Debt Assignment

[intend]

Term for this is debt factoring - the buyer of the debt takes the risk of a bad debt.

[reginald perrin]

Does this interesting dabate started by James81 mean a DCA does not have to disclose how much they bought the debt for even though it is personal information about a debtor obviously held by them?

I found the Brigadiers (grand gentleman) remark interesting that he could remember only one instance it had it had been used in court and held to be commercially sensitive and only for the eyes of a senior judge. How can an individuals personal debt be classed as commercial or perhaps he is in debt to make money! How old was this apparently learned person!

I can see lots of letters with awkward questions to clog up the wheels of DCA's being sent in the near future not to mention refusals to supply anymore information such as IE forms.

[intend]

Nice line of thought reggie - worth a shout - just to annoy them - A kind of "I'll show you mine if you show me yours"

 

If DCA's fessed up to the cost of buying the debt, some debters might actually be willing to pay to clear the debt.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

In the simplest view given that debts are sold bulk at

a given price the seller is passing on the risk and rights

and obligations of the original contract, the ''debt''

in this situation an item sold and purchased, the right

of the creditor to sell,assign and or share the data with

a third party is given under the signature of the debtor

at the origination of the agreement.

The one case was for a very large amount of money.

The original agreement with all it's Ts & Cs is the property

of the original creditor to sell at any time.

[ims21]

Does this interesting dabate started by James81 mean a DCA does not have to disclose how much they bought the debt for even though it is personal information about a debtor obviously held by them?

I found the Brigadiers (grand gentleman) remark interesting that he could remember only one instance it had it had been used in court and held to be commercially sensitive and only for the eyes of a senior judge. How can an individuals personal debt be classed as commercial or perhaps he is in debt to make money! How old was this apparently learned person!

I can see lots of letters with awkward questions to clog up the wheels of DCA's being sent in the near future not to mention refusals to supply anymore information such as IE forms.

 

Its not the debt itself that is commercially sensitive....it is the purchase price of that debt which is.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Look at the debt as an assett of the lenders company, just like

any companies stock in trade, their is no reason for the debtor

to know the sale price of the debt.

It would be I think pointless for an individual to atempt

to raise this while disputing any debt.

[Conniff]

I agree with every sentiment that has been posted, so please don't jump down my throat when I say - in the general terms of things, this is a business and as such is out to make a profit and the wholesale price of their commodity can't really be open for anyone to see. Going back to an earlier post, you can't or wouldn't expect to be told how much that car cost the dealer to buy or that fridge Currys bought.

I don't think you would get anywhere asking how much they paid for your debt and I don't believe there is any legislation or guidlines which allow you to. The dpa is about personal data not company data.

 

At least they pay for their stock, the banks get given it for free.

[intend]

The one good thing about your debt being sold is that it is probably done so without the paperwork trail that proves the debt exists.

[reginald perrin]

This article is quickly turning into the 2012 Easter Debate. It is certainly keeping the brain alert.

However come two days time no doubt it will all be back to normal.

The fact of the matter is really hypothetical as it was on observation the way I see it.

The site team Mess 36 has hit the nail on the head by stating debtors have alot of power to ensure that DCA's act in a responsible manner in all areas of their business.

They can quote what they want and hide behind all manner of devious practices but usually are found to have acted incorrectly.

Count to ten before acting and I am sure you'll with the help of this site come up with correct procedure to flout any of their actions.

Edited April 8, 2012 by reginald perrin
My fingers are old and I hit the button before I meant to!.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It is a simple fact no one has the right to have knowledge

of commercially sensitive data, (used to be called trade secrets)!!!

A judge may in extraordinary circumstances require to the deed

to be produced but it will not be revealed to the debtor.

When debts are sold it is the ''account/agreement'' and all that

goes with it that's aquired by the debt purhaser, this is what gives the

DCA the right to serach credit files and update them.

[Conniff]

They also may not be aware of the actual cost as these things are usually sold as a portfolio, some in date and other not.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

How true some years ago I was an observer at a High Court

trial that involved a sale of debts the portfolio was worth 1.5m,

and the purchase price was not revealed just the value of the debts.

[Jamesx81x]

Hi guys

 

Glad i have started a good debate here as this matter really gets under my skin and by the way in which consumers can be sometimes treat.

 

I understand the point that is is classed as 'commercialy sensitive info' but in my view and i am guessing many others view it shouldnt be.

 

A consumer has the right to know all the information a creditor has on him, balances owed the lot. The same should apply to when a creditor then sells on your information to a DCA. If they can legally sell your personal information then a consumer should legally be allowed to know how much for. Easy to hide behind outdated laws that prejudice one party.

 

It should also be written into to T&C's that it is possible that the creditor may sell on the outstanding balance to such third parties. If it is not they should lose the right to do so in the same way they lose other rights when other information is missing.

 

The main part of what i orignally intended to point out though and what i would like to see happen is that if a creditor is willing to accept a reduced amount from a DCA the offer should first be made to the consumer. If nothing else they will then have been given the opprtunity to fully discharge their obligations and move on.

 

The way the debt collection industry is ran needs a complete overhaul and bringing into modern times, they get away with far too much to the detriment of the consumer. Please bear in mind i am not saying make it easier for people to avoid their obligations simply be given a fairer chance to clear their name and debt.

 

James

[Fred Bassett]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of everything stated above, in my opinion, the very fact of a creditor selling the debt blows out of the water any moral obligation the debtor has of paying it. For instance, I now have a 'debt' with Arrow Global. They acquired this from MBNA. I have never had any kind of financial relationship with Arrow Global so can anybody give me any good moral reason at all why I should pay them a penny?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It's already wriiten into regulated agreements that the data onthr account

can be sold, shared or assigned with or to a third party in all agreements.

The fact is simply the debt is an assett its' sale value is irealvent in this

situation to the debtor.

You have a financial obligation to whoever purchased the debt because you signed an agreement saying that the OC could sell. assign or share the data.

The agreement has been sold with ALL the rights and obligations of that agreement.

Your argument fails on this point, it may not be ''right'' but it fact.

[dadofholly]

At the end of the day you have no lawful right to know how much they paid fo the debt.

 

It may be wrong - but thats the way it is - and can not be used as any kind of defence or argument in court.

 

James - i am afraid the consumer does not have a right to know - do you have the right to know how much Tesco pays for it's beans?

[Jamesx81x]

Did I say you 'did' or that you 'should' big difference

 

Who cares how much Tesco pays for their beans! Their beans are not involved in a debtors personal sensitive information

 

Any information someone holds about you should be made available to you simple as that

 

And like i said in my last post that is more of a side issue to my main point

[Jamesx81x]

Brigadier I understand what you are saying and I know things are currently as they are no matter how unfair

 

You state it is already written into agreements but is it written into every agreement?

 

I have gone through 2 of my current agreements I have and it only states information may be shared no where does it state may be sold!

 

So if I ever was to default on them not that I will just an example what right have they to sell the balance on in the future?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It is not information about you it is about an amount of money owed under contract

the debtor has defaulted on that contract and the OC has sold their interest in that

contract legally for how much has no relevance to the debtor from then on.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

There is I expect some where a statment regarding succesors to the agreement.

[Jamesx81x]

Yep understand that bit

 

But what right have they to sell on your information when you have not given them permission to do so?

 

If it is written in agreements then fair enough, don't agree with it but that's how it is! If it is not written as a t&c that you have signed to agree then they should lose that right

[Jamesx81x]

I will need to look for that section if there is one

 

As said I am only using my agreements as an example as they are currently live but I am sure many agreements that have been sold in the past will have been missing such info

 

At the end of it, it all comes down to how fair the current system is and what areas need to be changed

 

I feel as do others that a creditor should be obliged to offer the same deal to the debtor first should be something that is changed

[Old Cogger]

Here is another one for you:-

 

You S.A.R. for copies of ALL correspondence etc they have on you,!!! BUT I.C.O. etc say that a copy of CCA on payment of GBP1.00, why not in the S.A.R.? again double standards?

[sleepingdog]

Hi all, interesting thread, Brigadier from what you quite rightly state that when the creditor sells the debt on then all rights are transfered to new owner this includes the right to data.

But if there is no agreement in the first place then would the new owner of alleged debt have any rights to your data.

Reason I ask is that with 1 of my debts there was never an agreement and I wonder what rights a new owner would have if the debt gets sold on.

sleepingdog

[Michelangelo48]

Excellent-Human Rights 2000. Article. 6 does take precedence over commercial Interest! EUlaw- Credit Directive 43 Reg36.16 creditor to provide information on debt in a transparent, unambiguous, clear way! S14 CCA 1974 Fairness, COBS principles 6,7,8,BCOBS Reg 5.1.1-Fairness PCUTR 2008! FOI 2000- All domestic legislation UNDER EU Law-this why Laws change!