got defaulted/claim back fees + Car Repo Too - GE money - now got claim form - HELP

[dx100uk]

the invited guests will explain it far better than me.

 

however, if a credit agreement is wrongly terminated, [i'e on the back of an invalid DN]

then that is the only figure the OC can demand .

 

read that link i sent

 

dx

[Always Struggling]

read that link i sent

 

dx

 

did you send me a link dx?

 

apologies, am a bit brain dead here :boink:lol

 

would appreciate the link again please

 

No rush to do it tonight though dx, have to go to bed now, last few weeks of work coming up ...... redundancy looms on the horizon

 

Thanks

AS

[dx100uk]

thats funny its gone

 

hang on

 

dx

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?332375-Regarding-faulty-Default-Notice-amp-Termination&highlight=termination+on+faulty+dn

 

just type in

 

termination on back of faulty dn

 

search top right

 

dx

[Always Struggling]

Ok... have been reading the thread (and a couple others)....... confusing lol.

 

The DN (invlaid because of late fees?) amount = £491.95 but later it was stated on termination as £556.34

Account then terminated, claiming full amount of £1723.64 (after £28 rebate)

The charges claimed for and refused (including interest) = £587.07

 

The part I am getting confused over is in respect to an invalid DN

 

Can Santander not just issue a new DN? Even when they have terminated (albeit unlawfully)?

 

I think I am getting somewhere understanding bad DN's etc only to read something else

 

Clarity is a good thing and I seek it please lol

 

AS

Edited July 30, 2012 by Always Struggling
Added question about DN - bold

[dx100uk]

people must be away.

 

pinged 3 last night

 

dx

[postggj]

you cannot terminate a credit account on a duff default notice

 

if you receive a county court claim for instance and you do a defence on a duff default notice

 

all the claimant would have to do is withdraw the action, then reissue the claim on the back of sending a compliant default notice

 

you can argue part 38 discontinuence but it would be up to the judge to decide in the case management stage to procede with the new claim or not

 

if the account had been sold to a DCA, all that would mean is the account was live at the point of sale so the DCA would be able to issue their own DN

 

the way you would deal with that is the failing of the DCA in regards as to how the account was assigned and how the notice of assignment to the debtor was conducted as to statutory legislation

 

pick holes in the NOA, the DCA would be screewed

Edited July 30, 2012 by squaddie

[Always Struggling]

Yes thx squaddie I was asking that point in my post but I think Brig and dx are referring to the fact that late charges have a bearing on the DN amount and that Santander have have subsequently terminated unlawfully.

 

I say 'think' though lol

 

If it was just the fact that the DN might be bad by a day or so then I would expect your point to be exactly the case.

 

From Brigs and dx's posts it would appear another course is/has presented itself.

 

AS

[dx100uk]

its a shame postggj is not around anymore

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?266569-Invalid-Termination-Welcome-Finance&highlight=invalid+dn

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?196312-Invalid-Default-Notices

[postggj]

The only problem i have is with a Default notice served under 87 (1) CCA 1974 and penalty charges (lawful or not) being included is that it can be seen that you entered into a contractual obligation as to the creditors t&c.

 

That being the case, any penalty charges that are added to any outstanding balance would be deemed to be lawful as would be contractual.

 

Even the FOS state now in their code of practice that a £12 fee would be deemed reasonable, although it would be a matter for the court, but the courts can and do take codes of practice into consideration when reaching a decision when enlightened

 

i agree when you take out say a loan, all the contractual repayments and perscribed terms are enclosed over the term of any loan and penalty payments are extra

 

but

 

The only way to convince me on any other possibility would be to show me where in the Default and Termination Regulations or CCA 1974 where a Default penalty or Default interest payments cannot be added to a default notice served under 87 (1) cca 1974 (STATUTE LAW)

 

Even with the default interest, the creditor has to give the debtor an opportunity to pay the sum before it is added to the balance

 

(notification of default sums)

 

In short

 

i do not know the answer to your question until it has been confirmed by statutory means or case law,

 

And not

 

Accredited Codes of Practice or non Accredited (guidance)

or unsubstantiated advice

 

THE ONLY EXCEPTION I CAN SEE IS SECTION 86 OF THE CCA (AMENDED)

 

giving notice of default sums

 

If people advise on any course of action, then they should be expected to confirm it by as stated, relevant statutory authority or case law, (links) the poster can then understand what is being said and advised

 

sorry for the long post i i thought it relevant

Edited July 31, 2012 by squaddie

[Always Struggling]

Absolutely positive DX it's just the ICOs way of putting things,

If the charges are the bulk of the default sum the default

should not have been placed at all.

So is a go challenge which I have used successfully.

 

Hi Brig, can you elaborate on this please?

 

Been looking through ICO guidances and can't find the points you refer to.

 

I see what you mean but need to understand this myself so I approach things right in a letter.

 

I had understood a bad DN can be easily recitified and terminations on the back of it are just invalid terminations.

 

What would I put in a letter to Santand to explain why they are wrong in doing what they have done?

 

Am eager to understand this

 

AS

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok it's no in the general guidance but is an update of

Technical Guidance.

Yes a defective DN is easlly rectified.

The guidance and that is really all it is, is intended to offer

a level of fairness when defaults are placed, as said if the default

sum is made up of charges, which when applied said charges cause

the default, the default should not be placed.

 

I'm not at my office this week so have no access to the document but

frm memory it is an update of version 3 of Technical Guidance August

2007. I think section 12 (Exceptions)>

[naomi25]

have been reading the posts but am confused by it all lol.

Shall i send them a letter saying that my offer of £100 per month is still there, or shall i just wait to hear from them next?

can someone please advise on this

thanks

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Wait and see.

[naomi25]

ok thanks

[dadofholly]

Subbing - sorry was away on hols - will read through thread and come back to this later this evening.

[Always Struggling]

naomi25 has asked me to post the latest lettter received from anglia as she's having a problem uploading to the forum.

The amount is now £735, up from their last letter in June of £531 with no explaination as to why.

 

Also sent them a letter before saying the account was in dispute but they seemed to have ignored this.

What letter shall i reply to them with ?

 

 

angliasant.pdf

Edited August 9, 2012 by Always Struggling

[renegadeimp]

Get a full breakdown, and throw the debt into dispute until they comply.

 

Also, they are just a DCA. Ignore them as they have zero legal rights to the debt. The extra debt is probably them trying to claim fees. Also send them the doorstep collector letter from the cag library. As for further action, thats just a lie. They cant take ANY action on the debt whatsoever. Only the owner of the debt can.

[Always Struggling]

So naomi25 should send the doorstep letter to anglia then ignore them but at the same time put together a letter for santander in relation to ICO guidance and the charges in respect to the fairness of the default?

[renegadeimp]

Yep. Basically tell the DCA to go play on the motorway or something. Only deal with the OC.

[dadofholly]

Has a formal CCA reqest been made?

 

If so what did they send in reply - and if not make one now.

 

That ltter from Anglia is designed to cause alarm and distress by threatening to visit you at your place of work. Report this to the OFT immediatley with a copy of the letter - Also complain about the default situation and Santander.

 

Best to complain to Polly Ashford at the OFT.

[naomi25]

i havent sent a CCA request because when i did the SAR i received the agreement with that.

 

will send them a doorstep letter, as have now received a letter from them saying they are sending an agent to my property.

[renegadeimp]

I love how they call themselves "agents", in a vain and futile attempt to make people believe they have any authority over anything.

[dadofholly]

i havent sent a CCA request because when i did the SAR i received the agreement with that.

 

will send them a doorstep letter, as have now received a letter from them saying they are sending an agent to my property.

 

Send a formal CCA request - and lets see what they send you back to see if it complies. A CCA request is more than just a request for a copy of the agreement - they should also send you a statement that clearly shows how they have came to the figures they are claiming and when they became due.

 

Many companies fail to FULLY comply with a CCA request - and this makes it a legal bar to enforcement.

[naomi25]

thanks, will get the cca request sent tomorrow