Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[estellyn]

yes to a degree, however there is situations where some aids have to be disregarded, in this case it can be about walking. eg. if a specialist has deemed a wheelchair as unsuitable for use, the ATOS assessor is supposed to not assess based on ability to mobilise in a wheelchair. Of course the ATOS assessor can choose to disagree with a specialist and then still assess based on mobilising in a wheelchair.

 

Also the bit I posted about walking was from the DLA handbook.

 

Yes I had the wheelchair issue disregarded as it would not be suitable for me - but then I'd gone into great detail as to why it wouldn't be suitable on the ESA50.

[**Margaret**]

The Indie 29 August 12:

 

'Atos has 98 recording machines ......'

 

98 - 11 (assuming the broken ones are now repaired) = 87 new machines. Wow!!

Between 148 Atos centres. Double wow!! Soon have one per centre.

Are we convinced:?:

Can we justify this expense to the taxpayer:?:

 

A cynical Margaret.

Edited August 30, 2012 by **Margaret**

[worried33]

Well lets see how much longer you waiting so we can then see how efficient they are with all these new machines.

[tony1512]

If it also messes up ATOS' deadlines for getting everyone off IB, that's an even bigger bonus. In fact, I believe earlier in this thread I suggested that everyone going through reassessment should ask for a recording because they definitely have nothing to lose.

 

could i take my own duel recording equipment and give the hcp a copy on completion of the medical???

[**Margaret**]

tony1512:

 

Errr ...... probably not. Even if you do have your personal sound engineer in tow. The procedure for audio recorded messicals changed late last year. Revised guidance finally made it into the Atosssers' work capability assessment handbook on 5 July 12.

 

Current procedure for getting one's messical audio recorded?

Read the preceeding thirty-five pages of this thread and you'll be as wise as the rest of us. Or not. Every statement from DWATO contradicts its' predecessor.

 

'everyone going through reassessment should ask for a recording'?

 

My personal opinion is that everyone going through reassessment, or initial assessment, who wants an audio record of their interview should ask for it. Not everyone wants, or can wait for, an audio record because of:

Being stuck on assessment rate employment and support for months on end.

The sheer stress of fighting for an audio recorded messical.

Not feeling comfortable with being recorded or the sound of one's own voice.

 

Should you be facing an Atos appointment that you want recorded;

Good luck, Margaret.

Edited September 1, 2012 by **Margaret**

[tony1512]

tony1512:

 

Errr ...... probably not. Even if you do have your personal sound engineer in tow. The procedure for audio recorded messicals changed late last year. Revised guidance finally made it into the Atosssers' work capability assessment handbook on 5 July 12.

 

Current procedure for getting one's messical audio recorded?

Read the preceeding thirty-five pages of this thread and you'll be as wise as the rest of us. Or not. Every statement from DWATO contradicts its' predecessor.

 

'everyone going through reassessment should ask for a recording'?

 

My personal opinion is that everyone going through reassessment, or initial assessment, who wants an audio record of their interview should ask for it. Not everyone wants, or can wait, for an audio record because of:

Being stuck on assessment rate employment and support for months on end.

The sheer stress of fighting for an audio recorded messical.

Not feeling comfortable with being recorded or the sound of one's own voice.

 

Should you be facing an Atos appointment that you want recorded;

Good luck, Margaret.

 

 

unfortunatly i am not in the position of being able to wait. as i missed a medical. so now i have only had 2 crisiss loan totaling £160 since june, and been refused another on the basis that the original person who sanctioned me has decided he was not wrong. so i am not entitled to any money from them until i go to independant apeal. my medical is for a new claim that they have told me probably will not be successful as it is for the same reasons as my original claim( severe depression. and agrophobia)

they told me to claim jsa, but would be turned down because i am clearly not fit for work. and if i claim jsa i would be admitting i dont need esa.

dammed if i do, dammed if i dont.

if they turn me down on wednesday. for sure i am going to be another statistic, because if i dont kill myself. i will die from starvation.

so please please please.... do as they tell you. or the punishment will be severe.

Edited September 1, 2012 by tony1512

[**Margaret**]

tony1512:

 

This is going to be short and sweet cos I should've been elsewhere like fifteen minutes ago.

 

Trawl back through the pages of this thread and you'll find my plan B, which is taking notes. The Atossers don't like it but even they admit it's legal. You may have to wave the relevant pages of section 4 of their handbook at the assessor.

(Copy of the handbook on the Work n Pensions website.)

 

Should you be technology literate (I'm not, but trying to learn in case I need it) this thread also discusses covert recording for them as can cope with it. Like notes, it's legal, but unfairly, it carries a risk of Atos saying you failed to attend if you're caught.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

Edited September 1, 2012 by **Margaret**

[worried33]

If writing notes get a companion to do it, as I am fairly sure someone writing notes who is been assessed would be found fit for work just on that basis alone.

[gregbythesea]

If writing notes get a companion to do it, as I am fairly sure someone writing notes who is been assessed would be found fit for work just on that basis alone.

 

There are many self employed secretaries that take shorthand for a reasonable fee. Writing notes longhand will take time and important bits could be missed - shorthand is much better.

Plus you can call her/him as a witness to the Tribunal if necessary to verify the contents of those notes.

[osdset]

Employing secretaries, witnesses, paying for doctors letters, medical records. How long before we see 'getting you through your WCA, and appeal' insurance?

[**Margaret**]

'getting you through your WCA, and appeal' insurance:

 

According to Mr Duncan Smith we've already got it. Can't remember where, but I read one newspaper article wherein he was moaning that, 'the site we don't mention' offers refunds if an application for a disability benefit is unsuccessful.

 

We wish.

 

Margaret.

Edited September 2, 2012 by **Margaret**

[**Margaret**]

The Guardian 3 September 12:

 

Among the comments;

 

'They insisted on recording it (an Atos assessment)...... At the conclusion of the 'examination' the machine gave an error message.' The asessor refused to test the playback claiming it would breach data protection.

 

A genuine mistake? Or their latest 'get out' clause?

 

Margaret.

[worried33]

got a web link?

[**Margaret**]

The Guardian 3 September 12:

Not got a clue how to do web links but there's one at the beginning of :estellyn:'s thread about destitution and forced labour for employment and support allowance claimants.

Margaret.

[worried33]

I read it now anyway as someone else gave me that story.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/sep/03/disabled-benefits-claimants-fines-work

 

This lot never stop do they.

 

I havent tried to use my cd yet, it scares me. As I dont really want to listen to my own WCA.

[nolegion]

This acknowledgment particularly caught my eye me amongst a number of reluctant responses to well-aimed FoI requests finally produced a tthe WDTK site today

 

" If a claimant states that s/he wishes to record theirWCA using their own equipment, for example mobile phone, the HCPwill offer to reschedule the WCA for another day when Atos recording equipment is available." (DWP)

 

From:-

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/126477/response/313874/attach/3/3712%203229%20Mr%20Slater%20Response.pdf

 

Please note:

 

1. The circumstances concerned are that a claimant ('all innocent'), without prior communication about recording, turns up saying he or she wants to record – e.g. on a mobile phone.

 

2. The HCP must proceed as the DWP has stated above – because the now well-known case CIB/3117/ 2008 says they have to do at least that.

 

3. The claimant thus secures a deferral of the WCA. DWATO have no option.

 

4. According, again, to CIB/3117/2008, in these circumstances, the advice as to how the rescheduled WCA can be recorded must be given to the claimant IN WRITING. (And given the communication inadequacies of DWATO that could take a very long time indeed.)

 

5. However, the DWP has not advised claimants at large and in advance in writing about the current recording rules and does not want to - because that would alert far more claimants than they can handle to their entitlement to a recording. So the DWP are hoist with their own petard.

 

The proper and fair way out for all concerned is for DWATO fully and clearly to advise claimants of their rights ,no later than when submitting a claim - new or 'renewal' - rather than remaining 'screwed-shut'. But they dare not, and have not these past several years.

 

So, er, 'use a screwdriver' on them.

Edited September 18, 2012 by nolegion

[**Margaret**]

:And in another reluctant response from whatdotheyknow:

 

Relevant to those of us who've already requested an audio record of a messical;

 

'If audio recording has been arranged for an assessment, is it standard practice to send the claimant written confirmation?'

 

(DWATO's SPG, not mine)

'It is not practise for claimants to be issued with a letter to confirm that their work capability assessment would be recorded, as it is confirmed when the claimant contacts Atos Healthcare to confirm that they will be attending the appointment at the Medical Assessment Centre.'

 

As to why some, but not all, claimants get letters:?: Further fudge:?:

 

And allegedly; only '9 requests for audio recordings have been turned down, which were due to the unavailability of recording equipment ......'

 

Margaret

Edited September 19, 2012 by **Margaret**

[Crazy Diamond]

This acknowledgment particularly caught my eye me amongst a number of reluctant responses to well-aimed FoI requests finally produced a tthe WDTK site today

 

" If a claimant states that s/he wishes to record theirWCA using their own equipment, for example mobile phone, the HCPwill offer to reschedule the WCA for another day when Atos recording equipment is available." (DWP)

 

From:-

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/126477/response/313874/attach/3/3712%203229%20Mr%20Slater%20Response.pdf

 

Please note:

 

1. The circumstances concerned are that a claimant ('all innocent'), without prior communication about recording, turns up saying he or she wants to record – e.g. on a mobile phone.

 

2. The HCP must proceed as the DWP has stated above – because the now well-known case CIB/3117/ 2008 says they have to do at least that.

 

3. The claimant thus secures a deferral of the WCA. DWATO have no option.

 

4. According, again, to CIB/3117/2008, in these circumstances, the advice as to how the rescheduled WCA can be recorded must be given to the claimant IN WRITING. (And given the communication inadequacies of DWATO that could take a very long time indeed.)

 

5. However, the DWP has not advised claimants at large and in advance in writing about the current recording rules and does not want to - because that would alert far more claimants than they can handle to their entitlement to a recording. So the DWP are hoist with their own petard.

 

The proper and fair way out for all concerned is for DWATO fully and clearly to advise claimants of their rights ,no later than when submitting a claim - new or 'renewal' - rather than remaining 'screwed-shut'. But they dare not, and have not these past several years.

 

So, er, 'use a screwdriver' on them.

 

 

Good post, nolegion! Permission to copy to other disability groups, please?

[reallymadwoman]

ATOS booking staff are still routinely saying that home assessments cannot be recorded. This is not true, some assessments have already been recorded and mine was booked as a recorded assessment and confirmed as such on the appointment letter, though it hasn't actually happened yet.

 

Whether your assessment is at home or not though, if you have asked for a recorded assessment and your appointment letter (appointments must be confirmed in writing) doesn't state that your assessment will be recorded you can

 

1. turn up anyway (or let the doc turn up) and tell them you're going to record using your phone/MP3/whatever. If they have arranged for recording equipment they tell you there's no need and your assessment goes ahead. If not, they'll then offer you a 'proper' recorded assessment, you go home (or the doc leaves) and wait for the appointment. How long you wait does seem to depend upon area.

 

2. phone them to check and ask for confirmation in writing if they say they'll have to cancel and reschedule.

 

3. email customer services to check.

 

4. record covertly.

 

Which option you choose may depend upon how much you enjoy wasting ATOS' time (and your own), how much you trust what ATOS booking staff say on the phone, and to a certain extent how long you can afford to wait for your benefit to be paid at the proper rate.

 

In my opinion, you should always get everything in writing from ATOS and if you ask for written confirmation it never seems to turn up, so I'm now using email. Customer services might trying to tell you they can't rearrange appointments on your behalf, but if you're persistent they do do it eventually.

[**Margaret**]

:Everything in writing:

 

Can't over empathise the importance of everything in writing to and from Atos, one way or another;

 

Snail mail, signed for if you can afford it cos even if it doesn't get there you can prove it was sent.

 

Or, print the electronic mails.

 

During the last five years or so, a friend and I've had three failure to attend disputes, all of them caused by DWATO errors. We've won every one of them cos we've had a paper trail to sling at Jobcentreplus.

 

One of the incidents gave us a laugh. Out of the blue, and nine months after the event, I received a disallowance notice. My paperchase was safely filed away. The paperchase the decision maker thought she needed had been sent into Work n Pensions storage and couldn't be retreived.

 

So ...... everything in writing. You may, more likely will, need it.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

[keefyboy]

sorry to seem a little thick here, but what does DWATO means....?

[osdset]

sorry to seem a little thick here, but what does DWATO means....?

Drop the P from DWP and the S from ATOS put them together and you get DWATO

[**Margaret**]

:keefyboy:

 

DWATO lessens the chances of CAG, or any other site, getting done for libel.

 

See #263 for a full explanation.

 

Margaret.

Edited September 20, 2012 by **Margaret**

[keefyboy]

Thanks for that, as i said, got a lot of health issues at the mo and my brain will not engage at all................................... either that or I am am getting old........lol

[osdset]

No worries keefyboy, your avatar says it all anyway:-)