PCN but signs say nothing about sundays????

[nohope]

parking sign.pdfparking sign.pdf

 

Parked outside my sons on the main road where i normally park in the evening when i'm there. Was 12.45 this afternoon.

 

Came down to a ticket from the council saying

 

Contravention - 1 parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours.

 

The signs that are up (see attached pdf) say mon to sat no loading between certain times as you can see from the pic and also no parking on footway or verge, was on the road and there's no verge anywhere near.

 

The only other sign as you can see says 8am to 6pm which i'm guessing is no parking even though that means if you parked at 8.15am to load a car you would be liable for a ticket as you can't park there from 8am which means the bottom sign contradicts the one above. I'm no good with signs anymore so just tend to park in side roads and car parks.

 

There was 3 cars already parked along the road when i got there and as it says nothing about any sunday ristrictions i parked as i would of an evening but mister council jobsworth decided a ticket will be issued.

 

Just to add, its single yellow lines along the road.

 

Is this one i can argue due to the signs contradicting each other and having no sunday hours or sunday ristrictions or does the bottom sign mean no parking between those times.

 

Any help would be great as i think its out of order giving tickets out on easter sunday when really even the ticket twits should have a day of....

[padja]

I would argue the case using both the contradiction of signage and confusion of signage. I would also try using a little compassion Its Easter Sunday nothing is open etc etc it wasn't causing an obstruction. Worth a try used to work when police handed out the PCN's not sure about councils flexibility. Others may help with pointing to laws etc to use.

Edited April 8, 2012 by padja
spelling

[green_and_mean]

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Is this one i can argue due to the signs contradicting each other and having no sunday hours or sunday ristrictions or does the bottom sign mean no parking between those times.

 

Any help would be great as i think its out of order giving tickets out on easter sunday when really even the ticket twits should have a day of....

 

The signs do not contradict each other they compliment each other, you cannot park between 8am and 6pm which is indicated by the yellow line/sign although you can stop to load/unload EXCEPT between the hours shown on the white sign which prohibit loading, these are basic signs shown in the highway code. Since the yellow sign has no days shown on it it indicates the restriction is anyday, yellow lines are painted for traffic management the the same as any other sign, you would not expect to be allowed to speed, ignore give way signs, no right turn signs etc just because its Easter why should yellow lines be any different?

[nohope]

you would not expect to be allowed to speed, ignore give way signs, no right turn signs etc just because its Easter why should yellow lines be any different?

 

Thats not what i ment by the fact its a holiday day, even the ticket wombles should have a day off once in a blue moon is all i was saying.

 

I was there for loading and unloading. I dropped of 2x 3 foot vivs and was picking up 2x 4 foot vivs and as its the top floor and 3 flights of narrow stepsup it took about 35 mins to get them up and down the stairs. Is that better, i was loading and unloading on the same visit.

 

Now i'm guessing i'm within the law and within the times stated, or not being sunday. So i should be able to get them to cancel the ticket as i was loading my car but obviously had to lock it up while i was upstairs moving things down and so forth....

[nohope]

And while i think of it. Where i live there are single yellow lines and the signs state no parking between 8am and 6pm mon to sat but say no more to do with sunday as everyone round here knows you can park on them on sunday which is where the confusion from my part comes into it..

[green_and_mean]

If in fact you were loading then appeal on those grounds.

[green_and_mean]

And while i think of it. Where i live there are single yellow lines and the signs state no parking between 8am and 6pm mon to sat but say no more to do with sunday as everyone round here knows you can park on them on sunday which is where the confusion from my part comes into it..

 

Thats because those yellow lines do not apply on Sundays hence the mon to sat, the fact still remains they only have the days on them if they are less than everyday ie mon-fri, mon-sat etc etc

[Jamberson]

Top sign prohibits stopping at all times (except as stated in the sign containing the no loading information).

 

The bottom sign says no waiting between 8am and 6pm, which by implication means one can wait outside of those hours.

 

The problem is: one cannot "wait" without also "stopping" - where there is a "no stopping" restriction, it is also a contravention to wait.

 

If we take an example: At 7am, the top sign says one must not stop, but the bottom sign allows waiting. Therfore if one observes the hours on the bottom sign and waits at 7am, one inadvertantly falls foul of the top sign by also stopping.

 

This is conflicting - or if I have mis-understood, at the very least unclear.

[nohope]

Top sign says verge or footway, footway being the pavement which i was not on and verge normally means if there is a grass bank or mud area running alonf the edge of the pavement or if it was just a grassed area. Thats my understanding of that part.

[green_and_mean]

Top sign prohibits stopping at all times (except as stated in the sign containing the no loading information).

 

The bottom sign says no waiting between 8am and 6pm, which by implication means one can wait outside of those hours.

 

The problem is: one cannot "wait" without also "stopping" - where there is a "no stopping" restriction, it is also a contravention to wait.

 

If we take an example: At 7am, the top sign says one must not stop, but the bottom sign allows waiting. Therfore if one observes the hours on the bottom sign and waits at 7am, one inadvertantly falls foul of the top sign by also stopping.

 

This is conflicting - or if I have mis-understood, at the very least unclear.

 

 

Top sign applies only to the verge/footway, the waiting/loading applies to the carriageway.

[Jamberson]

..

[sailor sam]

Signs seem pretty clear to me. If the OP was loading, I reckon he will need some kind of delivery note to back up his claim if the CEO didn't observe any loading.

[green_and_mean]

I would just add the sign is upside down before anyone decides to mention it (the yellow bit is meant to be above the white) although I would say its substantially compliant and portrays the restriction.

[shoi]

Some years ago I got a parking ticket cancelled by (the national appeals office in Manchester sort of thing). My grounds were for unclear signing, and my evidence was, not only the clear as mud sign, but also photos showing loads of people were also parked in the same place, and not parked nearby where the signing was clearer. So if loads of people are parked ilegally it must mean that the signing is unclear, end of story.