here? They've basically totally ignored the request, passing the buck back to welcome claiming its nothing to do with them. What action should i now take? Do i report them? Write to them again? Is this debt now unenforceable? HELP!

 

Any advice gratefully received.

 

 

 

[martinpar]

Are they not correct? They are meerly acting as debt collectors by the sound of it. The act would only cover them if they had bought the debt I thought. However, they cannot take any further enforcement action while you are disputing the debt.

 

I may well be wrong but that is what I understood.

[soli2006]

No problem - i shall issue a CCA request to Welcome then. I have already issued an SAR.

[breadline]

They could have easily requested the aggrerement be sent out from welcome if its welcome they are working for, if they haven't brought the debit it means that they are in your debit with Welcome, there for conversations and paperwork take place regarding your loan between the 2 of them.

 

If they had paid for the loan there would be no links left.

 

As they are debit collecting you have a right to ask them on what grounds they are collecting and you should be shown evidence that they are collecting for Welcome, and as your debit is still based with Welcome Finance then you would be better sending the CCA to Welcome

Atleast they collectors know now your debit will be in dispute.

 

i havent known welcome collect with an outside collector, they usually sell or right off. Maybe this is an internal set up.?

[soli2006]

Just had the reply to my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) via recorded delivery from Welcome - including the original agreement by the look of it. Ah - the 'original agreement' that they so proudly boast they have supplied isn't the original - its unsigned for starters. One glaring error too: my partner wasn't living with me at the time we took out this loan, yet his address on this 'agreement' has been written in as the same as mine! It looks as if this has been made out & sent to me as they haven't got the original. This is a recently completed form. And there's no reference to the PPI anywhere. What now?

[breadline]

They can send a true copy of what your agreement would have looked like, but unless they have an original they dont stand a chance in court.

 

I would write back and dispute the copy doesn't look like the agreement I signed therefore, please send me a copy of the signed agreement.

 

They can send a copy of what the agreement looked like, but with out the original who can prove wether what you have recieved is a true copy or not. You can say for example that your address was not combined with your partners on teh one you signed.

 

Account should still be in dispute and your agreement will be in your file at your local branch or which ever branch is asking you for the money all this running around when they could just pull it out and show you:rolleyes:

Head office has duplicate when you signed it, the branch have another.

[soli2006]

Breadline - it seems to me that they don't have anything relating to the original agreement. Shouldn't the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) response have details of the PPI policy for example - such as a copy of the policy/schedule? There's absolutely nothing about that at all. All they have included is this mocked-up 'ageement', a statement of account, a 'crib sheet' type list of phone callas etc, a letter i wrote to the branch a year ago (not replied to by the way) & a direct debit mandate taken out when i changed banks. Thats it.

[version302003]

Ive heard on the grapevine welcome finance are not fsa due to the fact they charge too much interest.My friend still owes them £6000 and she ignored all the letters about court procedings an stuff and eventually they stopped sending them an she hasnt heard a thing for 2 years!

 

 

That's strange because i did the same thing, and now its statute barred.

 

I don't recommend this to anyone though.

[ban-WCF]

Dear all,

I am glad that I found this web forum. I was looking on the Internet to find out about the Welcome Car Finance before I made any dealings with them in July 06. They are absolutely s**t ! I will never ever recommend them to anyone !!! Any one who are reading this don’t ever go to them.

They offered me easily a £1000 cash back and £250 towards my insurance...these offers are absolutely rubbish...whoever read this in future don’t go to them. Learn from our BAD lessons.

They will offer you £1000 cash back from the screen price which is far higher than what you pay to a genuine car seller...The car which I bought was priced at £8,000+ on the screen, which was never advertised outside... When I checked the true value of the car it is just over £3000...so anyone can offer £ 1000 + cash back... in their stock car prices are closely guarded and closed! They will never disclosed it to consumers before they arrive in to their premises. They know they can confuse customers with various things to distact from the true car value. These cars were stored in a hanger, even a person passing by will not be able to see the prices...other [problem] is they will offer you a £ 250 cash back towards your insurance, in return they sold a poxy car wash kit for £299 !! on a 29% APR loan. The actual value of this kit is not more than £ 20!!

I don’t want to make this any longer...but I will contribute to this site soon with more bad experience with them....Why they exist among us? I cant believe!!

[soli2006]

Where has everyone gone from thsi forum? Feelin a bit abandoned in my fight against Welcome.

[Smoothy]

I havnt left.....just waiting for something to happen!!

But youre right...SAR Should include details of any charges made to your account number. I may not be 100% correct, but, if they dont provide everything relating to your account, isnt that a contravention of Data protection act? and in doin so doesnt it make the debt unenforceable?

 

Confirmation or critisism would help me get on the right track!!

 

Smoothy

[soli2006]

I'm sending a CCA request tomorrow toWelcome for a 'true copy' of the alleged agreement after they sent me a recently (and no doubt hastily) writtem one in answer to my SAR. Incidentally - there are a several versions of the CCA letter. Some say 'true copy', others say 'true signed copy'. Which is correct? I think the fact that they don't appear to have a copy of my original agreement could be game-over. We'll see. I'll keep you all up to date.

[breadline]

Hiya Yeap S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) should cover everything, but thats why peeps are falling back on to the CCA as so many places are no fulfilling the SAR, sadly theres no solid steps for taking court action regarding the SAR failure or the CCA as if there was i think the courts would have close down:D

 

I wouldn't advise ignoring a debit unless it satute barred you could end up in a heap of problems.

[martinpar]

I wouldn't advise ignoring a debit unless it satute barred you could end up in a heap of problems.

 

Yes. Don't forget an awful lot of Welcome loans are secured and I don't think it's very likely they would go away when they have security.

 

There's been a very good discussion about the requirements of a CCA request regarding original copies and the upshot seems to be that , due to amending legislation it is only necessary for them to produce a copy of what the agreement would have looked like without signatures or other specific information. This is because the CCA sections 77-79 were only intended to ascertain that the credit agreement complied with the act, not that the debt existed. However, if no copy of the executed agreement with signatures on can be produced they would have a hard time convincing a court that it is enforceable.

 

The discussion will be found here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-bailiffs-advice/43666-debt-collection-agencies-consumer.html#post346273

[carinas]

Where has everyone gone from thsi forum? Feelin a bit abandoned in my fight against Welcome.

 

 

just waiting too! 13 days left until S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) times up!

[soli2006]

CCA to Welcome posted this morning. Lets see what that brings........

[soli2006]

The response i got to my SAR included nothing to do with my PPI. Am i right in expecting that i should have been supplied with ALL info relating to my loan - including the PPI?

[Grapes]

Same here.

Most of the info we received from Welcome was bad photocopies of stuff we had sent them.

Nothing to do with the insurances. Although we did learn to our shock that the cheeky beggars had taken out Mortgage Indemnity Insurance and we were paying for it plus interest! Amazing ....

[soli2006]

Same - all we got was a bad photocopy of a letter i sent almost a year ago, a statement of account, a 'list' of phone calls & alleged home visits (we've never received one home visit), a list of letters sent (we've received three EVER) & a recently made out, unsigned loan agreement with the wrong addresses on it. That was it. No reference to insurances, no explanation of 'fees', no record of the other 20-odd letters i've sent Nothing. As i say, i've fired off a CCA today asking for a 'true copy' of the agreement. I'll see now what response i get to that. My guess is, they have nothing more to send me.

[technique1966]

Sounds interesting, I've had a letter back asking if my SAR relates to 'anything in particular as we may be able to find it quicker'. Errrr no, I'll just have everything please.

[Grapes]

We have decided that is more but we are never going to see it!

So now its down to getting back every penny in their rubbish insurances and all the charges etc etc than we will see how much we actually owe at the end!

[soli2006]

Grapes - did they send you a signed copy of your original agreement? And surely if they fail to send everything in accordance with data protection & your SAR they are breaking the law & the account stays in dispute until they do?

[Grapes]

Well there is a signed agreement in the drivel they sent us but I dont remember signing for all the insurance etc. Its odd becuase it is typed up, not completed by hand as per the 2nd loan it morphed into.

[fairclaire]

I have read this thread all the way through with great interest! Can't believe so many are in the same boat with welcome as i am.

 

I have had three loans from them...well one loan and 2 top up loans. Usual story..basically couldn't get help anywhere else, knew the interest was way high etc..but i was desperate.

 

The situation now is that I stopped paying about a year ago. My circumstances changed drastically and I had to stop paying as i just couldn't afford it. Not just welcome but a few other debts i had too.

 

After they plagued me to death with phonecalls (worst thing was they had my work number and were leaving messages with my colleagues!!) I caved in and agreed to 'reduced' payments. These amounted to about a third of my original monthly instalment. They telephone me every month (at work!) and I agree to have the money debited from my debit card. This is still going on because I was caused so much embarassment at work....if i don't agree they keep calling.

 

A few months ago I started to ask for statements to see how much I still owe as they never send statements of any sort. I was fobbed off, told they would be sent and they still haven't been. Today at work I got the usual monthly phonecall asking if they could take the usual payment from my debit card and I said NO! I explained that I had asked 3 times for statements and had recieved nothing. He promised he would look into it and call me back.

 

He did call me back. First of all he had the cheek to ask if I would increase my monthly payments in return for them wiping out half of what I owe. My answer to that was no...christmas....kids...can't afford any more just now.

 

Then the shock....I still owe them £3,737! The last loan was for £3000 over 3 years(part paid the second top up and I was left with the rest). I paid full installments for just over 2 year sbefore I couldn't pay and agreed to the reduced payments. I am absolutely gutted that I still owe more than I borrowed. I don't know what I expected but feel like i've been paying for nothing all these months.

 

I have only recently joined this site and am so! geared up to get something done about the three things that have been the bane of my life since (through no fault of my own) my financial situation went down the toilet.

Bank Charges

Reposessed car

and now

Welcome Finance

 

I will be sending for SAR and CCA very soon and will keep posted of progress. I will also keep reading this thread with interest. Thanks to all for great advice

[seylectric]

There is a serious offence going on here if they informed other people at your workplace. This is a private matter, "defamation of character" springs to mind.

 

Unfortunately this is one of those areas where solicitors and so on apparently fear to tread. I have been claiming for a long time that the stress and harrassment caused by the way the likes of Welcome Finance, bailiffs, DCAs etc. operate should be compensated for and it's about time this issue was taken more seriously.

 

Try talking to a solicitor, Citizens Advice, the trade associations they belong to and just about anybody else you care to name that is supposed to be there to help and all you get is "are you in a position to pay the debt? (plus the costs, charges etc. ) "

 

Everybody wants to advise you on how to pay, nobody gives a toss about the fact that these people are destroying lives for profit and it's about time somebody somewhere started to take this issue seriously. It's not an offence to owe money but it hasn't stopped people taking their own life, yet more protection is afforded to a suicidal banged-up murderer. It's a national disgrace and something needs to change.