Cap1 & CCA return

[Dave777]

Sorry standup but what are you talking about.

 

Is your claim in excess of what you owe? If not just don't pay anything more - end of.

 

In fact once that is out of the way I suggest that you spend a considerable amount of time reading various interesting threads on the site.

 

You may then find that some members in a simular situation as you have actualy reclaimed the money they have already paid prior to discovering the creditor had no means of enforcing payment of the debt

 

 

And what happens to his/her credit file??

[adarling2006]

common sense lol, who would credit banks with that??? at the moment they are rocking and swaying from legal challenges and consumer backlashes. they made this pickle, about time they swallowed their own bitter pill.

[un1boy]

one could argue though that if they send out a copy of the agreement without your signature on it then it's not been properly executed, that's my understanding of it, which leads to the arguement with the banks that if they can't send out a signed copy then no such agreement exsists. just my Humble opinion.

 

Ok, the lenders can issue a copy of the agreement with no sigs if it is the true copy of your original agreement in order to satisfy the sec 77/78 reqquest ONLY.

 

When you are questioning the enforcability of the agreement, that is when you need to see the signature - if they have the original with ur sig they would just send it, it makes no sense them taking the time to cover over the sig boxes before photocopying.

[adarling2006]

point taken, but if they do that then it would be much easier and sensible for the banks to save time and costs(all those 2p's must add up) just to send the true signed copy in the first place. at the end of it all they are only delaying the eventual consequences of it being challenged.

[un1boy]

point taken, but if they do that then it would be much easier and sensible for the banks to save time and costs(all those 2p's must add up) just to send the true signed copy in the first place. at the end of it all they are only delaying the eventual consequences of it being challenged.

 

that's what I was trying to say adarling!

 

Basically, they may be able to omit the sigs from your TRUE agreement, but if u are questioning the enforcability then they need to send you the whole agreement!

[Perseus]

Of course (with my sinister mind) they could also be luring us into a false sense of security?

Nah - that's too complicated...

[adarling2006]

lol for a bank, anything is not only possible but frighteningly real. or is it me being too cynical???

[angel49]

Hi

Please could someone advise on the following? It is for an account I held with Dorothy Perkins/GE Money and I signed instore. It's the result of CCA from CL Finance.

Many thanks for any guidance/help on where I go from here.

 

 

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312/angel49_photo/DOTP.jpg

[monopoly23]

This is only a signed application. You need a signed agreement for the debt to be enforceable.

Strike that.

Sorry mis-read it. Don't actually understand what you're asking though.

[angel49]

Hi monopoly

Is it an application/agreement and is it enforceable? I have been paying token amounts of £5 p.m to ge money.Then got a letter from CL Finance to send money to them as it has been assigned.

[monopoly23]

Well its an application and agreement in one. Its signed and dated by both parties and it states the APR's payable and that they can be varied by law if you're given the notice.

I'd say it was enforcable yes.

[angel49]

Thanks monopoly. Just wanted to be absolutely sure before paying these people.

[angry cat]

Hi

Please could someone advise on the following? It is for an account I held with Dorothy Perkins/GE Money and I signed instore. It's the result of CCA from CL Finance.

Many thanks for any guidance/help on where I go from here.

 

 

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312/angel49_photo/DOTP.jpg

 

 

Hi,

This is obviously for a store card, as you have said.

 

Interesting though as again it is a circa 2000 APPLICATION FORM.

However, below that is stated CREDIT AGREEMENT.

 

Again, how can an Application be a Credit Agreement, as it is clearly pre-contractual, that is unless you were granted instant credit.and surely if that was the case then you would have signed a correctly formatted credit agreement stating the amount of credit that was provided.

Plus, it has the "Your Right to Cancel" but it was signed in-store?

 

In My Humble Opinion and I am no expert, the doc. that you have been sent does not fulfill the creditors obligations under S78 CCA 1974

 

AC

[angel49]

Hi angrycat (luv the name)

I signed instore as it was a promotional thing offering 10% off if you signed up that day.

It's all the technical jargon i don't really understand, I've read so many threads on this subject I'm lost!

As said earlier,I've been happily paying my debt at £5 pm but just got thrown by it being assigned as I don't know these people so went for CCA.

They have said I can continue with the same arrangement.

Re signing in-store and rights to cancel-what does that mean? Sorry if I appear ignorant, more confused than anything.

Thank you for your input

[angry cat]

RE: MS

 

Thanks JonCris, Joneshousehold, Un1boy, davefirewalker et Al.

 

I will post again once I have spoken to TS again, hopefully on Tuesday.

 

Have a Happy Bank Holiday.

 

Love AC

[davefirewalker]

Hi Angel49

 

It seems as though details of default charges are mising as well as statements of protection.

 

please see oft booklets cancellable and non cancellable agreements

 

these missing statements are a "MUST HAVE".

 

the agreement is certainly in doubt!!! if not improperly executed

 

Dave

[rippedoffagain]

Hi

Please could someone advise on the following? It is for an account I held with Dorothy Perkins/GE Money and I signed instore. It's the result of CCA from CL Finance.

Many thanks for any guidance/help on where I go from here.

 

 

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312/angel49_photo/DOTP.jpg

 

At a quick glance, it does not contain the bits telling you about your right to sue the creditor as well as supplier. I believe that is a prescribed term and may make it unenforceable.

[davefirewalker]

Hi,

This is obviously for a store card, as you have said.

 

Interesting though as again it is a circa 2000 APPLICATION FORM.

However, below that is stated CREDIT AGREEMENT.

 

Again, how can an Application be a Credit Agreement, as it is clearly pre-contractual, that is unless you were granted instant credit.and surely if that was the case then you would have signed a correctly formatted credit agreement stating the amount of credit that was provided.

Plus, it has the "Your Right to Cancel" but it was signed in-store?

 

In My Humble Opinion and I am no expert, the doc. that you have been sent does not fulfill the creditors obligations under S78 CCA 1974

 

AC

 

 

Hi AC

 

If you read it properly there is a reference to cancelation rights not being allowed if granted instant credit.... But as my previous post said it is missing some important stuff, which may render it improperly executed and maybe unenforceable

 

Dave

[un1boy]

Isn't there somethign around saying that if an application purports to make the agreement immediaterly then it is unenforcable?

 

I am probably confused here.

[angry cat]

Hi angrycat (luv the name)

I signed instore as it was a promotional thing offering 10% off if you signed up that day.

It's all the technical jargon i don't really understand, I've read so many threads on this subject I'm lost!

As said earlier,I've been happily paying my debt at £5 pm but just got thrown by it being assigned as I don't know these people so went for CCA.

They have said I can continue with the same arrangement.

Re signing in-store and rights to cancel-what does that mean? Sorry if I appear ignorant, more confused than anything.

Thank you for your input

 

Firstly, why would an Application Form have "Your Right to Cancel" as it is an Application for credit...why would you cancel something that you have not obtained.

Secondly, under s67 a doc. signed on premises is NOT cancellable. However, I think that is just nit picking in this instance.

 

If you make a request request under S78 CCA 1974 then the creditor should provide:-

 

"78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

 

 

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

 

 

(a) the state of the account, and

 

 

 

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

 

 

 

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor".

 

It would appear that the DCA/Creditor has not provided all of the above.

 

Again, I would state that I am no expert, but I hate store cards with a vengence!!!

 

I would not pay them another penny until they have complied fully and for god's sake don't re-sign anything until you are sure of your rights/position.

 

Off now all.

 

Love AC

[angry cat]

Yes, Un1boy...I do believe that you are correct.

Is it something to do with S59?

Peterbard will know.

 

Must go now or my roast beef will be ruined

 

AC

[angel49]

Thank you all for your comments/observations. So,should I now write back to these and say I believe it to be unenforceable because it lacks............what would be the precise terminology?

[rippedoffagain]

Thank you all for your comments/observations. So,should I now write back to these and say I believe it to be unenforceable because it lacks............what would be the precise terminology?

 

Something like this;

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: − Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

On the xxxxFebruary I requested a copy of the agreement relating to this account. The twelve working days expired on xxxxxx March.

 

You have been in default under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 since xxxApril 2007.

 

The only documentation that you have supplied me is a copy of a credit card application / agreement hybrid form. This does not meet with the requirements of the Act.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself.

 

The application form you have supplied does not contain the following prescribed terms.

 

1. xxxxxxx

2. xxxxxxx

 

I now require that you provide me with a copy of the correct document, or your written acknowledgement that you are unable to do so.

 

Thanking you in anticipation.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some CAGers advocate not mentioning what is missing from the application / agreement, I am not sure I see the point.

[angel49]

Thank you rippedoff,

I appreciate the help, is there a reason for not mentioning what is missing? As for them sending me the correct document,I'm not sure I had to sign anything else.

Many thanks.

[ncf355]

At a quick glance, it does not contain the bits telling you about your right to sue the creditor as well as supplier. I believe that is a prescribed term and may make it unenforceable.

 

RippedOff,

 

the statements of protection are not prescribed terms

 

However, they do make it improperly executed and only enforceable by a court order, which to my way of thinking means it has been improperly executed from the start, and as the improper execution part is the protection statements, its been improperly execuiuted in a way that prejudices Monopoloy

 

I would be inclined to push for the debt being wiped out and if they dont play ball, take them to court (but I do like taking CCA's to court, whereas I can appreciate some might find that daunting)

 

Also loads of crap in there between the title ("CCA regulated by CCA 1974") and the sig that doesnt belong and should be after the sigs - this breaks the 'no interspersing' rule at Consumer Credit Regulations 1983 SI 1553, Regulation 2(4)

 

There is probably loads more there but I'm a tad busy at the mo!

 

Fact is, by gaining the license to offer credit from the OFT, they are obliged to construct an agreement in the manner parliament dictates, and this example aint right!