Friend Committing Benefit Fraud

[Bang!]

Sorry there is just something about this post that spits the righteous Uriah Heep meets the 21st century.

 

I feel a pending troll alert.

 

Dear Mr McCarthy - I suspect my neighbor is a communist...

 

My name is Parsons and I am 7. Daddy has thought crimes...

[LaughingGirl]

Maybe it is, but I don't see the harm in having a useful discussion about something that's a problem for a lot of people.

 

If it was an ideal world, I'd like anyone who knows someone committing benefit fraud to talk to them and make them see the error of their ways. It's not an ideal world, though. I do think that the vast majority of people who do it don't set out to fleece the system - I just think there's very little provision for people coming off benefits and into work, so they think "I'll tell them after I get my first pay packet". Before they know it they've had their second, third and fourth pay packet and they've got used to the money.

 

Before anyone says it, I know benefit fraud is just a drop in the ocean compared to tax avoidance. I'm just tired of people being self-entitled, right across the board.

[sadone]

Sorry there is just something about this post that spits the righteous Uriah Heep meets the 21st century.

 

I feel a pending troll alert.

 

Dear Mr McCarthy - I suspect my neighbor is a communist...

 

My name is Parsons and I am 7. Daddy has thought crimes...

 

Yeah thats the kind of creepy vibe I get from these sort of things too unfortunately.

[caledfwlch]

I don't understand why things cannot be set so that one HAS to identify oneself when reporting someone for fraud, but, if it gets to court, the defendent and their legal team do not get to see the identity of the complainant.

 

I would imagine this would cut malicious and unfounded reports right down. Especially if there could be sanctions for making a false report - wasting DWP/potentially Police time etc.

[LaughingGirl]

I don't understand why things cannot be set so that one HAS to identify oneself when reporting someone for fraud, but, if it gets to court, the defendent and their legal team do not get to see the identity of the complainant.

 

I would imagine this would cut malicious and unfounded reports right down. Especially if there could be sanctions for making a false report - wasting DWP/potentially Police time etc.

 

Completely agree. I don't think it would eliminate it entirely because some people are determined to be malicious at any cost, but it would help.

[Nystagmite]

I don't understand why things cannot be set so that one HAS to identify oneself when reporting someone for fraud, but, if it gets to court, the defendent and their legal team do not get to see the identity of the complainant.

 

I would imagine this would cut malicious and unfounded reports right down. Especially if there could be sanctions for making a false report - wasting DWP/potentially Police time etc.

 

Agreed. This would hopefully make people think twice about reporting people.

[sadone]

I don't understand why things cannot be set so that one HAS to identify oneself when reporting someone for fraud, but, if it gets to court, the defendent and their legal team do not get to see the identity of the complainant.

 

I would imagine this would cut malicious and unfounded reports right down. Especially if there could be sanctions for making a false report - wasting DWP/potentially Police time etc.

 

Exactly DWP own figures show that much of their so called fraud reports are in fact malicious in nature. Too many people seem to use it to aid their own personal vendettas and agendas and so having to put your name against such a thing would hopefully deter that kind of petty behavior imo.

[daggersedge]

This is all wrong, this call for identification of people who report those who they think committing fraud. This is all wrong, tarring them as terrible people.

 

Do you really approve of people defrauding taxpayers? You act as if we aren't supposed to judge anyone on benefits, but, if someone reports someone for benefit fraud, you are only too ready to judge that person. You are oh so ready to sling the word 'malicious'.

 

Benefit frauds are not rebels against the system, you know. They aren't some form of revolutionary. They are selfish people playing the system to get what they can for themselves and they don't care about anyone else. If you want a revolution, then fine, run one, but don't glorify those who commit fraud.

Edited April 12, 2012 by daggersedge
Left out quote. So just added a bit about the thing to which I was replying.

[Life-Goes-On]

Person A doesn't like person B, so person A reports person B as a benefit cheat.

Person B ends up with loads of stress, until they find claim is genuine

Person A just laughs, because there is no comeback on them.

 

It's about time statistics are released on how many people are wrongfully investigated because of these anonymous reports.

[sadone]

Person A doesn't like person B, so person A reports person B as a benefit cheat.

Person B ends up with loads of stress, until they find claim is genuine

Person A just laughs, because there is no comeback on them.

 

It's about time statistics are released on how many people are wrongfully investigated because of these anonymous reports.

 

 

Yep thats how I see it too I'm afraid.

 

This is all wrong, this call for identification of people who report those who they think committing fraud.

 

Not for me I'm afraid. People want to accuse others of wrong doing then they should stand behind that claim.

[LaughingGirl]

Part of the problem, for me, is that not all benefit fraud is a couple of thousand quid going in the back pocket of a single Mum. Going back a few years, I knew someone who was claiming incapacity or invalidity and associated benefits while running a successful courier company. He was using the benefit money to pay for stabling and food for the horse he bought his girlfriend! My ex-landlord was arrested for benefit fraud for claiming while he was running a portfolio of 9 properties on the south coast. That man was worth a couple of million! How selfish to you have to be to do that?

 

Why should people be sitting there too scared to put a claim in for something they're entitled to while people like that get away with it?

[jadeybags]

Yes, that's a good idea, people shouldn't remain anon when they report someone. As long as they are guaranteed that the person they are bubbling on won't know still. What if it was some muscle bound nut job you were reporting. That could put most people off doing it when they should.

[Nystagmite]

Person A doesn't like person B, so person A reports person B as a benefit cheat.

Person B ends up with loads of stress, until they find claim is genuine

Person A just laughs, because there is no comeback on them.

 

It's about time statistics are released on how many people are wrongfully investigated because of these anonymous reports.

 

I seem to remember the amount of people wrongfully investigated is quite high. The benefit fraud rate for DLA is around 0.5% and 0.3% for IB / ESA per year.

[assisted blonde]

In an ideal world we would be able to rely on personal details being kept confidential, however its not an ideal world so i can understand that there are times when a person wants to report a benefit cheat but is scared of repercussions, if their name gets out, until we can really keep details confidential then the ability to report anonymously will have to remain.

[Nystagmite]

But reporting anonymously means that people can get away with reporting people due to jealousy, etc.

[antone]

I seem to remember the amount of people wrongfully investigated is quite high. The benefit fraud rate for DLA is around 0.5% and 0.3% for IB / ESA per year.

 

This ties in with my recollection. A similar or slightly higher amount is lost to non-fraudulent administrative error.

[Life-Goes-On]

Also it gets people playing the judgement game.

 

EG A report filed because someone doesn't look disabled enough to get DLA, even when the person reporting hasn't a clue what their disability is.

[sadone]

Yes you only have to look at another thread on here at the moment to see that kind of petty little nastiness going on.

[assisted blonde]

I know that some people will make malicious accusations if they can stay anonymous, but all I am saying is that until confidentiality is improved that is the way it should be. However when a call is made there should be more questions asked of the reportee in order to try and establish if the report is genuine, before an investigation starts.

its all a bit of a mess really, but I do belive that everyone should be able to report all sorts of things anonymously if there is a chance that there could be any sort of retaliation.

[frank_begbie]

Hi all

 

Please do not judge me, I have come on here for a bit of advise. Someone I know is committing benefit fraud knowingly, and has gotten away with it up so far. She has remained under the radar, and has just lied through her teeth to the job centre about her situation.

 

She claims Council Tax, Housing Benefit, Child Tax Credit, JSA etc and has done this by falsely saying she is a lone parent to two children. Truth of the matter here is she is in a relationship and living with this person for many years.

 

She lies about him, saying he does not live with her, and tells the job centre he lives in a hostel.

 

They are both on the run from debtors.....

 

It frustrates me that she flaunts that she is a 'lady of leisure' ....and she's is out during the daytime spending all this benefit money she is not actually entitled too. This person is definitely job shy!!!!

 

Some people have nagged at her saying what she is doing is fraud and she says 'i know i know... i will tell them one day, money X is earning has dried up' and I think What?????all lies lies lies

 

I don't know what to do as I'm sick of seeing her flaunt it under my nose whist I (and many others) are working hard to pay our bills and make and honest living.

 

I don't know whether to file a report online or by telephone or say nothing and grit my teeth. When I think to the back payment - if it came to that - its going to be £1000s when they eventually calculate it.

 

OK there is just a general outline, what would you do in this situation? Please don't ask me to draw attention to myself by asking her to reconsider what she's doing because it will fall on deaf ears with her.

 

Thank you:|

 

 

Here's an idea, if you feel a bit guilty about reporting her, why not send her a letter saying you know all about the fiddling she is doing and if she doesn't stop you will report her.

 

That gives her the chance to stop of her own free will, and she will have to take the consequenses if she takes no notice of your warning.

 

Obviously you type the letter so she doesn't know who sent it by the hand writing.

[jabba jones]

I seem to remember the amount of people wrongfully investigated is quite high. The benefit fraud rate for DLA is around 0.5% and 0.3% for IB / ESA per year.

 

Was the low figure the amount of investigations that lead to prosecution? Because prosecutions are frustratingly low. There are many reasons for this & they can vary from area to area.

 

I've always found the % of fraud / error etc figures strange. How are they calculated?

 

Not all fraud can be proved. I've investigated plenty of cases where I knew fraud was being committed, but I couldn't prove all or any of it. It's not uncommon to be able to get a benefit disallowance decision & overpayment but not to have the evidence to take the case to court or obtain a sanction. The overpayment still stands but how is this classed in the figures?

 

FIS would rarely investigate an IB/ESA case based on the illness unless that person was also working or had excess capital (ESA income based). So if someone manages to con their Dr, blag themselves through a medical & then sits at home all day they will never be investigated. Is that still fraud?

 

DLA is a farcical benefit that should have been scrapped & the rules rewritten years ago. There are still thousands of early claims that have never had a medical of any form. Life time awards appear to have been issued with no reviews. Many of these people have absolutely no idea that a lifetime award still means they have to report changes, & don't even get me started on the Motorbility scheme. It is now the 2nd biggest carleasing company in the world & is only beaten by the Chinese Army! I know from personal experience how valuable DLA is to those who really need it, but in this case I believe a lot of the blame towards the current media witch hunt falls firmly at the feet of the DLA benefit rules themselves.

 

As for anon allegations its a no brainer. Without them the amount for allegations from the public would be almost zero. You might as well forget all LT & DLA fraud detection. It would be a free for all & you only have to look at Tax Credits to see what that's like!

 

Rant over.

[Conniff]

I don't think any of this was envisaged by Mr Attlee, Labour's 1945 Prime Minister. Remember there were tens of thousands of fatherless families at the end of the war and the benefits (along with child allowance) was brought in to ease their lot. I don't think they were ever intended as a permanent entitlement.

 

The state it's in now is because instead of making a new paper, they (along with all legistlation) just keep adding bits on here and taking a bit off there until the whole thing is just one big mess and not understood by anyone.

 

Just think how rich this country would be without all these benefits, they could scrap business rates and taxes and that would give companies more money to invest and employ. There could be full employment even in todays climate.

[Nystagmite]

Also it gets people playing the judgement game.

 

EG A report filed because someone doesn't look disabled enough to get DLA, even when the person reporting hasn't a clue what their disability is.

 

Indeed. I know someone who got report for supposed DLA fraud. He only claims ESA due to a spinal problem.

 

I have been accused (to my knowledge, that's it - not been reported) of claiming DLA when I shouldn't be. All my disabilities are invisible. You can't tell by looking at me what I do and don't see. I can't even tell you that - because it's normal for me.

[Bang!]

Lets say I suspect more crooks work in various benefit departments than those who claim benefits illegally.

 

I wonder how many people are entirely entitled, yet underpaid - so its difficult to feel sympathy for a crookedly broken system. Just look at the crap in the UK newspapers vilifying people with disabilities, now to such an extent that its suspected to be behind some physical attacks on the disabled.

[jack1966]

there's more and more tax taken from peoples wages, people who work hard, and much of the taxes goes to people on benefits, there are people who are in difficult situations and need benefits to help them in their times of need, for that i and i suppose others happily their taxes. but the greedy people who just want more and more of what their not entitled to, and what doesn't belong to them in my eyes and in the eyes of the law is theft. those that commit benefit fraud are thieving from those people who work hard. People who work also have to pay bills and trust me there's not much left at the end of the month.

A true friend is an honest trust worthy person.

 

Without being proactive in fighting against a crime of which you know about is in itself an offence as far as im aware. I maybe wrong, but my instincts tell me that you have high morals and that's a good thing, you know right from wrong, you need to right a wrong.

 

I would