Rockwell debt. Advice Please.

[rzb40]

Hi,

 

This is my first post so I hope I do it right!

 

I have a problem with Arrow Global and have so far dealt with them by taking some advice and appropriate letter templates from this site.

 

I wrote to them and asked them to supply credit agreement etc and they did.

 

I noticed that the orginal debt was from 2002 (Black Horse Finance) and was defaulted on in 2003

(last time a direct debit was taken from the bank) and a last payment (token by the looks of it) was in 2004.

 

I therefore wrote to them and told them it was statute barred using templates from this site.

 

They have now wrote back and said that the a payment of £10 was made towards the account in December 2010 and it is therefore not statute barred.

 

They are demanding immediate repayment of £8,500 or realistic repayment proposals witinin 30 days.

 

They statements they sent me do not reflect this alledged payment in 2010 and I have no record of paying it.

 

What do I do next?

 

Do I demand they prove the payments made in 2010 and stick to the fact it is statute barred unless they are able to?

 

Any help/advice would be much appreciated.

[AndyOrch]

Hi rzb40 and Welcome to CAG

 

Yes you have got it right:-D Have you ever made a DSAR ( subject access request to them £10.00 !!!!!!!)

 

Regards

 

Andy

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome (finally) to CAG

 

My first instinct is to ask whether you have ever sent a Subject Access Request to the creditor? If not then I would think they are trying it on.

 

I would be asking When, Where and by what means the 'alleged' payment was made. The onus is on them to prove you made payment, not on you to prove you didn't

[rzb40]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for the reply. No I haven't made a DSAR to them. What is this and what will it do exactly?

 

Regards

[AndyOrch]

The DSAR is a legal request for the data they hold on you , its just with the £10.00 they state which is the same as a DSAR request.. coincidental.The burden of proof is on them to prove you did make payment. Phantom payments emerge as it gets close to SB or already is.

 

 

Andy

[rzb40]

Thanks. I have looked at a template for the DSAR and wil be sending this off to them.

[AndyOrch]

Hi rzb

 

I would hold with the DSAR you never know how that £10 may be accounted.Wait a tad longer and see what else they come up.Proof will be a Court Summons.

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Duplicate Post

[rzb40]

Oh! Is it likely that they will view it as a payment on the account then? I may just write and ask them to prove the payment then and see what response I get.

[havinastella]

When in 2004 was the £10 token payment? If it was before December, the debt would still be Stat Barred even if they wanted to make up the phantom payment in 2010.

 

Jogs

[AndyOrch]

" The statements they sent me do not reflect this alledged payment in 2010 and I have no record of paying it.

 

What do I do next? Do I demand they prove the payments made in 2010 and stick to the fact it is statute barred unless they are able to? Any help/advice would be much appreciated.

 

Good point Jogs, I personally would ignore it and go tend my garden:wink:

 

Regards

 

Andy

[ims21]

Thread moved the Arrow forum

[rzb40]

The payment in 2004 was in August

and it was the last 'official' payment amount of £228.92 from the bank on direct debit.

 

I've never actually made any payments since then

as balck horse always refused reduced payments so I let the debt ho unpaid until finally I stopped hearing from them.

 

It's just suddenly reared itself for some reason.

 

I've just looked at the paperwork and its actually Rockwell Debt Recovery acting on behalf of Arrow Global

whom are acting on behalf of Black Horse Finance (The original creditors)!

 

They're claiming a token payment was made in December 2010 of £10 meaning it is not statute barred.

[havinastella]

The payment in 2004 was in August and it was the last 'official' payment amount of £228.92 from the bank on direct debit. I've never actually made any payments since then as balck horse always refused reduced payments so I let the debt ho unpaid until finally I stopped hearing from them. It's just suddenly reared itself for some reason. I've just looked at the paperwork and its actually Rockwell Debt Recovery acting on behalf of Arrow Global whom are acting on behalf of Black Horse Finance (The original creditors)! They're claiming a token payment was made in December 2010 of £10 meaning it is not statute barred.

 

ANY period of 6 years (5 in Scotland) where no payment or acknowledgement has been make makes the debt Statue Barred. Even if you make a payment like they said, TOUGH!

 

It is Stat barred!

 

Jogs

[rzb40]

Aah, now I see! Thanks Jogs now I see the light! I am so not worrying about this now and will be tending to my garden as earlier suggested by Andy.

 

Regards.

[dx100uk]

little fleecers

 

ignore them

 

dx

[National Debtline]

Hello there. In addition to the information already given it's important to note that the 6 year time limit would run from when the creditor could first bring legal action to recover the money against you; this is known as a 'cause of action'. With credit agreements the cause of action would run from when the account 'defaults' as per the terms and conditions of contract. This is likely to be a few months after the final payment was made in 2004 (unless it defaulted previously). If there has been a clear six year gap without payment and acknowledgement the debt would become statute barred unless the creditor has successfully brought legal action against you to recover the debt, from the information provided this is unlikely to have happened.

 

Even if the £10 payment was legitimate it seems that there would have been a six year gap anyway, once a debt is statute barred it always will be [s29(7) Limitation Act 1980] - this point has been highlighted within the previous posts.

 

If the alledged payment is within the 6 year period the creditor would need to be able to prove that the payment was made by yourself, any other person liable for the debt - or an agent acting on your behalf. They cannot simply say that there has been a payment, they have to prove that, on the balance of probabilities, that it has been made.

 

Hope you find this information useful,

 

National Debtline.

[rzb40]

Hi all,

 

I've posted on here previously for advice about an old debt from 2001 for approx £8,500

originally with Black Horse and now with Rockwell Ltd.

 

I requested the original credit agreement and statements which they sent and it showed the last payment as August 2004 meaning,

I thought, that the debt was statute barred.

 

I wrote and told them this and

 

they disputed stating the last payment was December 2010.

 

After a bit of to-ing and fro-ing they have now sent a statement showing that the debt defaulted in November 2004

and payments were then made from June 2009 at £10 per month via direct debit.

 

These payments then ceased in December 2010.

 

They point out that as the acount never went 6 yrs without acknowledgement it is not statute barred and is therefore recoverable.

They are now demanding full repayment within 30 days.

 

Since 2001 I have separated from my Husband, have no assets and am now a pensioner only claiming state pension.

 

How do I ever repay this loan?

 

Any advice about how to deal with them would be greatly appreciated.

[havinastella]

Did you pay what they are alledging?

[rzb40]

I really don't know. I can't remember setting up a direct debit to repay £10 per month. The statement just gives a list of dates of direct debits and amount. It doesnt give any bank details etc.

[ims21]

Two threads merged....please keep to this one thread for this issue

 

Ta

[havinastella]

Did you send the SAR?

[dx100uk]

keep ignoring them

 

they have no legal powers

 

a dca chasing a debt for a dca that thinks you might owe to black horse -yea ok fleecers keep trying.

 

if you have not changed banks since these supposed DD payments - then SAR your bank

 

or find statements for that period and prove them WRONG. if you have them somewhere

 

i'd also recommend checking your CRA file

 

use noddle listed below.

 

they might well show historic paytments on this debt

 

IF IT SHOWS!!

 

just be aware that BH sold loads of toxic lemon debts a couple of years ago

and these monkeys sit on debts until they think thy can spoof people into paying

 

dx

[rzb40]

I didnt send a SAR.

I just told them that the debt was statute barred according to the information they had originally sent me and told them to prove it wasn't.

 

They then sent a printout of direct debit payments made between June 2009 and December 2010 for £10 per month

and said this proved it wasnt statute barred as the account never reached 6yrs without acknowledgement.

 

The printout they sent doesnt state what bank or account the direct debit was made from

or whose name on the account the supposed direct debits came from.

 

I cannot honestly remember setting this up and I know I would have paid via debit card or cheque/postal order if I had rather than direct debit.

[dx100uk]

post 23 refers.

 

get your CRA file

 

SAR your bank

 

dx