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    • That is great news. Many people would have given up and paid after losing two appeals so well done for hanging in and fighting. It has paid off and they have finally backed down before getting whipped in Court. I looked at your NTD and your NTK again to see if there was a chance of going for a breach of your GDPR. Sadly although your NTK on its own could have well deserved a claim, the NTD is good enough not to warrant a claim even though it wasn;t compliant with PoFA. As it is the first Notice that mostly accounts for  GDPR breaches there is a reasonable cause for the NTD to have been issued. However you are now freed from worries about appearing in Court and you have learnt about the dangers of parking especially where the rogues that patrol private parking spaces are concerned. Thank you for making a donation and should you fall victim in the future to the parking rogues or anything else that we protect from, you are always welcome .
    • Hi guys I'm about to submit the defence as per below     There has been no reply to our CPR 31:14 request.  Is it worth adding that I (driver, not registered keeper) didn't actually enter or park in the car park and was sat at the petrol station forecourt the entire time?  Or is that covered by the simple points?   Thanks
    • a DCA is not a bailiff and cant enforce anything, even if they've been to court who are they please? sar to the original creditor FIO isnt applicable they are not a public body. who was this query sent too all the more reason to teach her young upon how these powerless DCA's monsters  work... she must stop payments now  
    • Unsettling the applecart?,  I'm going to be direct here, I know how this works , I've been in far worse situation than your relative, and I can assure you , now that there i likely a default in her name, it makes absolutely ZERO difference if she pays or not. Denzel Washington in the Equalizer , 'My only regret is that I can't kill you twice'... It's the same with a default, they can only do it once and it stays on your credit file for 6 years if she pays or not, and as it stands right now she's flushing £180 of her hard earned money down the toilet  so that the chaps at Lowell can afford a Christmas party. As for the SAR this is everybody's legal right, originally under the Data Protection act 1998 and now under GDPR, it's her right to find out everything that the original Creditor has on her file, and by not doing it the only person she is doing a massive disservice to is her self. As the father of 2 young adults myself, they need to learn at some point.. right?
    • Thank you for your pointers - much appreciated. dx100uk - Apologies, my request wasn't for super urgent advice and I have limited online access due to my long working hours and caring obligations - the delay in my response doesn't arise in any way from disrespect or ingratitude. I will speak to her at the weekend and see if she will open up a bit more about this, and allow me to submit the subject access request you advise - the original creditor is 118 118 loans and from the letter I saw (which prompted the conversation and the information) the debt collection agency had bought the debt from 118 and were threatening enforcement which is when she has made a payment arrangement with them for an amount of £180 per month. It looks as if she queried matters at the time (so I wonder if I might with the FIO request get access to their investigation file?) - the letter they wrote said "The information that you provided has been carefully considered and reviewed. After all relevant enquiries were made it has been confirmed that there is not enough evidence present to conclusively prove that this application was fraudulent.  However, we have removed the interest as a gesture of goodwill. As a result of the findings, you will be held liable for the capital amount on the loan on the basis of the information found during the investigation and you will be pursued for repayment of the loan agreement executed on 2.11.2022 in accordance with Consumer Credit Act 1974"  The amount at that time was over £3600 in arrears, as no payments had been made on it since inception and I think she only found out about it when a default notice came in paper form. I'm a little reluctant to advise her to just stop paying, and would like to be able to form a view in relation to her position and options before unsetting the applecart - do you think this is reasonable? She is young and inexperienced with these things and getting into this situation has brought about a lot of shame regarding inability to sort things out/stand up for herself, which is one of the reasons I have only found out about this considerably later Thank you once again for your advice - it is very much appreciated.    
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Cap1 & CCA return


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So whos the other guy who commented that if they credtors are stupid enough to leave out the terms its basically tuff luck. Cant remeber his name

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So whos the other guy who commented that if they credtors are stupid enough to leave out the terms its basically tuff luck. Cant remeber his name

 

Hang on, I think I am wrong above

 

Francis Bennion wrote the CCA 1974, Prof goode wrote the book Peter has.

 

It was Francis Bennion that said this.

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Well, this is the first I have heard of this Goode fellow & jolly good he seems too! Pity his pronouncements are so expensive. Does anyone know where I could study a copy apart from law school? I can't imagine my local library will have a copy & if I request one I can see my council tax going up immediately!!

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Just a quck question.

 

As well as claiming costs if you win a SD set aside hearing, can you also claim for stress and suffering?

 

HAK

 

What's an SD hearing?

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HI Uni

 

Notice subseccrion (a) says containing this means the terms must be contained within the document the section.

(b) refers to other pieces of information. Which means other documents mentioned in the above.

 

Prof Goode makes this point in his book where he talkes about the difference between the terms contained and embodied, its on page 322. I have reproduced the bit of the act unfer here.

Unfortunately i cannot include the quote from Dr, goodes book athough i can send you a scan of the page if you email me.

 

Big difference between the words contained and embodies.

 

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed

terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the

prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the

creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than

implied terms, and

©

the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for

Butterworths Direct - Print Page 38 of 160

 

http://wellington.butterworths.co.uk/wbs/NETbos.dll?POView?sk=AAFIMJMA&bk=... 22/12/2001

 

If you could scan and email it, that would be great - do you want me to PM you my email, or do you still have it?

 

Peter - what's the best way for me to proceed with this, I assume this should be entered into the appeal reason - but, could they not say that this should have been mentioned in the original hearing?

 

my main issue is that I didn't get their skeleton arguments until the night before the trial (they submitted them to the court in the morning of the trial!!!) and the definitions part wasn't even mentioend in them.

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Correct Chris, although if deemed unreasonable you could be spanked for costs, in reality i cannot see that happening and the other sides costs would be minimal

 

Jesus - I hope I don't get costs, and can't see why I didn't.

 

they tried to get the judge to award 6k costs agsint me, saying that I'd acted unreasonable - but thankfully, she didn't agree.

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

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HI

This really dies need challengining.

 

You only need to look at the act.

Section 61a is quite clear as is SI1983/1553 that the agreement must contain the terms.

The provision mentioned in subsection(b) is to provide an overall coverage for the inclusion of other information relavant to the document not those stipulated by section 60.

 

Dr Goode even conjectures that section (b) could be interpreted to mean that all documentaion involved in the purchasing of the loan should be included, this would mean any advertising and pre contractual information even that not set in writing, for instance any verbal promises made by the creditor under section 56 (in the anticedent neotiations ) would have to be included as since they were spoken they could not be regarded as implied terms and would fall under section 61(b).

If they were not, then in theory section 65 would apply and the agreement could be made unenforceable. In practice the court would not be likely to allow this but it illustrates the funcion of section 61(b) and also the meaning of the term "embody" which is a world away from, "contained", as in 61(a) wich relates to the terms that must be within the agreement.

Besty regards

Peter

 

I agree it needs challenging - I need to get clued up on the whole appeal process to be honest.

 

The main thing Peter is that they didn't give me their arguments until the night before. also, the fact they were going to mention the definitions weren't in them - he brought them up seperately so there was no way for me to prepare. The judge was aware of all of this too.

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

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My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

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& if I request one I can see my council tax going up immediately!!

 

LMAO

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

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My library has it - but for reference only!

Edited by un1boy

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

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My library has it - but for reference only!

 

I will try and nip to the Library this week and also see if they have a copy.

 

If so I will photocopy the info and post

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If so I will photocopy the info and post

 

Sounds a good idea but do you know how BIG this volume is? And are you sure that there wouldn't be copyright issues on that knightmare?

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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:DI was just going to copy the relivant page

 

Cop out knightmare!!

 

(Do check the copyright though)

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Jesus - I hope I don't get costs, and can't see why I didn't.

 

they tried to get the judge to award 6k costs agsint me, saying that I'd acted unreasonable - but thankfully, she didn't agree.

 

There are no costs awarded in the small claims court, (unless the behaviour is unreasonable) however a schedule of costs will be prepared by the opposition just in case it goes to appeal. If you take the case to appeal and lose you will be liable for the other sides costs.

 

 

 

Paul

Edited by paulwlton

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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Hi

I am sorry I can’t get my scanner to work.

The section is on page 322 under the heading signature of documents.

The relevant quote from Goode is.

“By Para(b) the document must embody all express terms of the agreement word "embody”(in contrast to “Contain” in Para (a) )means that a document need not set out all the terms in itself but may refer to another document, however that document must be expressly referred to; an implication however clear, would not suffice.”

The point is.

Section 61a contains the instructions to the creditor that all the “prescribed terms” must be “contained” within the agreement.

Whereas the section used as the defence in Uniboys case refers to section 61(b) which refers to the “terms” “embodying” the agreement which refer to all other information not contained in the regulations (default procedure, contact information, matters relating to company policy, etc. These can be located in another document as long as it is expressly referred to in the text of the agreement.

The judge appears to have been misled in this.

 

 

Regards

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Hi

I am sorry I can’t get my scanner to work.

 

The section is on page 322 under the heading signature of documents.

The relevant quote from Goode is.

 

“By Para(b) the document must embody all express terms of the agreement word "embody”(in contrast to “Contain” in Para (a) )means that a document need not set out all the terms in itself but may refer to another document, however that document must be expressly referred to; an implication however clear, would not suffice.”

 

 

The point is.

 

Section 61a contains the instructions to the creditor that all the “prescribed terms” must be “contained” within the agreement.

 

Whereas the section used as the defence in Uniboys case refers to section 61(b) which refers to the “terms” “embodying” the agreement which refer to all other information not contained in the regulations (default procedure, contact information, matters relating to company policy, etc. These can be located in another document as long as it is expressly referred to in the text of the agreement.

 

 

The judge appears to have been misled in this.

 

 

Regards

Peter

 

 

This is grounds for appeal on a mistake in law

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This is grounds for appeal on a mistake in law

 

HI

 

Sorry yes i believe that this is the only acceptable cause for appeal in these cases.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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I could be wrong, but I think it refers to a statutory demand set aside hearing!

 

 

Jeff.

 

Sorry if I'm being thick - but what is a statutory demand hearing for?

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

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