Cap1 & CCA return

[tamadus]

Awww shucks..

I tried

Thanks!

 

Ok I've got a question please...

 

Just drafting up a letter to Crap one, after supplying (after the 2nd request) a copy of the original application form - see post 6366 and 6367.

This account is closed, paid up, finished. Still on the CRA files, with a default due to ppi insurance company being late with payments for 6 months on the trot.

I've got approx £1500 in charges, default was lodged 5 months or so before it was paid off, Still haven't got complete S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) records from CAP1.

Would you reccommend another letter chasing the original CCA, whilst chasing up the SAR and stating I'll be looking for the default removed?

Effectively, I've got nothing to lose by chasing them all the way, everything to gain.

 

Any comments grateful.

 

thanks, and cheers Dave!

 

Perseus

 

forget sending any more letters Pers.

 

Once an account is settled and closed they have no obligation to provide copies ot the agreement under sections 77/78 or 85

 

Your best line is to do an SAR and see what it throws up.

[tamadus]

Re: Consumer Credit Act Agreements

Quote:

Originally Posted by the main man

Thanks for having a look,

Was really surprised at the fast response to the CCA (3 days!)do they have to send the applicable T&C for the year it was taken out?

 

Not just the ones from that year - they have to send the ACTUAL T&C's that were attached to the agreement you signed AT THE TIME.....

 

I was only asking because surely to make a valid agreement T&C should be part of an agreement? actually on the docs! Sorry not really familiar with CCA

 

T&C must be those applicable at the time the agreement was made and signed. newer versions are not sufficient owing to the variation clauses. Basically you 'agreed' to T&C on a certain date and only the T&C at that time allow for future variations.

 

Without the original T&C (which form a major part of the contract) they have no right of variation in future T&C.

[ian1969uk]

See here

 

A judge has awarded an enforcement order despite the fact that the DCA could not produce a credit agreement.

 

Surely this isn't right, S127 should mean this is not allowed?

 

Any thoughts?

[zubo]

See here

 

A judge has awarded an enforcement order despite the fact that the DCA could not produce a credit agreement.

 

Surely this isn't right, S127 should mean this is not allowed?

 

Any thoughts?

 

of course not, but the OP didn't understand and we all missed it.

 

I have posted a suggested course of action.

 

Z

[SteveH2508]

Hello all,

It is rather quiet on the Citicard board so I was wondering some of the CCA mega-brains here would like to nip over there and give their opinions on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-779233.html ?

 

I have some ideas but other input would be gratefully received.

[Sparkie1723]

Hullo SteveH2508

 

I am no expert but the way I see it, I would write to them or call them and aked when the account was closed.

They have said they have no contractual relationship with you, therefore you have been paying on an non existant agreement and you can claim all the money back you have paid, plus interest, don't know if others agree.

 

sparkie1723

[caigey]

Hi can someone confirm to me is this an agrement or just an app form.

[adarling2006]

that is an application form, it doesn't have the prescribed terms in it, credit limit and that are missing so IMO that's not an agreement

[zubo]

Hi can someone confirm to me is this an agrement or just an app form.

 

Cagey

 

It is a precontractual APPLICATION form.

 

A lot of CCP have tried to insist that they are agreements too....

errr well this one fails big time with virtually every subscribed term required by the Act missing.

 

I would write back to them thanking them for the Application form and pointing them to these words from DTI

RT Hon Ian McCartney MP

Minister for Trade Investment and Foreign Affairs

 

If Mr Bardsley feels the rules are being flouted he should report the companies concerned to Trading Standards and the Office of fair trading. It is also a breach of the Act and the Regulations to send the application form rather that a true copy of the agreement.”

 

 

Also remind them that they are out of time, in default, cannot share your data etc etc

 

Go for it

 

Z

[zubo]

Hello all,

It is rather quiet on the Citicard board so I was wondering some of the CCA mega-brains here would like to nip over there and give their opinions on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-779233.html ?

 

I have some ideas but other input would be gratefully received.

 

I too have posted on the thread Steve

 

Z

[davefirewalker]

Most importantly it makes no reference to any terms and conditions.....

 

its an application form

[InKogneeToh]

Hello all,

It is rather quiet on the Citicard board so I was wondering some of the CCA mega-brains here would like to nip over there and give their opinions on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-779233.html ?

 

I have some ideas but other input would be gratefully received.

 

Hi

 

As far as I can see, you have decided not to take any more credit and have therefore stopped using the card, BUT you are still paying the account off under the terms of the agreement, therefore you do still have a contractual relationship with them , the agreement is still current and they are obliged to comply with your request.

 

HOWEVER, They have stated IN WRITING that there is NO contractual relationship and they are not enforcing any agreement!!?

 

If it was me, I would stop all further payments on this account. The creditor has said there is NO contractual relationship - they can't now go to court and say there is can they? If they did try to sue for the remainder of the debt, you would just need to produce a copy of that letter.

 

Also, the letter is their response to your request under CCA s77/78.

 

The Act says this:

 

172 Statements by creditor or owner to be binding

(1) A statement by a creditor or owner is binding on him if given under—

section 77(1),

section 78(1),

section 79(1),

section 97(1),

section 107(1)©,

section 108(1)©, or

section 109(1)©.

 

 

:D

 

Regards, Pam

 

 

 

[InKogneeToh]

Hello all,

It is rather quiet on the Citicard board so I was wondering some of the CCA mega-brains here would like to nip over there and give their opinions on http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-779233.html ?

 

I have some ideas but other input would be gratefully received.

 

Hi again

 

I have just had another thought! If it was me, I wouldn't write to them about this issue at all - it is just possible that they have been looking at the wrong account - i.e., someone else's that IS closed!

 

BUT, you now have a letter addressed to you saying that there is no contract - so treat it like the crown jewels!!

 

Regards, Pam

[davefirewalker]

Anyone want to cast an eye over my thoughts on this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-780736.html

 

Dave

[iconoclash]

Hi

 

Apparently you can buy a copy i believe it costs about £7 i don't know of any one who has found a free orriginal copy on line and i have looked.

I have a copy of the 1983/1557 Copy of agreement regs which contaqin the notorious sectio3 regulation that enables crditors to leave off sigs on coppies but to get the agreement regs 1983/1553 i had to go to the library and do a photo copy.

I will gladly send you what i have if you let me have your e-mail address or perhaps one of the people on here that have bought a copy on line will have pitty on us.

 

Regards

Peter

 

Hi - I have a letter in front of me that states : "

 

S. 180 of the CCA provides for making of regulations governing the form and content of copy agreements and, pursuant to that section, the Consumer Credit (cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations were introduced in 1983. Regulation 3 (2) provides that a copy need not be an exact copy of the agreement signed in that (we) are permitted to exclude from the copy:

 

(a) any details furnished by the customer (e.g. information required to underwrite the case and included in the agreement)

(b) any signature boxes, signature or date of signature, and,

© in certain cases, the customers name and address.

 

The letter is from a company pursuing an old debt and I have another thread on this. As the agreement sent is in said form, does this mean that they do not have to provide further details to the court in order to continue their action despite the total cost for credit also not quoted.

Confused here.

[davefirewalker]

Campari2

 

No, the regs allow them to send a copy without sigs etc etc, but for them to enforce it in a court of law they need the original docs. you may never find out if they have one until you take them on and see it in court.

 

Dave

[ian1969uk]

Hi - I have a letter in front of me that states : "

 

S. 180 of the CCA provides for making of regulations governing the form and content of copy agreements and, pursuant to that section, the Consumer Credit (cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations were introduced in 1983. Regulation 3 (2) provides that a copy need not be an exact copy of the agreement signed in that (we) are permitted to exclude from the copy:

 

(a) any details furnished by the customer (e.g. information required to underwrite the case and included in the agreement)

(b) any signature boxes, signature or date of signature, and,

© in certain cases, the customers name and address.

 

The letter is from a company pursuing an old debt and I have another thread on this. As the agreement sent is in said form, does this mean that they do not have to provide further details to the court in order to continue their action despite the total cost for credit also not quoted.

Confused here.

 

No, they would need a signed agreement to get a court to make an enforcement order, just be sure to point out to the court that this agreement does not, as far as you know, actually exist.

[davefirewalker]

while writing the above post, something struck me........

 

They need the original doc to proceed to court. my agreement looks like a microfiche copy......I didnt sign a microfiche, I wonder if the have the original at all? or if theyve archived everthing to save space.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-757767.html

 

is a photocopy of an agreement good enough, photocopys can be doctored. in fact when you are applying for certain things you have to send original docs....photocopies wont do !!

 

or is my thinking gone awry again

 

Dave

[SteveH2508]

Hi again

 

I have just had another thought! If it was me, I wouldn't write to them about this issue at all - it is just possible that they have been looking at the wrong account - i.e., someone else's that IS closed!

 

BUT, you now have a letter addressed to you saying that there is no contract - so treat it like the crown jewels!!

 

Regards, Pam

 

Pam

 

Thank you so much for reminding me about S172 regarding binding statements!

I shall continue this thread over in the Citicards forum to save confusion.

Have a clicky scaley thing on me!

[iconoclash]

Hi -another thought, the amount being claimed is over £9000 so I presume not to be heard in small claims. Disclosure rules are different aren't they if not small claims?? So - docs would have to be provided appropriately??

[InKogneeToh]

Pam

 

Thank you so much for reminding me about S172 regarding binding statements!

I shall continue this thread over in the Citicards forum to save confusion.

Have a clicky scaley thing on me!

 

Thank You!

[BlueSmartie]

Hello

 

I have recently joined and have been trying to read through this HUGE thread and all the others about credit agreements and debt collection. There is so much information spread between all the threads but I can't understand why there aren't any stickies for all the important information, such as what should be in agreements and what is meant by prescribed terms, or what all these 'regulations' say!

 

I have seen so many posts asking the same questions over and over and people are being given information but I can't find any of this in the libraries or as stickies.

 

Is this site's focus concentrated mainly on bank charges? I have already claimed mine back through another site but I do have some issues with credit agreements and debt collectors.

 

I understand this is a 'self help' site but this is going to be a bit of a problem if the key information on these subjects is not easily available for all to find!

 

Or am I looking in the wrong sections?

 

BS

[Stornoway]

Hello

 

I have recently joined and have been trying to read through this HUGE thread and all the others about credit agreements and debt collection. There is so much information spread between all the threads but I can't understand why there aren't any stickies for all the important information, such as what should be in agreements and what is meant by prescribed terms, or what all these 'regulations' say!

 

I have seen so many posts asking the same questions over and over and people are being given information but I can't find any of this in the libraries or as stickies.

 

Is this site's focus concentrated mainly on bank charges? I have already claimed mine back through another site but I do have some issues with credit agreements and debt collectors.

 

I understand this is a 'self help' site but this is going to be a bit of a problem if the key information on these subjects is not easily available for all to find!

 

Or am I looking in the wrong sections?

 

BS

I completely agree, its gtting really difficult to find information and / or answers to topics because of the amount of information on the site. It would be really helpful to have some form of index / sticky for a lot of the CCA topics.

[InKogneeToh]

Hello

 

I have recently joined and have been trying to read through this HUGE thread and all the others about credit agreements and debt collection. There is so much information spread between all the threads but I can't understand why there aren't any stickies for all the important information, such as what should be in agreements and what is meant by prescribed terms, or what all these 'regulations' say!

 

I have seen so many posts asking the same questions over and over and people are being given information but I can't find any of this in the libraries or as stickies.

 

Is this site's focus concentrated mainly on bank charges? I have already claimed mine back through another site but I do have some issues with credit agreements and debt collectors.

 

I understand this is a 'self help' site but this is going to be a bit of a problem if the key information on these subjects is not easily available for all to find!

 

Or am I looking in the wrong sections?

 

BS

 

Hi, and welcome to CAG!

 

That's a very good question! There are a few of us here, on this thread in particular, that seem to be constantly explaining the same facts and giving the same information and advice repeatedly. Whilst I'm sure none of us actually mind helping others with their CCA issues, there seems to be almost Zero input from the MODs/Site Helpers (apart from good old Tam! ) in this category of consumer problems on this site. I must admit I find this strange myself, since CCA/DCA issues appear to be at least as prevalent as bank charge problems.

 

Regards, Pam

[davefirewalker]

Pam i know you are busy, and i dont like asking direct questions, but

 

can you just have a look at my thoughts in this post

 

is there ANY mileage in anything ive written

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-780736.html

 

Dave