Cap1 & CCA return

[Guest dvdriley]

thanks, they really try on it on dont they.

[Guest dvdriley]

should I stay on this thread now to report my progress to date and request any help

[Chalkitup]

should I stay on this thread now to report my progress to date and request any help

 

 

Hello dvdriley,

 

Best to start your own thread as otherwise your posts may get overlooked on here.

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[jax007]

HOWEVER if it can be proved that the agreement was unenforceable and improperly executed and had been from day 1 then their right to add interest does not exist. any interest paid was paid in mistake and might be able to be claimed back.... this is the path that I am following.......slowly. In want to get all my facts 100% perfect first. I am in the process of testing the water at the moment and will be proceeding (carefully) shortly

 

Dave

 

Thanks Dave

 

This is what I was referring to (even if I hadn't got it quite right). Would be interested to hear the outcome of your own venture here and perhaps we can then all follow in your footsteps!!

 

Am also trying to get confirmation on whether there MUST be an example of loan amount and repayments and total interest on a Credit Card Agreement and can't seem to get any replies on this. Again I have read (in the Act I think) that with credit cards (or I assume running credit) the amount of £1500 MUST be used as the example. Can you confirm this please?

 

I have a number of agreements and this term is missing so I need to know if it's enforceable without it.

 

Ta again

jax

[Guest dvdriley]

does the 12+30 letter rule still apply. I heard it is now 12 + 2 then you can stop paying as the banks/ credit cards are then committing an offence

[foolishgirl]

The 30 day 'offence' no longer applies. It was removed as part of the CPUTR 2008.

Edited August 12, 2008 by foolishgirl
spelling

[Guest dvdriley]

part of the CPUTR 2008?

 

What does that stand for, how can I quote that to Mint

[Chalkitup]

part of the CPUTR 2008?

 

What does that stand for, how can I quote that to Mint

 

 

Hello,

 

The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

 

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[foolishgirl]

How were you going to use it with Mint dvd? The legislation it looks as though you're intending to use re. CCAs still comes under the CCA1974, the CPUTR2008 just amends a bit of it. You may interested in Babybears thread on CPTUR before you start quoting it to OCs, DCAs & it contains a lot of useful info.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/147392-cca-dcas-unfair-commercial.html

[1littleduck]

Hi all,

I started reading this thred from page 1, and was horrified to find I had another 500 odd pages to read, so I am attempting to cut it short..

The Terminator had an issue going about the cc companies not supplying terms and conditions with new and replacement cards, and making the cc companies in breach of the agreement. Does anyone know the outcome of this, or is the terminator still looking into it.

[MAGDA]

Hi, I know that if a DCA is harrassing us, or they haven't complied with a request for a copy of the agreement, but are still continuing to aggressively pursue the debt, then we are often advised to complain to TS,FOS or Trading standards. I complained to Consumer Direct about a certain company as they had not provided a copy of my agreement (although they claim that they have) and they are threatening court action, as I have ceased payments until they comply with my request for the agreement. Consumer Direct appear to pass any complaint onto the local TS and they are then supposed to investigate on your behalf. However, although my local TS did contact me, they did absolutely zilch, as they claimed they were just too busy, and hadn't had time to start the enquiry. I then complained to the DCA's loca TS. It has now been five weeks and TS claim they have not received any response at all from the Dca, in other words, the DCA has totally ignored my emails (originally sent to TS and subsequently forward by TS to the DCA) asking for a response. I spoke to TS yesterday, and the person stated that although with some companies they have jurisdiction to ensure the company comply with certain procedures, with this company, although it is local to the TS concerned, they do not, because the company's head office is in London, and unless the company has committed a criminal offence, there is probably very little TS can do if the company choose not to respond. This sounds as though for some reason TS don't want to get involved, which surely can't be right. The DCA are laughing I would imagine, as they appear to be above even TS. Is this the norm with TS, and what kind of powers do they actually have? I would appreciate any comments. Thanks, Magda

Edited August 14, 2008 by MAGDA
typos

[foolishgirl]

Magda, this has been my experience in the past too. However now TS HAVE to act - they are the enforecment arm of the OFT under the new CPUTR 2008 & if you're not getting anywhere with them I suggest you read Babybears thread & then complain quoting the above Regs & also OFT guidance on implementation:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/147392-cca-dcas-unfair-commercial.html

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/530162/oft931int.pdf

[citizenB]

Magda, if you do a search for BabyBear's thread on The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 you will discover that Trading Standards now have more power to investigate claims made to them. These are now not just guidelines but law.

[MAGDA]

thanks CB, will have a look. I think TS are sometimes reluctant to do anything as the company concerned may employ at lot of people in that area, so the companies concerned continue to get away with things, Many thanks, Magda

[MAGDA]

Magda, this has been my experience in the past too. However now TS HAVE to act - they are the enforecment arm of the OFT under the new CPUTR 2008 & if you're not getting anywhere with them I suggest you read Babybears thread & then complain quoting the above Regs & also OFT guidance on implementation:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/147392-cca-dcas-unfair-commercial.html

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/530162/oft931int.pdf

 

Hi foolishgirl, sorry didn't see your reply before. Thanks for this, it's like banging your head against a wall sometimes with these people isn't it? Many thanks, magda

[Guest dvdriley]

Help...... BANK OF SCOTLAND 12 + 2 is up , infact it was up on 3 days ago. No response to my cca request, they are still demanding payment, regular telephone calls and letters. Which letter should I now send, bearing in mind the 30 day rule is gone. If no letter needed what do I now do.

[Jeff2000]

Help...... BANK OF SCOTLAND 12 + 2 is up , infact it was up on 3 days ago. No response to my cca request, they are still demanding payment, regular telephone calls and letters. Which letter should I now send, bearing in mind the 30 day rule is gone. If no letter needed what do I now do.

 

 

 

 

Hello dvdriley,

 

 

First off, can I suggest that you start a thread for your case in the relevant forum. If you already have a thread, can you post up a link for it.

 

In the meantime you can send this:

 

 

I refer to my letters dated xxxxxxxx 2007 which was delivered via recorded delivery to your offices on xxxxxxxxx 2007, and my follow up letter dated xxxxxxxxx 2007.

 

In my letter of xxxxxxx I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, fully executed credit agreement for the above numbered xxxxxxxx account under section 77(1) and section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act. In addition a statement of my account should have been sent along with any other document mentioned in the credit agreement.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, Your Company commit an offence. These time limits expired on xxxxxxxx 2007 and xxxxxxxx 2007 respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) —

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

Therefore as at xxxxxxx 2007 this account became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities.

 

In addition it is also my intention to notify CCCS that this account is no longer enforceable and that payments to it should cease immediately. Any default notices or adverse comments your company have recorded on my credit reference file should be immediately removed.

Additionally any monies I may have paid to your company should be returned to me forthwith.

 

Failure to respond favourably to this letter within seven (7) days of receipt will result in immediate litigation being commenced against your company without further notice.

I await your rapid response.

Yours faithfully

 

 

Just alter it to suit your case!

 

 

 

Also send them a telephone harassment letter:

 

 

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls.

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. Not to mention the distress and alarm this is causing me and my family.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Wireless Telegraphy Act (1949) and I will report you to both Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Next time they call, tell them that you require everything in writing and hang up!!! And from now on, never speak to them, or any other company about this case. Simply refuse to answer their security questions and hang up! You require all correspondence in writing!

Unfortunately, Bank of Scotland and their mates, Blair, Oliver & Scott will completely ignore your CCA request and any letters that you subsequently write. Your alleged debt will be passed from DCA to DCA. You will continue to receive threatening letters etc.

When this happens you must complain to Trading Standards and the OFT etc.

Best wishes, Jeff.

Edited August 15, 2008 by Jeff2000

[jax007]

I have asked this question a number of times but no getting a reply ... think it may have been missed amongst the rest of the text!

 

A CCA is unenforceable if any of the prescribed terms is missing. One of those prescribed terms is 'an example' of how much the loan will cost you over a specified period (a year I think ... maybe wrong here??).

 

With credit cards the amount of the loadn is not specific and so, as I understand it, an 'example' has to be used. I believe this is £1500 showing the interest rate and the amount this would cost by the end of the term.

 

Am I correct in thinking that without the 'example', one of the prescribed terms is missing and that the agreement is unenforceable.

 

Many thanx

jax

[Peterbard]

I have asked this question a number of times but no getting a reply ... think it may have been missed amongst the rest of the text!

 

A CCA is unenforceable if any of the prescribed terms is missing. One of those prescribed terms is 'an example' of how much the loan will cost you over a specified period (a year I think ... maybe wrong here??).

 

With credit cards the amount of the loadn is not specific and so, as I understand it, an 'example' has to be used. I believe this is £1500 showing the interest rate and the amount this would cost by the end of the term.

 

Am I correct in thinking that without the 'example', one of the prescribed terms is missing and that the agreement is unenforceable.

 

Many thanx

jax

 

Hi

 

On a running account agreememnt it is not possible to calculate the APR in accordance with the regulations (Total charge for Credit).

 

This is because the total repayment time is not fixed and the total charge for credit can not always be calculated.

 

In order to give a figure for APR which can be used as a yardstick for comparison with other products the regulations (SI 1982/1553 section14 on agreemants before 04/07) use assumed figures for the amount of credit and repayments these can be found in the regulations.(sched 1) or in the total charge for credit regulations,

 

The figure for APR is not a prescribed term, nor is he appearance of these calculations althought they are required to be on the agreement.

 

If they are missing then it would be upto a court to decide whether there omission was serious renough to interfere with the decision making process of the debtor when purchasing the loan but it would not make the unenforceability of the agreement automatic .

 

THe assumptions used for the calculations are altered in agreements after 05/07 and are quantified within the 1482 agreement regulations.

 

Regards

Peter

[Hopeful1]

Hi Peter

 

I've been ushered along here to canvass your opinion on my credit agreement from HFC.

 

They are taking me to court. I have until tomorrow to agree to a settlement figure plus voluntary charging order or until Friday to submit an amended defence plus witness statements etc.

 

I am looking for anything i can use to defend as at the moment i have nothing! I feel they are being very underhand with the charging order, but i may not have much choice.

 

I am querying the type of agreement it is as some of the loan was used to pay off other creditors and some was given to me to use as i wished.

 

I am querying whether the PPI and interest has been included properly in the agreement.

 

I have received some info from HFC about the loan and PPI at the weekend. It shows all the things they've done to approve it all eg used some of loan to pay other creditors, checked income / excpenditure BUT the sheet about other insurances is blank. As i work for the local authority there is good sick pay etc but they never asked. I have stated in negotiations this was mis-sold as there was no discussion about alternative cover.

 

Anyway the link is here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131502-weightmans-hfc-county-court-17.html#post1662151

 

I am very much aware you are greatly in demand, so will understand if you don't have chance to view this.

 

If you do, it will be very much appreciated!

 

Best wishes

[jax007]

Thank you Peter

 

I think you are saying that if the 'example' is not shown, it does not make the agreement automatically unenforceable and it is down to the court's discretion whether or not it renders it so(??)

 

May I post the agreement on here for you to vet for me please?

 

jax

Edited August 19, 2008 by jax007
remove personal information

[citizenB]

Could someone please pop along to Aspirante's thread and check out the agreement/application form that has been sent to him. Many thanks.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/145824-court-claim-lloyds-tsb.html#post1664773

[Peterbard]

Thank you Peter

 

I think you are saying that if the 'example' is not shown, it does not make the agreement automatically unenforceable and it is down to the court's discretion whether or not it renders it so(??)

 

May I post the agreement on here for you to vet for me please?

 

jax

 

Hi

Yes the court also has other options and may decide to ammend the terms of the agreement if they feel you have been unfaily treated and were not given the correct information pre-contractualy(127)6

 

It might be a good idea to edit your post and cover the agreememnt number.

 

Best regards

Petr

Edited August 19, 2008 by Dodgeball
ps

[jax007]

Thank you Peter

 

I have removed document but don't have the means just now to rescan.

 

Yes the court also has other options and may decide to ammend the terms of the agreement if they feel you have been unfaily treated and were not given the correct information pre-contractualy(127)6

 

In your opinion, would you say that this particular agreement is enforceable or not? Either way, could you give me the reason please?

 

If you consider it unenforceable, would you just let them know they have what is deemed an unenforceable agreement and then let them do the chasing?

 

Regards

Jax

[lookinforinfo]

Hopeful, the case Noomillo was referring to was -http://www.creditlaw.co.uk/Cases/meadows.htm

where you should find the very full explanation of how to work out whether the PPI has been added in the right column and just how difficult it is to

fathom some of the legislation within the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Edited August 21, 2008 by lookinforinfo