ESA claimants face increased sanctions if they breach work plans

[estellyn]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/sep/03/disabled-benefits-claimants-fines-work

 

 

Unacceptable.

[vicky87]

This is just getting way beyond a joke now. Why not just stick a cyanide pill in the post for all those who are unfit to work and get it over and done with.

[geoffthechef]

Speechless..

[debt4get]

words absolutely fail me!!!! also read the comments section, at least most of the people, seem to realise that this is beyond sick.....this government has to go, either by fair means or foul...they are nothing more than ****...

[Nystagmite]

Disgusting. Can someone please explain how these plans are different to current JSA stuff? It looks the same to me.

[SWLABR9]

Sanctions can't just be handed out willy-nilly, there's procedures they have to go through to make it legal. Everyone should brush up on the procedures and be prepared to ask for evidence they've been followed. Everyone should be asking their MPs for help too. Clarke said in the House people should turn to their MPs for legal advice and I bet you when enough people are bothering their MPs this nonsense will end. A lot of run-of-the-mill MPs will be horrified by this as well, I can't believe it's the policy of the party as a whole.

[debt4get]

Sanctions can't just be handed out willy-nilly, there's procedures they have to go through to make it legal. Everyone should brush up on the procedures and be prepared to ask for evidence they've been followed. Everyone should be asking their MPs for help too. Clarke said in the House people should turn to their MPs for legal advice and I bet you when enough people are bothering their MPs this nonsense will end. A lot of run-of-the-mill MPs will be horrified by this as well, I can't believe it's the policy of the party as a whole.

that is ok for some of us, but some people with mental health issues will not understand nor will they be able to cope, their money will be stopped for not turning up or turning up late, or not being able to complete the 'slave labour' conditions...this is wrong morally, ethically, and i would even go as far to say criminally, the great paralympic legacy goes on hey!!!

[debt4get]

i have just re-read the piece posted, and the govts view is that the 'agreement' is that people in wrag group in order to keep receiving their full entitlement can be made to attend 'work' placements unlimited time period...what i cannot find unlike the JSA 'agreement' is where anyone who gets ESA has signed to say that in order to keep receiving payment they must perform these activities...there is some agreement about 'work focused interviews' but nothing about 'work placements' could this be a means of using the legislation in order to contest. or will they just close that loophole with a new form?

[Nystagmite]

With the interviews, do you have to do anything? Or can the interviewer just say "you could look into doing this" and you can do whatever?

[debt4get]

under the new regs, you can be 'told' you must attend 'work focused interviews' or even be told that you 'must' go to work placements with unlimited weeks or lose benefit up to £71.00 per week....so it is not going to be the case of 'you could look into doing this' it is going to be 'you MUST look do this'

[Nystagmite]

Ridiculous. How can people then become well enough to work if all this pressure is being put on them? Yes, some could probably work if they had more help than JSA; but not this.

[Like-Im-Being-Ripped-Off]

Right you lot as i said before we must fight! it's getting so out of hand now, i been saying this for a long time something drastic needs to be done, if we were french they would not get away with it us as so called british do nothing. i now am sick of this goverment it's time to make a stand otherwise it will keep going on...untill were bleed dry.

[stephen2010]

I've just been put on the work related group today.Think I'll go to appeal and try and get a letter from my doctor.

[Like-Im-Being-Ripped-Off]

I've just been put on the work related group today.Think I'll go to appeal and try and get a letter from my doctor.

 

 

Good luck your gonna need it!

[DwrCymru]

I had my err, "assessment", was seen by a real doctor who knew about my condition and to cut a long story short I got 15 points, and the prognosis was that I should not work and that I am unlikely to get any better. The DWP phoned me up a week or so after the assessment and informed me over the phone that I had been placed in the "WRAG", I queried this and the young woman said "It was to prepare me for possible work in the future".

 

So basically the ATOS HCP said I can't work and I won't improve but the DWP decision maker placed me in the WRAG, I have already requested a re-consideration. Not sure what this will achieve but I'm eligible for pension credits and don't need to attend any of these "work related interviews".

 

Dave

[RaeUK]

With apologies to Martin Niemoller ...

 

First they came for the unemployed,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't unemployed.

 

Then they came for the sick,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't sick.

 

Then they came for the disabled,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't disabled.

 

Then they came for me,

and there was no one left to speak for me.

[DwrCymru]

Well, they came for me and I ain't going down without screaming and shouting.

 

Dave

[RaeUK]

Indeed, Dave. The original is a well known quote. It sprung to mind because I was reading this thread and thinking 'Phew! Thank God I've got a degenerative lung disease and I'm too ill for all this nonsense'. Then I realised that those to whom it applies are simply keeping the death squads occupied until it's my turn ...

[DwrCymru]

Keep the death squads at bay by simply being alive.

[estellyn]

the difficulty is that in order to get into the support group you have to be severely disabled by your condition - not just unable to work, but barely able to live a life either.

 

The criterion for the WRAG don't actually apply to a lot of people who in reality cannot do any work - for instance if you cannot sit and cannot stand without severe pain, you cannot work, however this wouldn't actually get you enough points to be in the WRAG, let alone the support group. If you have something causing chronic severe diarrhea and pain, as long as you are not incontinent, you are considered fit for work - but would most people be able to work with crippling stomach pains and diarrhea 20 times a day? Many mental health problems preclude work entirely, but don't enable inclusion into the support group.

 

The problem is that the redefining of what it means to be too sick and disabled to work, has no basis at all in reality. For instance, with spinal and joint problems, I can lie propped up on my side and use a laptop, so I could do some work, and indeed would happily accept work that I could do at home on the laptop and fit around chronic crohns, however I'm never going to be given that work. Luckily I'm in the support group - but only until the next assessment when like everyone, I roll the dice. But take someone who only has chronic crohns and is incontinenet only when they can't get to a toilet in time - maybe they're in the work group. They have diarrhea many times a day, need their own designated toilet, may need many sick days off every year - who is going to give this person a job??? maybe if you have some spectacular special skills, or are a genius, accomodations will be made for you, but most of us aren't, and those accomodations wouldn't be considered reasonable by most employers, and certainly wouldn't be made for a work placement. Could you imagine Tesco agreeing that you can work within 20 feet of your own designated toilet? mental health accomodations are much harder to make. I know someone who is on the autistic spectrum and has severe anxiety. He can't work anywhere where he would need to talk to people or deal with anything stressful - and when I say people, he won't even go into a shop if he has to ask for what he wants, or speak to a shop assistant - how do you accomodate that?

 

whoever designed these descriptors do not live in the real world. Someone on here suggested that these descriptors should be applied to general work related sickness in order to get SSP and sick pay - I wholeheartedly agree. Things would change pretty darn fast if Mr Working person found that they had to go into work with illnesses such as food poisoning - sorry diarrhea, vomiting and stomach pain aren't in the descriptors so no sick pay for you. Put your back out? Well you do a combination of sitting and standing, so no sick pay for you. Flu? Sorry, general malaise and fatigue aren't in the descriptors.

[45002]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/sep/03/disabled-benefits-claimants-fines-work

 

 

Unacceptable.

 

This is a parting gift from CG and mostly to please the right wing of the Tory party

[debt4get]

if you look carefully at the new legislation, it aint gonna matter much whether you are in the wrag or support group, they are looking at extending this to support group as well.....to the above poster, yes we need a revolution, but with everyone fighting their own corner,, and when you sick this is difficult enough to do in order to hang on to the pittance they give you, then organising a fight is gonna be an uphill battle...but i will be there. but fear we are going to get nowhere

[debt4get]

Claimants can be placed into two groups: the support group, who are deemed to be much further away from the workplace and have few conditions placed on their benefit claim; and the Wrag group, who are assessed to be capable of taking steps towards moving into work immediately and must undertake a range of activities to help get them back to work.

 

so the support group who are deemed to be much further away from the workplace...but not note incapable of work and remaining on benefits ad infinitum....remember 'no-one should be dependent on benefits for life'

[45002]

Surely it would have been easier to change ESA name to JSA

[Nystagmite]

Surely it would have been easier to change ESA name to JSA

 

Exactly. Can't see the difference between the two at the moment.