L-TSB... Wescot... numerous other DCAs... and now Iqor!

[MorganaNK]

I agree, their responses are idiotic... it is like they are talking about something completely different...

 

I know we have to pay, and we accept that as we have been down the documentation route; I just don't see why we have to negotiate, negotiate and renegotiate... we made an agreement; they picked a date, we told them we couldn't pay on that date but we could pay on X date... we paid on X date but they moved it on down the line of idiots anyway!

[citizenB]

The FOS are supposed to take into consideration all the guidance and regulatory laws.

 

One of those is from the OFT in that they should not instruct multiple agencies. Not only is it confusing but intimidatory.

 

Was this decision from the Ombudsman or one of the tea ladies ?

 

If it was first stage adjudication then you ask for it to be shoved up the ladder to a proper ombudsman.

 

 

We have the ombudsman's response and they have not found in our favour. We have to sign a form saying whether or not we accept the decision, and if we don't then neither party will be bound by it. The finding are as follows:

 

I have considered all that XXX and L-TSB have said and provided, in order to decide what is fair and reasonable in this complaint. - Rubbish there is nothing fair or reasonable in this decision, especially as it doesnt address the complaint made !!

While the debt remains outstanding L-TSB is entitled to instruct different recovery agents. The delay in making payments following the agreement with Wescot was unfortunate because it resulted in Debt Managers being instructed which understandably cause XXX some confusion. But I do not consider this merits an award of compensation.

 

I understand that XXX has not made any payments since May 2010. I urge XXX and L-TSB (through its agent) to work together to agree a mutally acceptable payment plan. If XXX is experiencing financial difficulties, I remind L-TSB of its responsibility to respond positively and sympathetically. - If you knew who the damn agent actually was then you would be happy to make payments - it is not and never has been your intention to avoid paying what is genuinely due.

 

I am currently spitting feathers at this because they seem to have completely ignored the whole point of us contacting them; and that was because we had an agreement with Wescot, we couldn't pay on the date Wescot wanted because we didn't have the money then, we made the payment on the date the money was available to us; they moved the debt on, first to Debt Managers and then to others. We were not prepared to "throw money into the ether and hope that it stuck to the account"... we wanted L-TSB to stop playing "musical debt collection agencies" so that we could make the payments to one company and know that the payments were going to clear the debt... is that unreasonable???

 

Any ideas on where I can go from here. Obviously I am not going to accept the decision; and I want to write to the ombudsman and tell them exactly what I think of them... but as they have ignored and misunderstood what I have already said *throws hands in the air in frustration*

 

All help will be gratefully received

 

Thanks

 

Mo

 

IMHO, you should indeed reject the decision and give your reasons why - make it quite clear what your original complaint was and that you believe that the decision fails to address that complaint.

 

You should quote from the decision and point out where you believe they have either deliberately mis understood or simply not taken the time to read and understand what you have said.

 

If you want to draft something up and pop it on the thread, then we can fine tune it for you.

[MorganaNK]

Thank you for your help CitizenB... this is the response from the actual ombudsman, we already rejected the first effort from a minion lower down the ladder!

 

I will work on something and post it here later.

 

Thanks again

 

Mo

[citizenB]

You can still reject the Ombudsman's decision and ask them to have a rethink.

[Old Cogger]

That was my point the Ombudsman sides in most cases in original judgment, waste of time in most cases asking to re look at it but always worth a try, but as for sending acceptance or not well, the contempt in their responses in most cases , I did not respond either way.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Old Cogger

[MorganaNK]

OK, this is what I have so far (and I borrowed a lot of your comments so thank you)... but I am not sure what to say to close the letter (as I may end up being rude)... or whether I am to return the form they asked us to sign... I want to send this but what, realistically am I asking them to do; revisit their final decision or am I escalating it to the head honcho??? Sorry for being a bit thick

 

I write with regard to your “Final Decision” dated the 1st February 2013 and received by us on the 4th February 2013.

 

I have to say that once again I am staggered by the contents of your correspondence. You say that you have “considered all that XXX and Lloyds TSB have said and provided, in order to decide what is fair and reasonable in this complaint”, a statement that is truly astonishing as the complaint made has not actually been addressed.

 

“While the debt remains outstanding Lloyds TSB is entitled to instruct different recovery agents. The delay in making payments following the agreement with Wescot was unfortunate because it resulted in Debt Managers being instructed which understandably caused XXX some confusion. But I do not consider this merits and award of compensation.” I would appreciate it if you would provide me with proof as to where in any of my correspondence with Lloyds TSB, its agents or yourselves compensation is requested. I would also like to bring to your attention the following paragraph, taken from the Office of Fair Trading 'Debt Collection Practices':

 

PHYSICAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL HARASSMENT

- multiple businesses attempting to collect the same debt at the same time can cause harassment, where more than one party is engaged with the collection of the same debt (and this could include the creditor and their agent debt collector as well as multiple agencies), actions will need to be carefully coordinated and the timely communication of accurate data about the status of the debt and the circumstances of the debtor is key.

 

“I understand XXX has not made any payments since May 2010. I urge XXX and Lloyds TSB (through its agent) to work together to agree a mutually acceptable payment plan. If she is experiencing financial difficulties, I remind Lloyds TSB of its responsibility to respond positively and sympathetically.” It has never been the intention to avoid paying what is genuinely due, but it is certainly not realistic to expect payments to be made a) on a date when the money is not physically available and b) when the initial lender keeps changing their agent and expecting renegotiation to take place on each occasion.

[citizenB]

OK, this is what I have so far (and I borrowed a lot of your comments so thank you)... but I am not sure what to say to close the letter (as I may end up being rude)... or whether I am to return the form they asked us to sign... I want to send this but what, realistically am I asking them to do; revisit their final decision or am I escalating it to the head honcho??? Sorry for being a bit thick

 

I write with regard to your “Final Decision” dated the 1st February 2013 and received by us on the 4th February 2013.

 

I have to say that once again I am staggered by the contents of your correspondence. You say that you have “considered all that XXX and Lloyds TSB have said and provided, in order to decide what is fair and reasonable in this complaint”, a statement that is truly astonishing as the complaint made has not actually been addressed.

 

“While the debt remains outstanding Lloyds TSB is entitled to instruct different recovery agents. The delay in making payments following the agreement with Wescot was unfortunate because it resulted in Debt Managers being instructed which understandably caused XXX some confusion. But I do not consider this merits and award of compensation.” I would appreciate it if you would provide me with proof as to where in any of my correspondence with Lloyds TSB, its agents or yourselves compensation is requested. I would also like to bring to your attention the following paragraph, taken from the Office of Fair Trading 'Debt Collection Practices':

 

PHYSICAL OR PSYCHOLOGICAL HARASSMENT

- multiple businesses attempting to collect the same debt at the same time can cause harassment, where more than one party is engaged with the collection of the same debt (and this could include the creditor and their agent debt collector as well as multiple agencies), actions will need to be carefully coordinated and the timely communication of accurate data about the status of the debt and the circumstances of the debtor is key.

 

“I understand XXX has not made any payments since May 2010. I urge XXX and Lloyds TSB (through its agent) to work together to agree a mutually acceptable payment plan. If she is experiencing financial difficulties, I remind Lloyds TSB of its responsibility to respond positively and sympathetically.” It has never been the intention to avoid paying what is genuinely due, but it is certainly not realistic to expect payments to be made a) on a date when the money is not physically available and b) when the initial lender keeps changing their agent and expecting renegotiation to take place on each occasion.

 

 

 

 

I am therefore requesting that you revisit your decision based on the further information I have provided, despite this a) already being in your possession and b) based on comments that were never made !.

 

I look forward to receiving your early response.

 

Etc, etc..

 

Other than that.. perfect

[MorganaNK]

Thank you!

 

[citizenB]

[MorganaNK]

Thank you for your letter of the 5 February 2013, your comments have been noted.

 

However, please note that our complaints procedure has now come to an end, as the ombudsman has issued a final decision. Therefore, we will be unable to enter into any further discussions about the merits of your complaint.

 

We need to know whether you accept or reject our final decisions by 1 March 2013. If we do not hear from you, in writing, by 1 March 2013 then neither you or Lloyds TSB will be bound by the final decision.

 

If you do decide to accept our final decision, you should sign, date and return the form enclosed with our letter of 1 February 2013.

 

Comments... suggestions... ideas... I have a few of my own but they would fill the swear box!

 

[unclebulgaria67]

I think I agree with the FOS in this instance. They have made a final decision and that is the end of the process. There is no point wasting printer ink in trying to change their minds. It is a case of whether you accept the decision of the FOS or not. You still have the option of using the courts, if you think you can present a case.

[Old Cogger]

I think I agree with the FOS in this instance. They have made a final decision and that is the end of the process. There is no point wasting printer ink in trying to change their minds. It is a case of whether you accept the decision of the FOS or not. You still have the option of using the courts, if you think you can present a case.

 

 

 

Do as I did just do not respond to them, and then the O.C. cannot state that you have made a decision, you do not have to inform the FOS at all, it is voluntary response if you wanted to accept.

[MorganaNK]

I would have thought that our letter telling them that they hadn't answered our complaint but invented one of their own was a good enough hint that they could take their "final decision" and whistle dixie!

 

[Old Cogger]

I would have thought that our letter telling them that they hadn't answered our complaint but invented one of their own was a good enough hint that they could take their "final decision" and whistle dixie!

 

inventing one = sounds familiar!

[MorganaNK]

I'm just fecking furious that we have to negotiate all over again... and who's to say they won't start the music again once we have? Is there a complaints procedure for the FOS... I mean; can I complain about them and the decision...

[unclebulgaria67]

No you can't complain about the FOS decision. You can complain to them about their handling of the complaint, but it won't have any affect on the decision. I think you would be wasting your time writing to them.

 

Have you looked at what other complaint you can make about LTSB ? The FOS have looked at one issue, but this is not to say that you cannot find another issue to complain about ? Have you sent an SAR to LTSB to see what other issues you might be able to find ?

[MorganaNK]

Shame, as I really don't see why we should continually have to negotiate a payment plan with one DCA, make a payment only for it to be moved on to another and another and another... They need to man up! I also don't see why the FOS should get away with ruling on a complaint of their creation rather than the one we asked them to look at. Sorry, really really really angry with the FOS and L-TSB right now... red mist descending! :-x

 

And yes, we did SAR them and there is about three tonnes of paperwork to go through.... I do know that with another debt (they have gone quiet on) they couldn't produce the CCA and used the money included with the request as a payment against the account!

[Bazooka Boo]

Are you paying a DCA?

[MorganaNK]

That's the whole problem BB;

 

 

we had an agreement with Wescot but we couldn't pay on the day they wanted.

 

 

We told them this, made a payment and were due to make another when Debt Managers contacted us about the debt,

we wrote to them saying we were confused,

then L-TSB wrote and said DM were now handling it, we complained and L-TSB ignored us,

then Iqor contacted us and now Wescot again..

 

 

. The FOS invented a complaint because they didn't answer the one we raised;

and now we are left no further forward and having to negotiate again..

. and probably again and again and again...

 

I am still so very angry

[citizenB]

Do LTSB still own the account ?

[MorganaNK]

Going by the content of some of the letters... yep

[zydeco]

Just a thought from me. ( having read through the thread )

 

If the fos invented their own version of your complaint then make a new one as if you hadn't made the first one.?

[MorganaNK]

Kind of tried that and they shot us down in flames with their last letter... so infuriating that they can invent a complaint and say tough luck we're done!

[zydeco]

So if that's their final answer and you can't object then surely the dca's are going to do the usual and play pass the parcel.

And at some point you can make a complaint again?

[MorganaNK]

Quite possibly... but I'm a bit "dog with a bone" about this as I feel we're getting shafted from all sides when trying to do the right thing...