ESA say im fit for work,JSA say im not??

[Nystagmite]

When I argued, he said I cant have been there when he was diagnosed so how would I know

 

I would have replied with well, you weren't there when he was diagnosed, were you! Unless the judge is medically trained and has access to your son's medical records, I don't understand how he can say these things.

 

RE: housing benefit - he doesn't need to be claiming ESA to claim housing benefit. He can claim due to being on a low income.

[SWLABR9]

I agree about the housing benefit. I fear you've been ill-advised by any solicitor who suggests otherwise, unless you've told them of some aspect you've not shared here.

[danny222]

I would have replied with well, you weren't there when he was diagnosed, were you! Unless the judge is medically trained and has access to your son's medical records, I don't understand how he can say these things.

 

RE: housing benefit - he doesn't need to be claiming ESA to claim housing benefit. He can claim due to being on a low income.

 

I couldnt believe the rubbish the Judge came out with....tier 2 tribunal here I come!!!

 

We tried the housing benifit claim based on no income and they couldnt put the claim through as his income is zero! Had his DLA stopped at same time as the ESA (applied again for that - not heard anything back yet). They had to base the claim on him getting ESA!! Its crazy - they basically said he couldnt apply as his income was too low and they needed to put an income on the form!

[SWLABR9]

Now this is interesting because what does it suggest for people after April next year when they'll be effectively denied income while waiting for a reconsideration? People who won't be able to claim either JSA or ESA I mean. This needs sorting out and quickly too.

[danny222]

Now this is interesting because what does it suggest for people after April next year when they'll be effectively denied income while waiting for a reconsideration? People who won't be able to claim either JSA or ESA I mean. This needs sorting out and quickly too.

 

It does need sorting, I dont hold out much hope though!!!

 

The DWP told us my son was fit for work so could not get ESA (based on his inability to attend ATOS medical) but was unfit for work in relation to JSA!!! The same person told me that during the same phone call - the system is a complete disaster. I feel sorry for all the other people who are going through the same as us.

 

So many are going to be left with no income, seems like they are trying to drive people to suicide. I feel like I cant cope with it all anymore and Im not the one who is ill, its my son. I dread to think what happens to people who have no support at all, doesnt bare thinking about xxx

[SWLABR9]

It's being suggested they're trying to simply 'disappear' a lot of people off benefits so they can do away with the welfare state to make way for private insurance companies to move in. Obviously a lot of people, the sort of people who can't be expected to take out insurance, are no good to this new regime and so apparently are simpy being excluded from the benefits system. I doubt the government cares whether people live or die, it just wants them gone.

[hensteeth]

I couldnt believe the rubbish the Judge came out with....tier 2 tribunal here I come!!!

 

We tried the housing benifit claim based on no income and they couldnt put the claim through as his income is zero! Had his DLA stopped at same time as the ESA (applied again for that - not heard anything back yet). They had to base the claim on him getting ESA!! Its crazy - they basically said he couldnt apply as his income was too low and they needed to put an income on the form!

 

In a way I can understand the reluctance of the LA to award benefit when there is absolutely no income coming in. It's hard enough trying to convince them when you do have an income. To me it seems that they view every claimant as having criminal intent trying to claim for HB/CTB illegally.

 

How someone is supposed to convince them that there is no income coming in, yet are managing to live on a day to day basis, I don't know.

 

Yes the link between DLA & ESA is becoming more widely used by the DWP. Not right at all, as there is very little in common apart from mobility. Yet it now seems that fail the ESA assessment will mean a review of the DLA award. It's one certain way of making people paranoid and probably closing their ESA claim to ensure continuation of DLA! I know that is how I am feeling. Having to accept the loss of £100 of ESA to retain the £100 of DLA!

 

The whole thing (reform) has gone too far - if people are actually having to put up with no income for weeks/months and then having to decide which benefit means more to them.

 

Thank God I am too old to be involved to any greater extent.

 

It has never been like this in the past. You always knew that there would be financial support.

[SWLABR9]

I think in your case you could have said you were applying for a hardship loan. I doubt this will work after next April though as I understand they're being stopped. Does anyone have any ideas about how to approach this new problem?

[hensteeth]

Now this is interesting because what does it suggest for people after April next year when they'll be effectively denied income while waiting for a reconsideration? People who won't be able to claim either JSA or ESA I mean. This needs sorting out and quickly too.

 

But once again isn't this entirely down to those that played the system - claim ESA - have medical - fail - appeal - fail - claim ESA - have medical etc etc etc??

A sytem that guaranteed payment of ESA at the assessment rate in exchange for a sick note. Ironically, the assessment rate of ESA is identical in money terms as JSA. So why bother having to put up with everything that JSA throws at you when you can sit back and get paid the same rate for nothing.

 

They have abused the generous appeal system to such an extent that they have had to do something to stop them.

Unfortunately everyone gets caught up in the fall out.

[hensteeth]

It does need sorting, I dont hold out much hope though!!!

 

The DWP told us my son was fit for work so could not get ESA (based on his inability to attend ATOS medical) but was unfit for work in relation to JSA!!! The same person told me that during the same phone call - the system is a complete disaster. I feel sorry for all the other people who are going through the same as us.

 

So many are going to be left with no income, seems like they are trying to drive people to suicide. I feel like I cant cope with it all anymore and Im not the one who is ill, its my son. I dread to think what happens to people who have no support at all, doesnt bare thinking about xxx

 

No I think they are trying to drive people into work. Unfortunately those who are genuinely unable to work are having to suffer the consequences caused by the minority. If everyone had played fair with the system in the past, we wouldn't be in this mess now!

[SWLABR9]

How someone is supposed to convince them that there is no income coming in, yet are managing to live on a day to day basis, I don't know.

 

Might be difficult right now but don't forget they'll regularly be presented with people who have no income at all pending a reconsideration, not just for an ESA appeal but for all other claimant appeals also. I wonder if they're (the housing benefit people) at all prepared? I will draw readers' attention to the new law passed by the Coalition about evictions/repossessions. If you're two months behind with the rent and the property owners apply for eviction, repossession is mandatory. So, as it stands people who fail their Atos testing wil not only become destitute but homeless too in short order. I wonder if the big housing and landlords associations are aware of this and what they might say to IDS and Grayling if they were? I doubt they'd be too pleased as it'll severely rock their world.

[SWLABR9]

No I think they are trying to drive people into work. Unfortunately those who are genuinely unable to work are having to suffer the consequences caused by the minority. If everyone had played fair with the system in the past, we wouldn't be in this mess now!

 

Clearly they aren't trying to drive people into work, they've just made the Remploy workers redundant (for example) and there's no work to drive people into, particularly disabled people. I think you're confusing the CAG bannerhead with one that reads Daily Mail or Express.

[SWLABR9]

Nice try but... these aren't medicals. They're assessments. They don't use the long-established and verified medical model. They use the biopsychosocial so-called model, something which recently sprang into existence when it was scrawled on the back of a fag packet by a few bent academics to satsify their DWP and insurance company paymasters. It has no scientific validity nor medical merit at all. The tests have nothing to do with the real world. Grayling himself has said so. Very ill people have no choice but to reapply for ESA when they are wrongly categorised as fot to work, a phrase with no legal meaning, by the way. They should not be put in the position of having to reapply in the first place but hey, if you test people with a non realworld test and then use it to take realworld benefits (life support for many people) away, then what do you expect people to do?.

[K301982P]

Let the Government carry on, In my opinion there will be riots left, right and centre soon the way things are going!! much worse than those last year.

[RaeUK]

But once again isn't this entirely down to those that played the system - claim ESA - have medical - fail - appeal - fail - claim ESA - have medical etc etc etc??

... They have abused the generous appeal system to such an extent that they have had to do something to stop them. ...

 

Excuse me, hensteeth, but I really do need to take issue with your remarks. As you know very well, I have claimed ESA - had 'medical' - fail - appeal - fail - claim ESA etc etc etc. So don't mind me taking your scurrilous comments personally. There is only one sickness benefit available to those with a long-term illness. ESA. Nowt else. To lie about my health and claim JSA would be tantamount to fraud. So, how's that 'playing the system'? And don't even think about accusing me of taking the ESA route instead of JSA. Like many in my position, I had to give up a damned good and well paid job for life on your easy street.

But, whilst we're on the subject of 'playing the system' I'd define that as somebody who claims HRM on DLA whilst happily boasting that buses and trains are such an easy form of transport for them to use. Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to leave you gazing into that mirror whilst I go and plot how else I can con the tax payer ...

[worried33]

In a way I can understand the reluctance of the LA to award benefit when there is absolutely no income coming in. It's hard enough trying to convince them when you do have an income. To me it seems that they view every claimant as having criminal intent trying to claim for HB/CTB illegally.

 

How someone is supposed to convince them that there is no income coming in, yet are managing to live on a day to day basis, I don't know.

 

Yes the link between DLA & ESA is becoming more widely used by the DWP. Not right at all, as there is very little in common apart from mobility. Yet it now seems that fail the ESA assessment will mean a review of the DLA award. It's one certain way of making people paranoid and probably closing their ESA claim to ensure continuation of DLA! I know that is how I am feeling. Having to accept the loss of £100 of ESA to retain the £100 of DLA!

 

The whole thing (reform) has gone too far - if people are actually having to put up with no income for weeks/months and then having to decide which benefit means more to them.

 

Thank God I am too old to be involved to any greater extent.

 

It has never been like this in the past. You always knew that there would be financial support.

 

I think the old IB walking assessment had very similiar guidelines to DLA HRM.

 

This link has always existed where they will stop one benefit for failed claim of another.

 

3-4 years back I did a failed claim for DLA, it was on the basis I couldnt walk 50metres. My previous IB assessment which was about 9 months prior gave me 15 points for walking.

 

The DLA claim was turned down without even a medical which I thought was very bad, and I lost the tribunal on the basis that I had made it there, shocking as well.

 

Within a week I had a early IB50 form sent to me and a WFI interview booked. (these did exist also on IB but had no sanctions).

 

In a discussion with JCP about cancelling the WFI I was told this was alltriggered by the failed DLA claim. It was agreed the WFI was deffered dependent on the findings of the new assessment.

 

I got 15 points on the early IB assessment and the WFI was swiftly cancelled with an apology as well. When I asked if I could use my 15 point medical report as evidence for DLA tho I was told cant be done. So one rule for them and another for us.

 

If I get put into ESA SG its quite possible I will cancel my current DLA appeal, so I dont get the risk of a failed DLA appeal triggering a ESA review.

[hensteeth]

I think the old IB walking assessment had very similiar guidelines to DLA HRM.

 

This link has always existed where they will stop one benefit for failed claim of another.

 

3-4 years back I did a failed claim for DLA, it was on the basis I couldnt walk 50metres. My previous IB assessment which was about 9 months prior gave me 15 points for walking.

 

The DLA claim was turned down without even a medical which I thought was very bad, and I lost the tribunal on the basis that I had made it there, shocking as well.

 

Within a week I had a early IB50 form sent to me and a WFI interview booked. (these did exist also on IB but had no sanctions).

 

In a discussion with JCP about cancelling the WFI I was told this was alltriggered by the failed DLA claim. It was agreed the WFI was deffered dependent on the findings of the new assessment.

 

I got 15 points on the early IB assessment and the WFI was swiftly cancelled with an apology as well. When I asked if I could use my 15 point medical report as evidence for DLA tho I was told cant be done. So one rule for them and another for us.

 

If I get put into ESA SG its quite possible I will cancel my current DLA appeal, so I dont get the risk of a failed DLA appeal triggering a ESA review.

 

You, me and many others will be doing exactly that. Assessing what benefit means the most to them. I'm not going to return my ESA50 for my contribution based ESA when I get it as I cannot risk an early review of my DLA. Yes I know it will be reviewed shortly anyhow for PIP, but I need time to arrange my affairs so that the impact will be lessened.

[**Margaret**]

RaeUk:

 

Deleted - no longer relevant.

But have the :hug: anyway.

 

Margaret.

Edited August 14, 2012 by **Margaret**

[antone]

Ladies and Gentlemen, your attention please!

 

Let's all keep it civil, and may I remind you that we do not insult benefit claimants here.

[hensteeth]

Excuse me, hensteeth, but I really do need to take issue with your remarks. As you know very well, I have claimed ESA - had 'medical' - fail - appeal - fail - claim ESA etc etc etc. So don't mind me taking your scurrilous comments personally. There is only one sickness benefit available to those with a long-term illness. ESA. Nowt else. To lie about my health and claim JSA would be tantamount to fraud. So, how's that 'playing the system'? And don't even think about accusing me of taking the ESA route instead of JSA. Like many in my position, I had to give up a damned good and well paid job for life on your easy street.

But, whilst we're on the subject of 'playing the system' I'd define that as somebody who claims HRM on DLA whilst happily boasting that buses and trains are such an easy form of transport for them to use. Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to leave you gazing into that mirror whilst I go and plot how else I can con the tax payer ...

 

Hang on, don't throw your toys at me!

 

I never identified or even suggested that you were one of those that have played the system.

But once again isn't this entirely down to those that played the system

 

I was quite clear in what I said - in that those that have played the system, meaning the ones that have used the system for their own ends, and not meaning everyone that finds themselves in that situation!

 

Yes you have had a raw deal, I know that, but there are many others that are in the same situation as you are in out of choice, knowing that they will never succeed with their ESA claim.

 

I never intended to offend you at all, and my comments were only directed in respect of those that I know personally that do play the system.

 

That is the point - you are being tarred by the same brush as those which is most unfortunate and wrong.

[RaeUK]

Hang on, don't throw your toys at me! ...

 

ESA is still a relatively new system and I don't think there are that many people who have gone around the magic roundabout the way I have. That said, hensteeth, I am more than happy to accept you didn't mean the comments personally and you were speaking generally.

With that in mind, I am also more than happy to apologise for any misunderstanding that I may have unwittingly promulgated. There is, of course, one proviso. I'd like my toys back if you'd be so kind ...

[hensteeth]

ESA is still a relatively new system and I don't think there are that many people who have gone around the magic roundabout the way I have. That said, hensteeth, I am more than happy to accept you didn't mean the comments personally and you were speaking generally.

With that in mind, I am also more than happy to apologise for any misunderstanding that I may have unwittingly promulgated. There is, of course, one proviso. I'd like my toys back if you'd be so kind ...

 

Thanks and sorry.

 

Can I play with them just a little bit longer?