Charging a fee for doing other peoples claims?

[trundlecat]

I’ve been very hit & miss on this site lately. 1, because I’m pregnant & have had morning sickness from hell & 2 because every single minute of my spare time seems to be taken up with the barrage of claims I’m doing for other people.

 

I started out offering to help a good friend of mine with her claim & being persuaded by hubby to help a friend of his with theirs. That turned into 5 claims altogether & now I seem to be either doing or being asked to do claims for relatives or friends of friends I don’t even know.

 

We go on holiday next week & I’ve had to skive off work this week (unpaid) to literally get everything in order with all the paperwork before we go away. My phone never seems to stop ringing & every night we have someone or other round wanting this or that letter or N1’s filling in etc etc. I started out just offering advice but now they all just seem to take it for granted I’ll do everything but sign the letters & spend the money. I do say to them “this is how you do it, this is the web address” etc but I get all the whining & moaning about how they can’t possibly do it themselves for whatever reason (& to be honest some of them are pretty daft & really wouldn't be able to do it themselves).

 

Frankly I’m sick to death of it & it’s costing me a fortune in time as well as money for consumables, phone calls etc. It also seems never ending as everyone who calls tells me they know someone else who wants to claim & no way would they be able to do it themselves so they’ve given them my number (gee thanks!).

 

Last night was the final straw. Today I’ve got to drag my 2 little kids about while I go for an antenatal & scan at the hospital & then I’m at the accountants re hubby’s business. On top of all that there’s the usual house work (not a small amount when you’ve got 2 toddlers), cooking, errands & all the while feeling like crap due to being pregnant. Despite that my hubby informed me that his pal had phoned up & he is coming through for his LBA doing & bringing his cousins bank statements with him & they must be done as it’s the only chance he has to get through to ours before we go on holiday. There goes my evening! I was raging & I am planning to be at my friends house with my feet up when he calls round)!

 

So in a nutshell I’m considering charging a fee or a percentage for doing these claims as I have to somehow re-coup my expenses & make people think before jumping on the trundlecat funded gravy train. If they don’t agree with this then they can all s*d off & do their own claims. I have yet to be offered a penny by anyone in view of my expenses & I’m sick of being taken for granted. I spoke to a good friend of mine from this site last night & they agree I’m not profiteering or being mean by asking for a fee but I just wanted to get other people’s take on this? What do you think?

[Number6]

I see nothing wrong with charging a reasonable fee. If it were me I'd be thinking along the lines of any out of pocket expenses (stamps, paper, printer ink, electricity for computer, phone calls, etc) + either 1) a percentage of the successful claim on a sliding scale, say 20% for a small claim reducing to say 5% for a claim above £2000 or b) a reasonable hourly rate (£10?). The problem with b) is that you'd have to log all the hours spent. a) is simpler.

 

But whatever route you take, it's reasonable to charge a fee IMO.

 

Pete

[trundlecat]

Thanks Pete, that's reassured me I'm not being a profiteering, band wagon jumping parasite lol.

 

I've just read my 1st post back & it sounds well stroppy. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy helping people get back what's rightly theirs but I'm just really peeved (& hormonal) about being taken for granted & it enchroaching into my personal time so much.

[notlam]

What's wrong with charging a fee plus expenses? I would. Friends, or not.

 

If your conscience bothers you so much, you can always offer "mates-rates" to those closest to you and normal rates to all the others.

 

If you can cope with it all it sounds like a great little business in the making - providing a service people clearly need.

 

Go for it and good luck with everything!

[Number6]

Thanks Pete, that's reassured me I'm not being a profiteering, band wagon jumping parasite lol.

 

I've just read my 1st post back & it sounds well stroppy. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy helping people get back what's rightly theirs but I'm just really peeved (& hormonal) about being taken for granted & it enchroaching into my personal time so much.

 

Helping people is no reason to be out of pocket! I don't see any problem there.

 

I agree with notlam's comments.

 

Pete

[Number6]

Actually, just to add a small caveat...

 

I have no idea if this is relevant but might you be putting yourself at risk by charging a fee? I'm thinking if for some reason a claim went belly-up, perhaps because you made a small error on the N1, or you forgot to return an AQ on time, or something, I don't know... could you be sued for negligence?

 

I don't know whether this could happen or not, or whether it would even if it could but I just wonder, if you are volunteering your help would that make you less liable than if you were charging on the basis that you are charging for professional services and therefore you would have a greater duty of care...???

 

I've no idea here, just musing. Does anyone have any clearer guidance?

 

Pete

[madmedic112]

100% behind you trundlecat! I ask for £20 for the inital subject access request and 10% of any monies won. Im being paid for my time and costs. My mobile phone bill alone is about £150 pcm! I have also helped countless friends for free and its costing me a packet! Nobody has said im being unfair or greedy.

Good luck with the pregnancy! Buy the baby some new booties!

[gizmo111]

How about charging a fee say % of what they get back plus costs and donating a bit of what you get to site.

[Number6]

But that's still a fee....

 

Anyone any comments on my previous post?

 

Pete

[trundlecat]

Cheers folks.

 

I'm at the accountants this aft Pete & he seems to know everything about anything so I'll ask him what he thinks regarding duty of care, liability etc.

[Michael Browne]

I agree with No6's caveat, although I've no idea of the actual legal position. But it seems to me that it's not so much that you want to start making money out of it as much want the treadmill to stop, but not sure how to say no without seeming churlish. Just say you haven't got the time + the legal flim flam and tell them firmly they've got to come here where they'll get all the help they need.

[Bookworm]

TC, you have a problem.

 

If you start charging, even without making a profit, you are entering a contract, and you are laying yourself wide open to a host of problems you could without, liability and the Inland Revenue being but 2 of them.

 

What happens if one of the banks fights back, your client ends up in court and loses? Because you have charged him, he could turn against you.

 

There's a whole range of legal reasons why you can't charge for this, as for a %fee, that's illegal, full stop.

 

Be firm, tell them the clinic has said that your BP is dangerously high, and that you have been told by the drs you must put your feet up or the baby could be at risk, wich isn't such a stretch anyway. Stop trying to be Wonderwoman and bear your burden in silence and then offloading it here, it's not doing you any good! Time to tell THEM, and if you can't do it straight (sod off, you lazy parasites), do it sly (my health won't allow me to carry on this way, so sorry).

 

As for your husband, I suggest a few firm words in his ear about his priorities here.

 

Go girl. ;-)

[Michael Browne]

Hear, hear, BW

[Number6]

as for a %fee, that's illegal, full stop.

 

Is it? I didn't know that.

 

I'm not gainsaying you BW, I simply didn't know that . Why is it illegal?

 

Pete

[Number6]

.... and would your liability be less if you didn't charge a fee? If so why?

 

So many questions, such little processor time...!!

 

And I should be out shopping by now..! God I hate this site...!!!

 

Pete

[Bookworm]

‘A person is guilty of maintenance if he supports litigation in which he has no legitimate concern without just cause or excuse’ Chitty 28 Ed Vol 1 17 – 050

 

Champerty ‘occurs when the person maintaining another stipulates for a share of the proceeds of the action or suit’ Chitty 28 Ed Vol 1 17 – 054. If these agreements are "contingency" known as "Champerty" (supporting a claim for a share in the damages without being a party to the loss) they're not allowed in English Law.

 

Arkin v Borchard Lands No 2) (2003) WHC 2844 (COMM) (23/LLP4). In this case the success Defendants brought an action against Managers and Processors of Claims Ltd (MPC) under S59 of the Supreme Court Act 1981 seeking recovery of their costs.

 

 

If actual control/interference is established then it is likely that the agreement will be held to be illegal regardless of the needs of access to justice.

 

I suspect that liability is not as much of an issue if no fee has been obtained, although in these days and age, who knows? YOu can get sued for doing a good deed that turns sour, so I couldn't be sure.

[Number6]

‘A person is guilty of maintenance if he supports litigation in which he has no legitimate concern without just cause or excuse’ Chitty 28 Ed Vol 1 17 – 050

 

Champerty ‘occurs when the person maintaining another stipulates for a share of the proceeds of the action or suit’ Chitty 28 Ed Vol 1 17 – 054. If these agreements are "contingency" known as "Champerty" (supporting a claim for a share in the damages without being a party to the loss) they're not allowed in English Law.

 

Arkin v Borchard Lands No 2) (2003) WHC 2844 (COMM) (23/LLP4). In this case the success Defendants brought an action against Managers and Processors of Claims Ltd (MPC) under S59 of the Supreme Court Act 1981 seeking recovery of their costs.

 

 

If actual control/interference is established then it is likely that the agreement will be held to be illegal regardless of the needs of access to justice.

 

I suspect that liability is not as much of an issue if no fee has been obtained, although in these days and age, who knows? YOu can get sued for doing a good deed that turns sour, so I couldn't be sure.

 

I am really confused now!

 

Why would a lay person be guilty of "Maintenance" when a solicitor doing the same thing wouldn't be? And is maintenance "per-se" illegal? If it is illegal then surely anyone offering advice on here is guilty of it???

 

I understand what you say about Champerty but would the same apply to a no win - no fee agreement?

 

I REALLY must go shopping now, back later!!

 

Pete

[Bookworm]

I think (and that is the operative word here!) that the key here would be the contract. A solicitor, as a professional, is entering a contract, which gives him the "just cause or excuse".

 

Champerty & no win/no fee: Yes, in fact, that's how I found out about this (contrary to common belief, I do NOT know everything! ), a no win no fee case that charges you a percentage is illegal, AFAIK.

 

PS: And I see you're still here. ;-)

[PhantomReclaimer]

I agree with bookworm, you are entering a very dangerous area by charging a fee. You could possibly charge merely for the clerical work of actually producing and completing the letters and forms or show that the payment was only to cover actual expenses. But, if what you did amounted to giving legal advice then you would need to be qualified, insured, etc. The onus would be on you to show that anything you did only amounted to clerical work so you would have to keep records and costings of your outgoings - which would be even more stress and work than you are already doing.

 

Personally, I'd go with the s*d off approach. Everything is available here for anyone to read, let them do their own claims.

 

P.

[ozzywizard]

How about you asking each person you help for a reasonable contribution of their choice. Discuss this with them on an individual basis. Just a suggestion that will help with your expenses and should have no come backs.

[Number6]

contrary to common belief, I do NOT know everything!

 

Really??!! You've just burst my bubble there BW!!

 

 

PS: And I see you're still here. ;-)

 

Err, who??

 

Pete

[dave]

Champerty is surely unlawful at common law, rather than illegal, no?

 

It's to stop frivioulous lawsuits.

[Number6]

 

PS: And I see you're still here. ;-)

 

Oh I see, yes, the shopping... done that! No, really I have, just spent nearly £100 and we have food again!!

 

 

Pete

[trundlecat]

I have an answer. I'm going to tell all new people to sod off & charge all ongoing cases £10 an hour for typing.... nothing else, just typing & I'm having a quick contract prepared saying that. That way if they wanna sit in my study gosspiing & taking up my entire evening fine, it's all going towards the hourly rate for the typing I am doing for them which will recoup my expenses & hopefully put folk off trotting round here every evening & sitting drinking my tea til 10pm.

 

Thanks everyone

[Michael Browne]

Good for you!!

 

I'd prefer coffee, 2 sugars please BTW