Cap1 & CCA return

[Jeff2000]

Don't. Just keep the card as it is, attached to the flyer, as it will prove their non-compliane with section 85.

 

 

Hi,

 

I've kept everything that came inside the envelope!

 

 

Jeff.

[patrickq1]

well thats another arguement for you uni WHAT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE INTERNET OR A COMPUTOR ??? they must send the contract to you for your appraisal

patrickq1

[un1boy]

well thats another arguement for you uni WHAT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE INTERNET OR A COMPUTOR ??? they must send the contract to you for your appraisal

patrickq1

 

My thoughts exactly - I tell you what, I'll start a thread about this Egg thing and post everything so that everyone can see, what you reckon?

[patrickq1]

good idea uni it should and i think more likely comes under the unfair contracts i ahve something else i have found but beleive it or not i cant remember what the hell it is lol

but will remember in my sleep as usual it will wake me up then i can write it down

patrickq1

[blencathra]

I got an interesting one for you. A request has been made to Robinson Way for a signed copy of a credit agreement. They write back to say that they have requested a copy of the same plus a default notice also from Capital One. and they say that they are the clients although there is written proof that Robinson Way have actually bought the debt so they own it now. They are using the 1925 Act of Parliament Protection of Property section 136 Assignment of things in action and collection of debts mmmm thats a new angle on things I would appreciate any info on this, I believe that if they cannot provide the signed copy they cannot enforce the debt and i don't see how a 1925 Act of Parliament has preference over the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Best wishes Dave

[car2403]

Spiritgirl could really use some more expert advice on her CCA - can you pop in and take a look and see if there's anything else you can add to my interpretation of its enforceability?;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/81224-spiritgirl-various-dcas-31.html#post1368282

[patrickq1]

Assignment of rights of action

[patrickq1]

does it relate to this ?

The Law of Assignment - Blackwell Online

[andrew1]

I got an interesting one for you. A request has been made to Robinson Way for a signed copy of a credit agreement. They write back to say that they have requested a copy of the same plus a default notice also from Capital One. and they say that they are the clients although there is written proof that Robinson Way have actually bought the debt so they own it now. They are using the 1925 Act of Parliament Protection of Property section 136 Assignment of things in action and collection of debts mmmm thats a new angle on things I would appreciate any info on this, I believe that if they cannot provide the signed copy they cannot enforce the debt and i don't see how a 1925 Act of Parliament has preference over the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Best wishes Dave

 

Take a look over the Cabot threads. This is an old Cabot trick which the Cabot Fan Club kicked into touch. They cannot rely upon the LOP Act. Period!

[elizabeth1]

Take a look over the Cabot threads. This is an old Cabot trick which the Cabot Fan Club kicked into touch. They cannot rely upon the LOP Act. Period!

 

 

Perhaps they just testing to see if we forgotten this one? You know the old saying "if at first you don't succeed .... " :lol:

[BigBadCAGBagger]

well thats another arguement for you uni WHAT IF YOU DO NOT HAVE INTERNET OR A COMPUTOR ??? they must send the contract to you for your appraisal

patrickq1

 

You can't apply for the card then. Isn't that a chicken and egg question?

[BigBadCAGBagger]

So If this went to Court

A- Would it be thrown out for been unreadable?

 

That would depend on how persuasive you are with the judge and how clued up their counsel is.

 

B- If they brought the film with them would a judge exept it.?

 

They would not need to bring the film in, they would bring a copy like the one they provided to you and swear it is a true copy and the judge would then accept it. Why do you think they would need to bring the film in?

 

HAK

 

Just a couple of thoughts.....

[patrickq1]

gggrrrr :o

[tomterm8]

A- Would it be thrown out for been unreadable?

 

That would depend on how persuasive you are with the judge and how clued up their counsel is.

 

 

Actually, it really depends on knowing the right part of the regs to quote. if you quote the right ones, then however clued up their councel is, they are screwed. The CCA 1974 is REALLY clear, both copies of consumer credit agreeement and the original agreement MUST be easily legible.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

They would not need to bring the film in, they would bring a copy like the one they provided to you and swear it is a true copy and the judge would then accept it. Why do you think they would need to bring the film in?

 

I thought they could not possibley bring the copy in to Court as it is crap!!

 

As far as the CCA request they are still in default so I can see another letter heading there way.

 

HAK

[BigBadCAGBagger]

I know of at least one case where an agreement copy such as this was deemed to be enforceable. I believe that point will be up to the judge. The counsel on the other side lifted the piece of paper to their nose and read out the terms quoted as being unreadable and the judge accepted that, even though parts were not legible, as a whole it wasn't illegible and therefore allowed enforcement.

 

I wasn't stating a fact, merely pointing out that legibility is objective and that you will need to close down any points made by the other side with regards to legibility. Also, if you intend to quote the guidance from the OFT with regards to legibility, you would also have to counter an arguement with regards to when those guidelines were produced and therefore any predating agreements would not necessarily have to comply. I'm not saying I support that view either, it would appear to me that the agreement in question is indeed illegible, I am merely pointing out the counter attack by the opposition so it isn't a shock to anyone

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Quick Question

 

If somebody issues a default notice can you request the notice to view. Can you get it removed if they can not find the default notice they sent.

 

HAK

[car2403]

Quick Question

 

If somebody issues a default notice can you request the notice to view. Can you get it removed if they can not find the default notice they sent.

 

HAK

 

IMHO, to prove that they've complied with the Act, they should be able to provide a copy of the original signed and certified Default Notice - just as they should do with copy agreements.

 

If they can't, how can they prove they complied with the Act? That would leave them open to litigation.

[davefirewalker]

IMHO, to prove that they've complied with the Act, they should be able to provide a copy of the original signed and certified Default Notice - just as they should do with copy agreements.

 

If they can't, how can they prove they complied with the Act? That would leave them open to litigation.

 

But like in paul waltons case they might just "recreate" them from historical data.... ( Shouldnt be allowed, but probably is )

 

Dave

[patrickq1]

i think i read on one of bankfodders threads a simple phone call as the banks have direct access to all data within the CRAs data base

patrickq1

[duncan_disorderly]

My elderly parents are in need of some advice on how to handle their debt situation.

 

After sending a CCA request, they have been sent this unreadable copy of what I think is just an application form:

 

Application Form

 

They also received 2 sets of T&C's titled "Credit Card Agreement Regulated By The Consumer Credit Act 1974."

 

I have started a new thread here where the copies of the T&C's are also linked from.

 

I don't think this agreement is properly executed and therefore unenforceable, but I would be grateful for some expert opinion as my parents are both elderly and in ill health.

 

The full story of how this came about and links to the other documents are in the new thread here. I would appreciate any resident experts taking a look and offering advice.

[rory32]

I have replied on your thread duncan disorderly.

[B3rty]

I am just poping into this thread to ask for any extra info on DCA's adding costs/charges, I have found CCA s.93 and OFT guidlines and just wondered if anyone had more reference material they could point me to

 

Mythread is here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/130231-berty-needs-help-re.html#post1371298

[Having_A_Knightmare]

This is a classic you could not write it!!

 

Did the Section 78(1) request and got back this:

 

 

 

I worte to them about the copy been crap under the copy docs 1983 etc...

 

Got back this....

 

 

Its not unreaonable to expect a deteriotion to the filming:D

Any Comments

 

HAK

 

Follow Up Letter going to send::

 

 

I am writing regarding your letter dated xxxxx 2008.

The law is very clear about a section 78(1) request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. When a debtor requests a copy of the credit agreement, the creditor must send this information within the specific timescales and of a readable nature. This is mentioned in Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 section 2(1). If the creditor does not comply with the act of parliament, the account after twelve days is put in default and cannot be enforced in a Court of law. If after thirty more days, the Creditor is committing an offence.

Nowhere in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does it mention that “it is not unreasonable to expect that there will be some slight deterioration to the filming”. In fact the act is very clear that a true copy must be sent on a section 78(1) request. This is a copy of the original signed agreement and not a film.

As you cannot produce me with a readable copy of the credit agreement and have admitted so in your last letter, this account will always be in default and always be unenforceable in a Court of law. Therefore I do not acknowledge any debt from your company, as there is no documented evidence to link me with the account.

If you still insist on enforcing this account, it will be reported to Trading Standards who will start criminal proceedings against Barclaycard for breaching an Act of Parliament.

Please treat this letter as an official complaint to enable me to report my findings to the FOS.

[davefirewalker]

Follow Up Letter going to send::

 

 

I am writing regarding your letter dated xxxxx 2008.

The law is very clear about a section 78(1) request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. When a debtor requests a copy of the credit agreement, the creditor must send this information within the specific timescales and of a readable nature. This is mentioned in Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 section 2(1). If the creditor does not comply with the act of parliament, the account after twelve days is put in default and cannot be enforced in a Court of law. If after thirty more days, the Creditor is committing an offence.

Nowhere in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does it mention that “it is not unreasonable to expect that there will be some slight deterioration to the filming”. In fact the act is very clear that a true copy must be sent on a section 78(1) request. This is a copy of the original signed agreement and not a film.

As you cannot produce me with a readable copy of the credit agreement and have admitted so in your last letter, this account will always be in default and always be unenforceable in a Court of law. Therefore I do not acknowledge any debt from your company, as there is no documented evidence to link me with the account.

If you still insist on enforcing this account, it will be reported to Trading Standards who will start criminal proceedings against Barclaycard for breaching an Act of Parliament.

Please treat this letter as an official complaint to enable me to report my findings to the FOS.

 

Nice letter....but I get a gut feeling that you are treading on VERY thin ice.....

 

the only real way of walking away from an agreement is if there is something SUBSTANTIALY wrong with it....I agree that the doc is illegible...from what i can see anyway, and that being so I cant see any of the prescribed terms...although there seems to be some sort of interest thing going on.

 

Its a 50/50 call with a judge though...just hope you dont get one like Paul Walton.

 

 

rgds

Dave