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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Irwin Mitchell want more PCM on old Natwest Debt CCJ.


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Irwin Mitchell took me court and gained a CCJ against me 5 years ago.

 

Payment was offered and excepted and has never been missed.

 

However, today they sent me a statement and despite paying over £70 a month I owe £3k more than when I started

and they now require me to complete an I&E form.

 

Do I have to do this seeing it is a CCJ ?

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Were they allowed to add post judgment interest ? What did it say on the order from the court!

 

Apart from which, if the court ordered you to pay the sum of £70.00 per month, then that is all you need pay and Irwin Mitchell will need to take further court action in order to ask the Judge to increase the amount.

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Hi, A couple of questions what was the CCJ for,

and what was the exact order made by the court?

It seems that interest is being added from what you

say.

What length of time did the court order that these

payments should be made over.

Does the statement of account show how your

payments are allocated, and what is being added

each month?

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Hi, A couple of questions what was the CCJ for,

and what was the exact order made by the court?

It seems that interest is being added from what you

say.

What length of time did the court order that these

payments should be made over.

Does the statement of account show how your

payments are allocated, and what is being added

each month?

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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I telephoned them today and the balance was an error and they gave me the correct amount and no interest is being added.

 

However they are insisting they they are quite within in their rights to ask for an Income and Expenditure

update as according to themselves the CCJ was made on a temporary basis ?

 

 

Never heard this before ?

 

Shall I just ignore the request ?

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Emmmmm, Have you got your copy of the judgement??

If not you need to get a copy and check exactly what the

the judgement was and on what terms the payments are

to be made.

Brig.

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Ok I telephoned them today and the balance was an error and they gave me the correct amount and no interest is being added.

However they are insisting they they are quite within in their rights to ask for an Income and Expenditure update as according to themselves the CCJ was made on a temporary basis ? Never heard this before ?

Shall I just ignore the request ?

 

What utter rubbish. You really need to know what the court order said. If it was only temporary, why have they waited 5 years to contact about an I&E ??

 

I think the first thing you need to do is to WRITE to them confirming the outcome of your telephone conversation. That they had misrepresented the amount outstanding and that YOU require a properly audited statement immediately, showing the correct amount.

 

At the same time you can confirm that there has been no change in your financial circumstances since the Court made the order. In fact you could state that due to the economical situation you are probably in a worst situation than you were at that time however, you will continue to honour the payment order made by the court.

 

HTH

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ditto

one poss reason why they may be asking for updated info is as you suggest maybe that they want to consider applying for a variation to increase payments.

but, as citb says, judgment is 70/month and your circumstances have not improved, and may even be worse.

imo

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It strikes me there may be provision

for review in the actual court order.

 

Which is why we need to see the order. However, my question still remains.. how come they have waited 5 years to ask for a review ?

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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However, my question still remains.. how come they have waited 5 years to ask for a review ?

There's a recession on ya know!:scared: They want more money to buy chocolate hob nobs...:tea:

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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There's a recession on ya know!:scared: They want more money to buy chocolate hob nobs...:tea:

 

Been so long since I had such a luxury.. you will have to remind me what they are :lol:

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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everett

ooi how much roughly is the total ccj for?

as stated above, unless the order says '.....to be reviewed by the court in x mths' or the like, then they can safely bog off?

if your circumstance are indeed alot worse, then you could consider applying for a variation to decrease amount of payments! a court fee though unless exempt. but, that would p them off :)

imo

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typo
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I have the Judgement in front of me its actually 4 years not 5 sorry !

 

But absolutely nothing ordering a review.

 

It tells

 

That I have made an offer of payment which as been excepted

It is therefore ordered that you must pay the claimant £xx.xx for debt

[and interest to date of judgement] and £340.00 in costs.

 

You must pay the claimant a total of £xx.xx

 

By instalments of £xx.xx

 

And the first payment to reach the claimant by 00/00/00

 

Absolutely nothing about reviews.

 

As for the interest that was agreed to be frozen by Nat West the OC.

 

Ok here is a copy of the CCJ.

CCJ irwin.pdf

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From reading what you posted earlier, I cant see anything to suggest they are able to simply ask you to increase your payments or prove that you can. It would appear to me that if they want to do that, then they must do it correctly and ask the court for a variation.. at which time you will be asked by the COURT to provide an Income and Expenditure sheet..

 

HTH

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Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

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1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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  • 1 month later...

5 years ago,

despite paying the same amount through the CCCS

Nat West gained a CCJ against me to “give the debt some security” in their words.

 

They used the law firm Irwin Mitchell to do this.

 

Since then Irwin Mitchell have been administering the debt,

and I pay the amount to them every month ( via Standing Order ) without failure.

 

Just recently though, they have said they require an Income and expenditure form to be completed by myself.

 

Having took advice from this site ,

and nowhere in the CCJ does it provide for a regular review,

I ignored their requests ( four in total and in writing ).

 

However things have turned a little more sinister from Irwin Mitchell.

 

Two weeks ago I received a letter saying that since I had ignored their requests for an I&E to be completed

they where now considering obtaining a re - determination and applying for a forthwith-charging order.

 

Today I received a letter from them thanking me for my continued payments via standing order

but that they would no longer be using the account my payment is made into,

and I must contact them to discuss options to amend my payment details.

 

Surely they should provide a new account number and sort code if this is the case and not ask me to contact them to discuss options ?

 

I think this is a ploy to obtain a charging order by saying I have not made payments

after they return them because their account is no longer open?

 

What should I do?

 

Should I continue to make payments to the account as instructed by the court ?

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I would go back to the court with their letter and ask for a hearing for them to explain their actions - sounds very very odd to me - or you could do an N244 Variation and ask to pay LESS which would really really annoy them.t

 

The amount the CCJ was set at is fixed, and only the court can vary it now - especially after all this time.

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The bit about them changing the account you need to pay into is a ruse to get you to ring them and then be bullied lied and conned into paying more than the court order.

Formal complaint to these fools using their own complaints procedure http://www.irwinmitchell.com/aboutus/complaints/Pages/default.aspx

 

And then alert the legal ombudsman of their tactics http://www.legalombudsman.org.uk/

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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  • 4 months later...

I noticed this morning when checking through my bank account that IM have returned my last two Standing Order Payments.

 

As they made it clear from the outset that they intended to gain a charging order against my property

I think that this is another underhanded tactic to get their wish.

 

What is my next move ?

 

Is it possible that the CCJ has been handed back to the OC ?

Or they have changed account details and failed to notify me ?

 

Should I send them a cheque/PO for the amount returned ?

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Yes send them a postal order or cheque and ask them for their new bank details for the standing order.

 

According to your post of 5 November they told you that the account used for standing orders was going to be closed and asked you to confirm new payment arrangements.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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No!

After informing them that the CCJ did not require any kind of review, and then asking them for their complaints procedure and threatening to report them to the FO, they sent me a letter saying that it was computer generated and to ignore it.

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