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    • do you ultimately want to keep the car?
    • Thank you!    It was bought on my debit card    
    • Hi. Welcome to CAG. How was the car purchased?  
    • Absolutely for the agreement they are referring to.... puts them on notice that this is going to be a uphill fight.   Andy 
    • Particular's of claim for reference only 1. the claim is for the sum of £6163.61due by the defendant under an agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 for hsbc uk bank plc. Account (16 digits) 2. The defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a default notice was served under s 87(1)  of the consumer credit act 1974 which as not been compiled with. 3. The debt was legally assigned to the Claimant on 23/08/23, notice on which as been given to the defendant.  4. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the county courts act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue of these proceedings in the sum of £117.53 the Claimant claims the sum of £6281.14. Suggested defence 1. The Defendant contends the particulars of the claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.3 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. The claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre action protocol) failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st of October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant 7.1 PAPDC. 3. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification. 4. Paragraph 2 is denied. I have not been served with a default notice pursuant to the consumer credit act 1974. 5. Paragraph 3 is denied. i am unaware of any legal assignment or notice of assignment. A copy of assignment was sent by Overdales solicitors when acknowledgement of receipt of CPR request was received, but this was not the original.   6. Paragraph 4 is denied. Neither the original creditor or the assignee have served notice pursuant to sec86c of the Credit Consumer Act 1974 Notice of Sums in Arrears and therefore prevented from charging interest on debt regulated by the CCA1974. 7. The defendant submitted a request for a copy of the alleged agreement pursuant to s78 CCA 1974. The claimant has acknowledged receipt of request but has failed to comply. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence of balance or Default Notice requested by CPR 31.14 8. It is therefore denied with regards to defendant owing any monies to the claimant. therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to:  a.  Show how the defendant has entered into an agreement with HSBC. b.  Show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a Default notice pursuant to section 87 (1) CCA 1974. c.  Show and quantify how the defendant has reached the amount claimed for. d.  Show how the claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity  to issue a claim. 8.  As per civil procedure rule 16.5 (4) it is expected claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 9.  Until such time the claimant can comply to a section 78 request he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.     .
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HSBC v Pipster - Court Tomorrow!! *****Discontinued*****


Pipster2797
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Well done Pipster, I am really pleased for you..

 

and a:clap2: for DB :)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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I don't have a beef with HSBC but still, I'm subbing to this thread as the sheer spunk, guts, strength and wonderful advice given by the more knowledgeable CAG crew give this old Coffee gal mucho strength, spunk and gutso in return to continue fighting her fight with these "establishments"! :nod:

 

Enjoy time with your boy and your 1 or 2 pints - you've earned them! :biggrin1:

 

Best,

 

Coffee

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The point is quite simply that Pipster signed nothing – the card was arranged over the telephone.

 

Their argument is that, as their systems are wholly reliable, the likelihood is that he WOULD have signed a contract.

 

Our simple counter argument is that if their systems are so reliable, how come they don’t have a copy of the contract he signed?

 

They can’t rely on the efficiency of their systems, then deny that efficiency in the same breath, simply to suit their case.

 

The judge said as much in the Harrison v Link Financial case – Link produced an MBNA employee who swore that certain things must have happened because that’s how things were done. Luckily, Mr Harrison had proof to the contrary. Too often the judiciary believe these well-meaning fibbers – oh it’s a bank, they must do things properly. Well, no, they do not.

 

There is no signed document with Pipster’s scrawl. Never has been.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

Had a few hours chill time with my little boy before bed. Going to enjoy a couple of beers now :-D

 

I can still remember the call well as I hadn't long moved into my first place and was about £400 overdrawn but had a good history with my bank account, looking back they advised me to get the credit card and me not fully understanding credit at the time and at an age of 23 thought this sounded great, got rid of my overdraft I was being charged a fortune for each month. She ran through the CCA over the phone and I got the card through the door. Was quite shocked it was so easy. I know I didn't sign anything

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Morning Everyone!! :-)

 

Our visitor is back this morning and still reading. :violin:

 

Well enjoyed a few beers last night but have a bit of bad head this morning. Don't often get to enjoy a few beers with having a little one that wants to be up at anywhere from 6am.

 

Well I do feel more confident about this today and looking forward to hearing from HSBC and DG solicitors now and what their next move will be. I think that because basically the judge said 30 minutes would not be enough time and then gave it 2 hours they will press on exactly the same. One good thing now and something that has swung in my favour is that they can't play dirty like they have done by sending the WS on the day of the hearing. They have been ordered for the skelly to be in first and served to me and the court and then for mine to be put in. So I feel allot more confident because of this.

 

Its mad from HSBC though. All they had to do was release details in the first place and had my charges been refunded we wouldn't of been in this situation. The account would be paid back.

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The good thing is they can now ONLY produce a skeleton argument – no more witness statements. If they try, complain.

 

They have admitted they cannot produce a DN and you have cast doubt on the validity of any DN they might have produced.

 

They have only an improperly reconstructed agreement under s 78, which is useless under s 127. From your WS, they also know that you never actually signed an agreement. Let’s see them get over that one.

 

They have insurmountable hurdles to overcome now, IMO. They would be better off contacting you to try and settle.

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still 2 guests watching :lol:

 

I hope they do make the first move of trying to settle.Even though they have admitted they don't have a CCA and because of this have no right to collect the money it isn't my intention to not repay what I owe (the correct amount), however it will be on my terms because of the bullying and underhand tactics!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just give an update.

 

Court order came through today.

 

HSBC to file their skeleton arguement by 22nd Dec (Thursday)

 

Mine to be file 5th Jan.

 

Case for strikeout to be heard on 12th Jan under a 2 hour hearing!!

 

So I know HSBC will be aware it is soon for the skelly arguement to be in but the order has only landed today. Lets see if they file it by Thursday. What happens if they don't file it?

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Pipster, if they dont file.. they will probably be given some more time :(

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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That would be pretty bad if they were given more time.

 

DonkeyB - With regards to a WP letter, I'm not sure what would be best. See this out or offer them to withdraw and each side bears own costs. If I'm honest if I sent a WP letter offering that what would be the best angle to cover in the letter? The fact that they don't have a CCA or proof the default notice was sent etc? Or a different angle?

 

I'd be happy for this to be over and would accept their offer if they were to make one of bearing own costs and discontinue the case.

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Update

 

well hsbcs skelly argument has to be filed today and Ive just had my post. Guess what? Yep nothing in the post from DG Sols for me.

 

Gonna ring the court later on and see if they have filed anything with them. My reckoning is they will say they sent me it but because of christmas post etc it isnt their fault. I feel it will all just be stalling tactics from them to delay me getting a copy and delay me getting my skelly argument sorted.

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Well thought I'd ring the court because if they had filed the skeleton arguement I could go get a copy today and start work on it. The court said nothing had been recieved and went away and checked the work to be done list and again nothing from them. She said they have got until close of business today to get it filed so it could still come in today. I have to ring back tomorrow lunch time to see if anything has been filed.

 

I asked what happens if they don't file because the order is made out that I have to file and serve a skeleton arguement in response on the issue of enforceability under s127 by 5th Jan 2012. I can't file that because I cant respond to their skeleton arguement. The clerk said they wont chase them for it and I will have to write a letter in and they will place it before the district judge.

 

Dunno if it it is stalling tactics by HSBC or are they going to not bother with summary judgement now and keep the case as stayed?

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Pipster

 

Typical behaviour fromHSBC/DGs I'm afraid. But if you keep at it, you will succed. I did and after nearly 3 years, they backed down 2 days before the full trial before a proper judge. They didn't have much option, no CCA, wrong T&Cs filed and no DN. Sound familiar.

 

You may get the skelly some time in the New Year. In the meantime I suggest you try to draft your own skelly.

 

Cheers

 

Doc

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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I cant really do my own skelly as the order states I have to file and serve a skelly in response to theirs. If I put a skelly in without having their skelly it won't be in response so my reading of it is that until I receive their skelly I cant do anything.

 

I'll wait until tomorrow lunchtime and if it hasn't been filed I will then write to the court.

 

Who knows HSBC may just have given up and decided to not spend any more time on the case and just not bother to send anything into the court. I should be so lucky though.

 

My other option is to ring DG and ask where it is!! Think I will hold off and see if it comes into the court tomorrow.

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