Vodafone - Default

[silverfox1961]

If VF refuse a deadlock letter or you feel that you have gone as far as you can with VF, I'm sure the Ombudsman will look at it for you. They may ask VF to look at it once more before they get fully involved but they will then be aware of the dispute.

[jayzz]

If VF refuse a deadlock letter or you feel that you have gone as far as you can with VF, I'm sure the Ombudsman will look at it for you. They may ask VF to look at it once more before they get fully involved but they will then be aware of the dispute.

 

Thanks for the info silverfox. I have submitted the complain at ombudsman.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

i got a reply from LEE Guys! Which is very Disappointing. Vodafone only cares about itself. They made a mistake aswell and they don't have the recordings to check. in that case they should have grant the benefit of doubt to the customer! I know Lee tried his best but vodafone always going to be selfish.

 

LEE reply:

 

 

 

 

Someone please help me write a letter to the commissioner!

 

Thanks,

 

Jay

 

Hi Jay,

 

I appreciate that you remain unhappy with the outcome of our investigation.

 

It's never a pleasant situation when we have to deliver news which we know isn't what the customer was hoping for but I can assure you that this matter has been investigated as thoroughly as possible.

Thanks for the info silverfox. I have submitted the complain at ombudsman.

 

Naturally, should the Ombudsman opt to review your case we will co-operate fully with them.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[2Grumpy]

I got confused by the values quoted in this thread as well

 

1. Why did vodaphone increase the contract from £17.50 to £45 for the last 3 months - was this retaliation for not renewing the contract? Would this have been different if jayzz had took their time thinking about this?

 

2. Did vodaphone ever send invoices for the amounts claimed along with explanations?

 

3. why were there additional charges added by the DCA

 

4. Why is the default recorded for £240?

 

Is it me or does this really not add up?

 

It sounds to me as though the DCA was the first that jayzz heard about the bill was the debt collectors & paid immediately ...

[2Grumpy]

Have you done a SAR to find out what Vodaphone really have on your records?

[jayzz]

2Grumpy

Re: Vodafone - Default

 

I got confused by the values quoted in this thread as well

 

1. Why did vodaphone increase the contract from £17.50 to £45 for the last 3 months - was this retaliation for not renewing the contract? Would this have been different if jayzz had took their time thinking about this?

 

2. Did vodaphone ever send invoices for the amounts claimed along with explanations?

 

3. why were there additional charges added by the DCA

 

4. Why is the default recorded for £240?

 

Is it me or does this really not add up?

 

I dont know, Stupid thing I did was I didn't take them seriously.

 

I paid them £100 and I was talking to consumer direct and other help lines for help.

 

Consumer direct mentioned that If I never agreed on the phone for the last 3 months. They shouldn't charge me

 

When I requested for recording they said I had to PAY! but LEE told that vodafone don't keep the recording more than

3 months! Now I had to take the blame for that. I don't have the bills or recording to prove it to them.

 

I still paid including their solicitor FEE (I Guess). Still I get punished! I am with T-Mobile for 21 months now and I paid more than £2000 so far! no late PAYMENTS!!! The only reason I refused to pay was they try to over charge me! even tho I was with them for 3 years!

 

SELFISH, the moment I said I wanna leave vodafone. I was ripped off! with a default!

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

I got confused by the values quoted in this thread as well

 

1. Why did vodaphone increase the contract from £17.50 to £45 for the last 3 months - was this retaliation for not renewing the contract? Would this have been different if jayzz had took their time thinking about this?

 

2. Did vodaphone ever send invoices for the amounts claimed along with explanations?

 

3. why were there additional charges added by the DCA

 

4. Why is the default recorded for £240?

 

Is it me or does this really not add up?

 

It sounds to me as though the DCA was the first that jayzz heard about the bill was the debt collectors & paid immediately ...

 

Hi 2Grumpy,

 

I can assure you, together with anyone else reading this thread, that we wouldn't increase any customer's price plan as a result of them letting us know that they wished to leave us.

 

Each month a bill will either be posted to the customer or if they've registered for online billing an email alert would be sent letting them know that their bill is ready.

 

In instances where is has become necessary to refer an account to a DCA an administration fee is added. This is something which is communicated to the customer in our default notice letter.

I dont know, Stupid thing I did was I didn't take them seriously.

 

I paid them £100 and I was talking to consumer direct and other help lines for help.

 

Consumer direct mentioned that If I never agreed on the phone for the last 3 months. They shouldn't charge me

 

When I requested for recording they said I had to PAY! but LEE told that vodafone don't keep the recording more than

3 months! Now I had to take the blame for that. I don't have the bills or recording to prove it to them.

 

I still paid including their solicitor FEE (I Guess). Still I get punished! I am with T-Mobile for 21 months now and I paid more than £2000 so far! no late PAYMENTS!!! The only reason I refused to pay was they try to over charge me! even tho I was with them for 3 years!

 

SELFISH, the moment I said I wanna leave vodafone. I was ripped off! with a default!

 

Hi jayzz,

 

When we spoke about your case last month I did fully explain our position in regard to the default.

 

Recording a default isn't something which is taken lightly and we would much prefer the customer got in touch with us to discuss their concerns prior to this point so we can manage the situation appropriately with them.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

 

 

 

[2Grumpy]

Hi 2Grumpy,

 

I can assure you, together with anyone else reading this thread, that we wouldn't increase any customer's price plan as a result of them letting us know that they wished to leave us.

 

Each month a bill will either be posted to the customer or if they've registered for online billing an email alert would be sent letting them know that their bill is ready.

 

In instances where is has become necessary to refer an account to a DCA an administration fee is added. This is something which is communicated to the customer in our default notice letter.

 

 

 

So jayzz should check that the last bills were received, what value they were per month excluding usage (£45 or £17.50), that the terms & conditions allow for admin charges to be added & that a default letter was received & what that said

 

This still doesn't sound right

 

If in doubt, SAR & get as much as possible

[silverfox1961]

I would also send a SAR but stipulate that you want ALL account history, not the potted version.

[2Grumpy]

This looks like another instance of Vodaphone using credit files as a debt collection tool. It seems that there was some kind of dispute in existence since the original phone call.

 

Voda will of course say that they can't remove defaults - other threads show that they won't until their legal dept has their minds concentrated by court papers

[silverfox1961]

This looks like another instance of Vodaphone using credit files as a debt collection tool. It seems that there was some kind of dispute in existence since the original phone call.

 

Voda will of course say that they can't remove defaults - other threads show that they won't until their legal dept has their minds concentrated by court papers

 

Absolutely

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?331893-Default-registered-by-Vodaphone-on-account-that-is-not-mine/page3

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

This looks like another instance of Vodaphone using credit files as a debt collection tool. It seems that there was some kind of dispute in existence since the original phone call.

 

Voda will of course say that they can't remove defaults - other threads show that they won't until their legal dept has their minds concentrated by court papers

 

Hi 2Grumpy,

 

Whilst I naturally can't go into specifics here or with any other case which is handled by the Web Relations Team I can confirm that we do give sufficient opportunity to our customers, who fall into arrears, to contact us in order to discuss matters further prior to the account being referred to a DCA and a default being recorded.

 

As can be seen in a number of other threads we have taken action, on a goodwill gesture basis, to remove adverse information from customers' credit files following a thorough review of their situations.

 

However, it's also worth noting that in other cases our investigations have resulted in a negative outcome for the customer. Of course, it isn't nice to have to go back to people to confirm that we're unable to assist them any further but in some instances this is necessary.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

 

[jayzz]

Hi 2Grumpy,

 

Whilst I naturally can't go into specifics here or with any other case which is handled by the Web Relations Team I can confirm that we do give sufficient opportunity to our customers, who fall into arrears, to contact us in order to discuss matters further prior to the account being referred to a DCA and a default being recorded.

 

As can be seen in a number of other threads we have taken action, on a goodwill gesture basis, to remove adverse information from customers' credit files following a thorough review of their situations.

 

However, it's also worth noting that in other cases our investigations have resulted in a negative outcome for the customer. Of course, it isn't nice to have to go back to people to confirm that we're unable to assist them any further but in some instances this is necessary.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

 

 

Lee, Could you tell me why the bill was £240 something and how much you guys charged the last 3 months.

 

could you either send me a PM or drop an email to me.

[2Grumpy]

I would make sure that you have copies of all of the last bills & know how much you were charged & what for ...

 

Was that meant to be £45 per month or £15 pm for 3 months. In any event, they should have provided the option to keep going for the 3 months - or longer. It still wasn't £240

[jayzz]

I would make sure that you have copies of all of the last bills & know how much you were charged & what for ...

 

Was that meant to be £45 per month or £15 pm for 3 months. In any event, they should have provided the option to keep going for the 3 months - or longer. It still wasn't £240

 

I was paying £17.50 and I was on the sim only plan. They asked me to pay £45 for the last 3 months.

 

I never took them seriously so I didn't keep my bills and Now I realise my mistakes! Never trust vodafone!

[2Grumpy]

SAR

 

And don't stop until you know what the £240 was for.

[2Grumpy]

I think that before any supplier takes the steps of registering a default on a person's credit file, given the affect that it has for 6 years, they should at least do the following:

 

Ensure that the address is correct

Ensure that paper bills have been delivered

Ensure that the customer doesn't believe that there is a dispute

Ensure that the customer has seen everything

 

At the end of a contract, where things might go wrong and there might be a small amount left unpaid, mobile phone companies could treat the debt in the same way as any other company and refrain from updating crdit files until they know the reason why. How many times have you considered not paying a bill until either work has been completed satisfactorily or the bill is correct? The use of credit files removes what little power the customer has (the withholding of payment in a dispute) and, in my opinion, reduces companies that use these tactics to no more than bullies.

 

I have read on here that "the companies have a duty to update the records correctly" - I would suggest that there is plenty of examples that show that they are using this "requirement" to use updating the credit file as a debt collection tool. It is possible to conjecture about how this might benefit them.

 

I don't see many threads about mobile phone companies taking their ex-customers to court to recover the amounts owed, just updating credit files.

 

Although some defaults are removed, some more are removed when the court papers drop on their doorstep, which shows how good they believe their systems are and how good their case really is.

 

Anyone who has been sufficiently misguided to send a CCA request to a mobile company knows that there isn't a credit agreement, so why are they updating credit files anyway? Of course if the hardware element was really a purchase using credit (which I have a lot of sympathy with) then there would be a proper credit agreement in place & the mobile companies would have to be registered & play by the rules...

 

I would also like to see some justification for cutting people off AND making them pay to the end of a contract. Yes, I know it's in the terms & conditions, but why? Either let people use their inclusive allowance of calls, texts & data & go after them for what they have used or don't bill them for it. Yet another debt collection tool, but I think that the paying to the end of the contract is really mainly to recover the cost of the phone - see above

 

The Information Commissioner's advice is that defaults for small values where the affect is disproportionate should not be made. Where this conflicts with the supplier's or CRA's policies, surely the ICO should take precedence. Likewise, other organisations should be ignoring these default - but they obviously don't.

 

This could be another example of unfair contract terms and conditions imposed by suppliers - no doubt they all have this in their t&cs.

 

At the very least, there should be warnings on adverts, contracts & web sites explaining that credit files will be updated & the affect of any dispute etc.

 

Perhaps if the updating of credit files by suppliers is to continue there should be an independent arbitration scheme funded by levies on suppliers who use CRAs & CRAs themselves whose decision is binding on the suppliers & CRAs (but allowing customers to still take them to court) who could impose some fairness on this. Their first step might be to automatically remove defaults less than £50 or £100.

 

I should make it clear that I'm not taking a shot at the employees who try their best on this site to get this kind of dispute resolved, but at the companies & their procedures & lack of regulation and the disproportionate amount of harm that they cause by their debt collection procedures.

Edited February 11, 2012 by 2Grumpy

[silverfox1961]

You make a very good point about tarrifs. contract phones have included x amount of minutes, x amount of texts and x amount of internet within the overall price. They incorporate these into the base cost to encourage a person to take out the contract but if itt goes wrong, the customer is liable for the entire contract cost.

This (to me) is unfair. What it should be is the basic cost without the calls, texts and internet included.

 

As an example, Vodafone have the HTC wildife on contract and for £20.50 per month you get:

300 minutes,unlimited texts and 250mb of interweb (not including the 500mb of bt openzone) with a 'free'phone

 

If you take everything down to it's lowest level. We already know that texts actually cost around 1p to send and I would imagine the cheapest call rate is 5p per minute so taking that into account and saying a maximum of 200 texts and totally ignoring the net access, the usage costs £17 per month so the phone costs are £3.50 for 24 months (£84)

 

I suspect mobile phone companies have something within their T's&C's that get around that

[2Grumpy]

I think that there should be a lot more clarity about costs.

 

I see the inclusive minutes etc as part of a package to get you hooked as well as the phone - I doubt very much that most people use all of their allowance on everything that's included, so the actual amount for the phone is probably higher.

 

Another part of the tariff is the charges for additional minutes / texts / MB. These look out of line with what is included in the tariff - maybe that's partly due to the real rate for inclusive minutes is higher because most don't use them all (if you see what I mean)

 

As far as paying for the complete con tract is concerned, that would become clearer if the phone was unbundled & you were only responsible for that & actual usage if you wanted to end the contract. Look at gas / electricity - if you don't pay up, they switch you to pay as you go & recover the debt from the top-up. They don't cut you off & tell you that you have to pay for all of the electricity that you would have used until the end of the year or two. That would also resolve problems due to poor service or no signal - ok you keep on paying for the phone but you could take it to another network without waiting for the contract to end whilst getting no use from it.

[jayzz]

I think that there should be a lot more clarity about costs.

 

I see the inclusive minutes etc as part of a package to get you hooked as well as the phone - I doubt very much that most people use all of their allowance on everything that's included, so the actual amount for the phone is probably higher.

 

Another part of the tariff is the charges for additional minutes / texts / MB. These look out of line with what is included in the tariff - maybe that's partly due to the real rate for inclusive minutes is higher because most don't use them all (if you see what I mean)

 

As far as paying for the complete con tract is concerned, that would become clearer if the phone was unbundled & you were only responsible for that & actual usage if you wanted to end the contract. Look at gas / electricity - if you don't pay up, they switch you to pay as you go & recover the debt from the top-up. They don't cut you off & tell you that you have to pay for all of the electricity that you would have used until the end of the year or two. That would also resolve problems due to poor service or no signal - ok you keep on paying for the phone but you could take it to another network without waiting for the contract to end whilst getting no use from it.

 

Guys, I will be even happy if they marked it as a late payment but 6 years is not FAIR! even a convict will get a chance to explain to himself. I just started my company 6 months back and now I am literally stuck! I got no finance and banks are refused to give me loan because of this default. My company is number 1 on google!!! and I am still struggling because we don't have the infrastructure! I haven't had any late payments for more than an year and I settled all my credit cards!

 

Because of Vodafone's Default!, I end up taking numerous payday loan and put my self into more problems!

 

I paid the money!!!! and I been with you guys for 3 years and took my money all this time. When I decided to leave, they turned the back on me!

[2Grumpy]

Guys, I will be even happy if they marked it as a late payment but 6 years is not FAIR! even a convict will get a chance to explain to himself. I just started my company 6 months back and now I am literally stuck! I got no finance and banks are refused to give me loan because of this default. My company is number 1 on google!!! and I am still struggling because we don't have the infrastructure! I haven't had any late payments for more than an year and I settled all my credit cards!

 

Because of Vodafone's Default!, I end up taking numerous payday loan and put my self into more problems!

 

I paid the money!!!! and I been with you guys for 3 years and took my money all this time. When I decided to leave, they turned the back on me!

 

Do you have proof that it is just the Vodaphone default that is stopping you from getting loans?

 

n.b. Using your credit cards should be cheaper than payday loans

[jayzz]

Do you have proof that it is just the Vodaphone default that is stopping you from getting loans?

 

n.b. Using your credit cards should be cheaper than payday loans

 

Whenever I call banks for over-draft or loans they asking me to check my credit score. I paid all my credit card off before I started my company. I canceled all of them. I just got 1 credit card from HSBC.

 

Credit card companies rejecting my application (Credit check FAILED).

 

I calculated how much payday I got and I got payday worth £6k! :(

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Lee, Could you tell me why the bill was £240 something and how much you guys charged the last 3 months.

 

could you either send me a PM or drop an email to me.

 

Hi jayzz,

 

I'll arrange for you to receive copies of the bills which comprised the final balance you paid.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[jayzz]

Hi there,

 

I still haven't received any documents from vodafone.

 

Could you please look into that.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi jayzz,

 

Thanks for coming back to me.

 

I'll get this followed up and get back to you as soon as I can.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK