Complience Officer: Savings Overpayment on JSA - Worried!

[jojotaro]

Had a visit from a compliance officer the other day and realize I'm likely to get into big trouble. I'm very stressed right now as I know I'm in the wrong. I now just want to put things right as soon as possible and pay back all that I owe, but don't think it will be that straight forward.

 

To keep it short, their computer system flagged up tax I had been paying on a savings account I had in 2008 which I had not declared. The compliance officer suggested the amount was around £9000. I then signed a declaration saying I have not had savings while claiming JSA.

 

However I have had a number of savings accounts totalling sums over £16,000 for several years until the start of 2011. During these years I have claimed JSA on and off when not employed and I realize I should not have been entitled to any benefits.

 

I want to pay back everything I owe and be done with the stress and guilt hanging over me. What will happen to me if I offer to immediately pay back all JSA benefits paid to me in 2008 and also and since then? Even though at this stage they only suspect a few hundred in overpayment for 2008, I roughly worked this out as around £6200 in JSA claimed since this date.

 

I assume that a fraud investigation will still want to go ahead to confirm the specifics and prosecute me as a matter of course/principle? As I have accumulated benefits for several years for my JSA claims, I assume the penalties will be severe?

 

Any advice on what to do would be appreciated.

Edited February 18, 2012 by jojotaro

[cranberryjuice]

personal question, how much savings did/do you have?

 

i work with a housing benefit fraud investigator and she told me that they have acsess to all accounts - i find that terrible tbh but not alot can be done i suppose?

 

if your savings are around the threshold i guess they would be less harsh on you, but there is an article on todays daily mail website about a woman who claimed 90k benefit whilst sitting on 180k savings, she got sent to jail for 12 weeks,

 

be honest.

[jadeybags]

personal question, how much savings did/do you have?

 

i work with a housing benefit fraud investigator and she told me that they have acsess to all accounts - i find that terrible tbh but not alot can be done i suppose?

 

if your savings are around the threshold i guess they would be less harsh on you, but there is an article on todays daily mail website about a woman who claimed 90k benefit whilst sitting on 180k savings, she got sent to jail for 12 weeks,

 

be honest.

 

That's good news then as 90k is a whole lot & 12 weeks for that amount isn't really.

OP, anything 16k & over means not entitled to benefits, but it wouldn't take all that long to get under that 16k if not claiming benefits & living off savings, so as soon as you go under 16k, it's 1 pound taken off for every 250 pounds, then once you get below 6k, you get full benefit.

Don't know if that helps. Prosecution isn't a given, but more likely if the amount is over 2k. But prison is always more unlikely than anything else.

[frankj]

When you are interviewed by a compliance officer from the DWP they can not then start a fraud investigation.

 

You will have to pay any money you can have been overpaid but no further action will be taken.

[jadeybags]

When you are interviewed by a compliance officer from the DWP they can not then start a fraud investigation.

 

You will have to pay any money you can have been overpaid but no further action will be taken.

 

They can't? Hmmm must be different rules to Local authorities then, as I had a compliance visit, after 2 yrs on housing benefit, which revealed they had worked my benefits out wrong, which led to an over payment, which went on to an IUC? Which ended up no further action, apart from paying back the over payment, but I assumed it really was just a compliance visit originally?

[Nystagmite]

OP, anything 16k & over means not entitled to benefits,

 

Only income based benefits. (not tax credits)

[frankj]

The post relates to jsa, administered by the dwp not the council. The working practices of the dwp & council's differ, after interview by dwp compliance there is no route for them to pass the case to the fraud investigation service therefore no action apart from overpayment recovery can take place.

[jabba jones]

When you are interviewed by a compliance officer from the DWP they can not then start a fraud investigation..

 

Partially true. The statement taken by the Compliance officer will have ended this particular investigation, however there is nothing to stop another investigation starting the next time they do a matching exercise with the HMRC. The signed statement is then damning evidence of fraud.

 

Admit it now and you may stop all this from happening.

[Life-Goes-On]

what type of JSA, and how long where you claiming at the different times?

[id6052]

if you admit the undeclared capital during the compliance exercise, they will not conduct an investigation or consider prosecution

 

if however you deny the capital during the compliance exercise, they may refer the case to the investigation service, who can obtain details of capital held in any accounts and may result in a prosecution

[jadeybags]

Only income based benefits. (not tax credits)

 

Good point, although the OP mentioned JSA.

I'm not a big believer in tax credits being classed as a 'benefit' either to be honest.

I figured that may have been the reason it was put in a sub forum on here too?

[jojotaro]

My case has taken about 15 months to resolve. So much stress and worry, but wanted to give a quick update now that it's finally over (I hope!):

 

I wrote to the compliance officer shortly after his visit admitting I'd be in receipt of benefits when I had savings way over the threshold and wanted to pay back anything I owed. I hoped getting in there early rather than keeping quiet would help my case. This may have been a mistake and regret not seeking legal help before writing the confession letter.

 

Nearly a year went by without further contact from the Jobcentre or fraud investigation team. Eventually they did get back in touch and I was asked to attend an interview under caution. Before attending this I got legal help from a solicitor, who helped with my case but she initially suspected I would end up prosecuted, serving a short time in prison or community service. I was very worried about this!

 

For some reason the investigators looking into my case were only concerned with savings and benefits during a 3 year period and did not investigate prior to this despite confessing to more in the letter I had wrote to them. They had some of my bank statements printed off to support their case. Although I think they may have been unable to able to gain access to other statements from different banks I had money with during my times claiming JSA and this lack of evidence may have spared me significantly.

 

In the end I was asked to pay back approx £1300 in overpaid benefits and approx a £300 administration fine. This was A LOT better outcome than I and my solicitor expected. I was not prosecuted and as far as I know my case is now closed.

 

I'm so glad the worry and stress of this case is over- it really took it's toll on me and my family and have learned a harsh lesson from the experience.

[Treacle74]

My case has taken about 15 months to resolve. So much stress and worry, but wanted to give a quick update now that it's finally over (I hope!):

 

I wrote to the compliance officer shortly after his visit admitting I'd be in receipt of benefits when I had savings way over the threshold and wanted to pay back anything I owed. I hoped getting in there early rather than keeping quiet would help my case. This may have been a mistake and regret not seeking legal help before writing the confession letter.

 

Nearly a year went by without further contact from the Jobcentre or fraud investigation team. Eventually they did get back in touch and I was asked to attend an interview under caution. Before attending this I got legal help from a solicitor, who helped with my case but she initially suspected I would end up prosecuted, serving a short time in prison or community service. I was very worried about this!

 

For some reason the investigators looking into my case were only concerned with savings and benefits during a 3 year period and did not investigate prior to this despite confessing to more in the letter I had wrote to them. They had some of my bank statements printed off to support their case. Although I think they may have been unable to able to gain access to other statements from different banks I had money with during my times claiming JSA and this lack of evidence may have spared me significantly.

 

In the end I was asked to pay back approx £1300 in overpaid benefits and approx a £300 administration fine. This was A LOT better outcome than I and my solicitor expected. I was not prosecuted and as far as I know my case is now closed.

 

I'm so glad the worry and stress of this case is over- it really took it's toll on me and my family and have learned a harsh lesson from the experience.

 

I am in a similar situation. I had my interview and gave statements to show my current financial situation but the officer did not ask about any previous savings accounts. Just said he would send the paperwork off and I would receive a letter with the revised benefit amount. Surely they would want to see bank statements etc for the past 3 years and ask me some more questions? should I be worried? I don't want to be naive

[tomtom256]

When you are interviewed by a compliance officer from the DWP they can not then start a fraud investigation.

 

You will have to pay any money you can have been overpaid but no further action will be taken.

 

Actually they can if further evidence comes to light or the truth hasn't been given at the compliance interview. MF47's aka informal statements are often used at a later date as evidence in investigations.

 

As the OP stated they had no savings at the interview and have now realised there mistake, I would back in touch with the compliance officer pretty quickly and explain you made a mistake and that you now realise you did have savings.

[Treacle74]

Actually they can if further evidence comes to light or the truth hasn't been given at the compliance interview. MF47's aka informal statements are often used at a later date as evidence in investigations.

 

As the OP stated they had no savings at the interview and have now realised there mistake, I would back in touch with the compliance officer pretty quickly and explain you made a mistake and that you now realise you did have savings.

 

I wasn't sure if your advice was for me?…I had my interview this week, I wasn't asked many questions, only do you have an ISA (yes here are the statements) do you have any other savings (no) do you have any other income (no) and that was it I was told i'd receive a letter with the new calculations…this has really confused me as I had printed off all my statements for the past 3 years and prepared a written statement with my confession but he wasn't interested in seeing it….so now I'm not sure what to do? do you have experience in these things?

[ASIIndustries]

1. Contribution-based JSA

If you’ve been working and paying Class 1 National Insurance Contributions for most of the past two full tax years, you may be able to claim contribution-based JSA. You can only claim for six months, but if you’re still looking for work you may be able to claim income-based JSA after that (see below).

 

• You can’t get contribution-based JSA if you’ve only been self-employed (you might be able to get income-based JSA instead).
  
• Your savings, or a partner’s earnings don’t affect the money you’ll get.
  
• You can only claim contribution-based JSA for yourself (not a partner).
  

 

2. Income-based JSA.

The majority of JSA claims are for income-based JSA.

 

• If you (and your partner if you live together) have over £6000 in savings, your JSA will be reduced. If you have £16,000 or more you won’t get anything.
  
• You can claim income-based JSA as a couple.
  
• You can claim income-based JSA at the same time as contribution-based JSA if you’re claiming for a partner, you’re disabled, or you’re caring for someone disabled.
  

[Treacle74]

Actually they can if further evidence comes to light or the truth hasn't been given at the compliance interview. MF47's aka informal statements are often used at a later date as evidence in investigations.

 

As the OP stated they had no savings at the interview and have now realised there mistake, I would back in touch with the compliance officer pretty quickly and explain you made a mistake and that you now realise you did have savings.

 

I wasn't sure if your reply was for me, but I ender if you are able to advise? I had an appointment with the CAB they helped me draft a statement to give to the interviewer regarding my situation/circumstances and overpayment. I also drafted a similar letter to the council regarding my housing benefit, which I posted straight away.

I had a very brief interview and wasn't given the chance to give my written statement, even though I said I had one. I was asked if I had a ISA, I showed him my current ISA statement. He asked about my current account, again I showed him my statement. He asked if I had any other income and if I had any other accounts with any large pockets of money in, to both I replied no. He then said I was free to go and I would receive a letter and there would be a reduction to my current benefit.

Now I'm very anxious, I have been claiming for 3 years, surely he has a record of money that has been and gone in my accounts, there were no questions regarding any other past savings accounts, but surly they have knowledge of these? so I'm not sure what to do now? should I send my CAB statement in the post to him?

[Sick1]

Hi, Treacle,

I got called for a compliance interview in June 2011, I had over the limit moneys that I had saved for a suitable vehicle for my health. The adjudicator said I could go and spend the money on that vehicle and they asked me to pay the money back at around £11 per week. They also said I could appeal the overpayment which took another couple of years. Amazingly, they then sent a letter just before the appeal date and said I cannot appeal against an overpayment. Strange, but I decided, seeing as it was a 100 mile round journey I wouldn't attend as I have a lot of health issues. I received a letter saying I still had to pay back and it is taken out of my money each week.

 

 

I see on here there a conflicting posts as to whether it would go further into prosecution or not. I still somehow expect a letter through the post even though it's been 3 and a half years. My advice is hang on to your letter until they ask to see you again. I know how you feel. It's enough to send you over the top really. Also DWP are lousy at responding to anything you might ask. They just won't tell you exactly what is going on. I don't know how long your case will go on for but I just don't want you suffering the way I did. The worry alone exacerbated all my health issues and it's hard to get over this kind of thing and move on.

 

 

I would carry on as normally as possible and await a letter from them. I'm sure it will come but until then you can do nothing.

I'm wishing you good luck though as it is traumatic to never know exactly when the whole situation is over.

[jojotaro]

Treacle74,

 

My advice is to sit tight. Don't send in anything else to the compliance officer. If you have another interveiw under caution, or things go to court, THEN it's up to your lawyer to decide what you need to disclose and when.

 

In my case they had obviously got info about my undeclared savings by liaising with the tax man- or at least, I was paying tax on savings so that brought up a red flag on the Job Centre's system and so was I was investigated.

 

You've now had your interview and benefits have been adjusted. So that should be the end of it.

If you are still sitting on a large wad of undeclared savings which you know brings you over the benefit claims threshold, come off of benefits and use that money to support yourself.

[Treacle74]

Treacle74,

 

My advice is to sit tight. Don't send in anything else to the compliance officer. If you have another interveiw under caution, or things go to court, THEN it's up to your lawyer to decide what you need to disclose and when.

 

In my case they had obviously got info about my undeclared savings by liaising with the tax man- or at least, I was paying tax on savings so that brought up a red flag on the Job Centre's system and so was I was investigated.

 

You've now had your interview and benefits have been adjusted. So that should be the end of it.

If you are still sitting on a large wad of undeclared savings which you know brings you over the benefit claims threshold, come off of benefits and use that money to support yourself.

H Jojo, thanks for replying. I haven't received anything to say my benefit has been adjusted yet and it is still being paid into my account in full. I am confused as I wasn't asked to show any bank statements. I do not have any savings now that they are not aware of. Were you asked to produce anything? how long was it before you heard anything after your initial interview? I've got myself in such a state of worry I'm not sure what to think or do.