Council Seeking 10yr Old Council Tax While I was Student. Please Help!!!! **Resolved**

[clarkenuttal]

This is quite annoying that I recently received 2 separate letters from my Council demanding council tax including enforcement charges at an old address where I use to live between 8-10yrs ago.

Points to note are

 

1) Council Tax at that time was under 2 people's name including me and another person. Now the letter from council demanding council tax are under both people's name BUT I have no idea my other housemate is now.

 

2) At my time at that address I was in full time education and I did gave in all my college/university letters for exemptions.

 

3) Since it is such a long time gone pass there is no chance that any college or university would issue such letter again and I have not kept old college/university copies either.

 

4) I wrote to Council the following letter (BUT I did not get any proof of postage):

 

To The Council Tax Team

Address

I write to you in regards to 2 recent council tax bills I have received which I would like to dispute. Firstly these bill are over 10yrs old and are in my and ********'s name. I have no idea where Mr. ***** resides and have no contact for him so in the first step can you kindly separate the liability as I am not responsible for any dues owned by Mr ********. Secondly could you kindly tell me following things:

 

1) The period for which the dues are seek for

 

2) Why are you seeking these dues as during my term on those addresses I have been in full time education and all the college/university letters were duly submitted to the council for the exemptions.

 

3) How many Liability Orders do you have against me

 

4) The dates Liability Orders were obtained

 

5) The addresses they were for

 

6) The period of time each covers

 

7) How much each one was for

 

8) How much is still outstanding

 

9) The dates they were passed on for enforcement

 

I would also like to formally request council that I am at the dispute with the council tax dues sought and until this dispute is resolved council should not proceed with any collection or court proceedings.

 

I would look forward to a prompt and specific answer to this dispute letter

 

Thanksfully

My Name.

 

 

I have now today received 2 letters from Bailiffs just under my name demanding me to pay the entire debt in next 14 days.

 

Can someone please help me and tell me

 

1) What should my next course of action should be?

 

2) Was the letter I wrote to council correct?

 

3) Who should I contact and how to make council deal with my query?

 

4) How to stop the Bailiff's proceedings until my query is dealt by the council?

 

5) Am I in my right to ask council to separate my dues with my other housemate of that time?

 

 

Many thanks in Advance

[revshelp]

Hi there,

 

1) You'll probably have to weight for a response from the council before you can do much else.

 

2) Yes, The information you've requested in the letter will provide you with the bias to challenge the Bill you've had.

 

3) You need to get in contact with a senior officer or the manager in charge of administration and billing. It may be worth asking your local MP to write to the Council as well.

 

4) Unless you answer the door to the bailiff, or they identify your car on the street, there's not much they can do. Do bare in mind though the council could opt for other recovery methods such as an Attachment of Earnings as an alternative.

 

5) The responsibility for paying the Council Tax is "joint-and-several" that is either person can be pursued for the whole of the debt, so they won't split it between the two of you.

 

If you need proof of your student status, perhaps the graduation certificate may be sufficient?

[assisted blonde]

Not sure that the graduation certificate would suffice as CT exemption to the best of my knowledge is for full time students, you can get a degree if you are only part time.

[ss002d6252]

1) Council Tax at that time was under 2 people's name including me and another person. Now the letter from council demanding council tax are under both people's name BUT I have no idea my other housemate is now.

 

2) At my time at that address I was in full time education and I did gave in all my college/university letters for exemptions.

 

The problem is your looking at the current regulations as they stand now and assuming they where the same 10 years ago. Pre 2004 it didn't make a difference that a person was a student or not, if they where joint tenants then they where jointly liable.

[clarkenuttal]

Thanks for reply everyone. I do have a degree and I studied full time for it. Is the degree enough for them to accept?

 

Can someone also kindly elaborate if I would be solely responsible to pay off debt just because no one knows where other person is? Surely being adults and being 2 individuals who are just house mates liability should be divided equally between 2 people?

[revshelp]

I do have a degree and I studied full time for it. Is the degree enough for them to accept?

 

The usual exemption certificate has the start and end dates of the course, along with confirmation that its full time. But as so much time has passed your unlikely to get one of those from your University now. A degree certificate, along with any other information you may have kept about your course may be your best proof at this stage.

 

Can someone also kindly elaborate if I would be solely responsible to pay off debt just because no one knows where other person is? Surely being adults and being 2 individuals who are just house mates liability should be divided equally between 2 people?

 

I would suggest the council may have used a tracing agent to locate you, and possibly your ex-housemate as well, so you may both have had letters from the council and bailiff. Unfortunately they can chase you for the whole debt. The law's effectively designed to stop Person A saying they've paid their half, only for Person B to turn round and claim that they paid their half and that it was Person A who hadn't paid. I guess the law also assumes that the matter will be dealt with quickly and you know the other person and can sort it out between you....obviously not the case when 10 years have past! Have you thought of using Facebook or twitter to contact your house mate?

[MrHat]

Doesn't 'statute barred' come into this if this is from 10 years ago?

[clarkenuttal]

The Statute Barred does not comes into affect as councils are exempted from that.

 

I have no idea where the other housemate is but last time I heard anything was he left UK for good. I done some browsing on the matter too and I know that if I were a student the whole debt by law cannot be sought from me but now my biggest problem and question is how to prove me being full time student?

I do have my degrees but that's about it and in all fairness all college letters were given in to the council back in the days when I was a student so no clue why the hell they have decided to chase this issue up after over 10years. Also I do not think that any university will issue me back dated letter and due to all this mess up with council losing letter or whatever the issue they had I am left in a situation that I dont understand how to move forward and get away with this situation.

[MrHat]

councils are not exempt as far as I know. However you metion 'liability orders' in your original post. Were these obtained and when? If they have got liability orders then you are right, they will not be sb'd, but only if they obtained them within 6 years of the debt being due.

 

Council tax - http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=25_liability_for_debts_and_the_limitation_act

 

A council should not go to the magistrates' court and ask for a liability order for council tax, more than six years after the council tax became due. This is under Regulation 34(3) Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for council tax, is when the council first sent a bill to you. Unreasonable delays in sending bills could be grounds for making a complaint to the local authority and, if unresolved, the Local Government Ombudsman

[MrHat]

post #11 may be useful on here (as might the rest of the thread) - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?156819-council-tax-statute-barred

[clarkenuttal]

councils are not exempt as far as I know. However you metion 'liability orders' in your original post. Were these obtained and when? If they have got liability orders then you are right, they will not be sb'd, but only if they obtained them within 6 years of the debt being due.

 

Council tax - http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=25_liability_for_debts_and_the_limitation_act

 

A council should not go to the magistrates' court and ask for a liability order for council tax, more than six years after the council tax became due. This is under Regulation 34(3) Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992.

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for council tax, is when the council first sent a bill to you. Unreasonable delays in sending bills could be grounds for making a complaint to the local authority and, if unresolved, the Local Government Ombudsman

 

The letter received from the Bailiffs says Liability Order however I am not sure if any liability orders were obtained previous to this? Also can more than 1 liability order be obtained regarding same issue and is the letter from Bailiffs the actual liability order?

[MrHat]

Ok - I don't know what the correct cause of action is here, but you really need the info you refer to on your original post. I am no expert so hope someone comes along that knows about how to deal with this type of issue. My thoughts are that, although it can take 40 days to get a response, that you send of a SAR to the council to request all data including the specific requests for information in post #1. That way, you'll know where you stand. Always send recorded delivery and for sar, enclose £10 payment

[clarkenuttal]

Ok - I don't know what the correct cause of action is here, but you really need the info you refer to on your original post. I am no expert so hope someone comes along that knows about how to deal with this type of issue. My thoughts are that, although it can take 40 days to get a response, that you send of a SAR to the council to request all data including the specific requests for information in post #1. That way, you'll know where you stand. Always send recorded delivery and for sar, enclose £10 payment

 

 

I have already requested some answers in the first instance when i wrote them letter but instead of any replies they have got this matter forwarded to the Bailiffs who have only allowed me 14 days so I have no idea of how am I gonna fit in SAR request which takes 40 days to come in.

 

I have planned to go and see someone in council tax team in person with a hope that they may be of some knowledge or help lets see what they come up with

[greasmonkey]

all the letters you sent to the council should still be on your record at the council

so tell thm to check them.

best to phone the council and put the claim in dispute and tell them to call of the

bailiffs untill this is done

[clarkenuttal]

all the letters you sent to the council should still be on your record at the council

so tell thm to check them.

best to phone the council and put the claim in dispute and tell them to call of the

bailiffs untill this is done

 

I went to see council tax officer gave them 2 letters of dispute (ones I already posted by hand) asking them to reply back in 12 wks and till dispute is over putting Bailiffs on hold.

 

Before going there I went through my old documents and found my Marks Sheet and Enrolement confirmation letter for certain period. Funny thing is when I spoke to council tax officer she said council is missing my letter with about 1 yrs Gap and they cant accept Marks sheet or Degree or anything but letter as proof of Being Full time Student and that even after letter I have to pay other persons dues on top. When I told her they were handed in and now due to time elapsed it would be impossible to obtain one she said either produce letter or pay full stop. To make it worse she said even after producing letter I will need to pay for other person as we are Jointly Liable and since council has located me they are least concerned about other person. I am sure being student the Jointly Liable thing does not apply to me but when I mentioned this to her she said she never heard of it.

 

Any comments on Student being Jointly Liable with non student?

Edited July 14, 2012 by clarkenuttal

[MrHat]

IIRC from my uni days, a household is only exempt if all residents are students. If just one isn't then I believe that council tax is due, but at some discount. It is up for the residents to decide how to split the bill

[greasmonkey]

tell her that if they are making you libel for all the money

you are exempt as a student.

an if they dont want to find the person who wasent a student

that is like saying the other person does not exist

so there was only a student living there

[clarkenuttal]

tell her that if they are making you libel for all the money

you are exempt as a student.

an if they dont want to find the person who wasent a student

that is like saying the other person does not exist

so there was only a student living there

 

Trust me they not interested in nothing but money. Unless there is law or legislation to say one student is not jointly liable

[Feebee_71]

I know from when I was a student I produced my exemption certificates to the council but they told me that, as I lived with 2 people who weren't students, it made no difference and there would be no reduction in CTax (if only one person lived at same address then they would have qualified for single persons discount - apparently). I still lodged the certificates with them for the 3 years I was at uni as they were addressed to the council by the uni who based it on our registered term time address.

 

Not sure about being able to hold you liable for the CTax when you've provided them with proof of being a student. It may be worth sending a letter to your uni specifically requesting the information about the exemption certificates for the relevent years - they may have to go to archived material but should be able to find the details even after this time.

 

Feebee_71

[clarkenuttal]

I know from when I was a student I produced my exemption certificates to the council but they told me that, as I lived with 2 people who weren't students, it made no difference and there would be no reduction in CTax (if only one person lived at same address then they would have qualified for single persons discount - apparently). I still lodged the certificates with them for the 3 years I was at uni as they were addressed to the council by the uni who based it on our registered term time address.

 

Not sure about being able to hold you liable for the CTax when you've provided them with proof of being a student. It may be worth sending a letter to your uni specifically requesting the information about the exemption certificates for the relevent years - they may have to go to archived material but should be able to find the details even after this time.

 

Feebee_71

 

Can you tell me which year are you talking about? According to new Legislation of 2004 Students are not joinly and severally liable.Also not sure if they would treat my case then would they treat it with older legislation as my council tax they are seeking is over 10yrs old or they would have to deal with the new legislation in place?

[Feebee_71]

I was a student from 2001 to 2004.

 

I would think they should treat a case from 10 years ago with the legislation that was in place at the time rather than newer legislation that may affect the outcome or any ability to take action in the first place.

 

Feebee_71

[clarkenuttal]

After a very long process council has now dropped the matter and no money is sorted out from me anymore.

 

 

I had to get in touch with Universities that I attended during the course of period for which council tax was sought.

 

 

I then had to re submit confirmation letters from universities to the council who then had no options but to drop the issue.

 

Thank you to everyone who have helped me achieve this!!!!

[ploddertom]

Thank you for coming back & letting us know. Perseverance certainly pays off as I'm sure most would have given uo before now.