Ex employer may cost me employment by not responding to reference requests

[chrisd8780]

After 2 years of looking I landed a job with a decent organisation I wanted to work for. This job offers pension, progression opportunities, sick pay etc so its not just a case of this causing me to lose a job more like a new career.

 

In August towards the end I was offered and accepted a conditional offer of employment. One of the conditions being references one of which had to be ex employer. Since then the reference request has been sent out three times and my ex employer has not responded.

 

I have tried chasing it up several times at my potential employers request, when I have chased it up I get told "we can't speak for the person writing it" and there's always an excuse that he's not there etc. Relaid this back to potential employers and the reasons why I think they are not writing it (spite). Offered other employer references but these go back years (employed with ex employer 9 years).

 

Last Thursday morning(4 weeks after 1st ref request) my potential employer told me they had rung my ex employer and spoken with their HR department (which doesn't exist) and they have assured them they are going to return the reference(how long does it take, are they sending it via snail back) Nearly a week now still not heard anything which means they haven't received it.

 

I was employed 9 years roughlyresigned on health grounds, with good attendance and time keeping and a top performer production figures don't lie, until my injury with no disciplinary's, although 1 pending for an argument with a supervisor(about what duties I could perform with my problem) and swearing in retaliation. While I was off sick I also wrote a grievance letter about the Manager regarding my sick/injury leave (his attitude, jobs I could perform etc) this got passed back to him to deal with.

This resulted in him threatening more disciplinary's with so called witnesses, when I queried that it was a witch hunt in retaliation he laughed to try and make me respond with something silly. Overall I deserve a good reference and even if they think not why not write a bad one, I listed my Supervisor who once agreed he would write one (a few years ago) and who always tried poaching me when we worked separate shifts.

 

Another reason I think they are spiting me is I threatened court action over unlawful deduction of wages/non payment of holidays which was a lot of money they was withholding.

 

What can I do if they don't write it.

[Old Cogger]

After 2 years of looking I landed a job with a decent organisation I wanted to work for. This job offers pension, progression opportunities, sick pay etc so its not just a case of this causing me to lose a job more like a new career.

 

In August towards the end I was offered and accepted a conditional offer of employment. One of the conditions being references one of which had to be ex employer. Since then the reference request has been sent out three times and my ex employer has not responded.

 

I have tried chasing it up several times at my potential employers request, when I have chased it up I get told "we can't speak for the person writing it" and there's always an excuse that he's not there etc. Relaid this back to potential employers and the reasons why I think they are not writing it (spite). Offered other employer references but these go back years (employed with ex employer 9 years).

 

Last Thursday morning(4 weeks after 1st ref request) my potential employer told me they had rung my ex employer and spoken with their HR department (which doesn't exist) and they have assured them they are going to return the reference(how long does it take, are they sending it via snail back) Nearly a week now still not heard anything which means they haven't received it.

 

I was employed 9 years roughlyresigned on health grounds, with good attendance and time keeping and a top performer production figures don't lie, until my injury with no disciplinary's, although 1 pending for an argument with a supervisor(about what duties I could perform with my problem) and swearing in retaliation. While I was off sick I also wrote a grievance letter about the Manager regarding my sick/injury leave (his attitude, jobs I could perform etc) this got passed back to him to deal with.

This resulted in him threatening more disciplinary's with so called witnesses, when I queried that it was a witch hunt in retaliation he laughed to try and make me respond with something silly. Overall I deserve a good reference and even if they think not why not write a bad one, I listed my Supervisor who once agreed he would write one (a few years ago) and who always tried poaching me when we worked separate shifts.

 

Another reason I think they are spiting me is I threatened court action over unlawful deduction of wages/non payment of holidays which was a lot of money they was withholding.

 

What can I do if they don't write it.

 

Might pay you to go to the job centre and report what is going on, as I was told once that an employer has to respond in a reasonable time to reference request, even if they did not want to, the reference must be accurate (there use to be wordings with certain meanings i.e. unsatifactory, with out stating that word) so enquire from job centre they should move things along for you??

Edited October 19, 2011 by Old Cogger

[chrisd8780]

May try that if they haven't received it by tomorrow. Just concerned they'd stop JSA. Been in the silly position of applying for jobs and even attended an interview while waiting.

[daggersedge]

I don't believe that there is a legal requirement for an ex-employer to provide a reference, so I don't think there is anything you can do to compel your ex-employer to give you one.

 

Does the reference have to come from your last employer? If not, have you ever worked for anyone else who might be willing to provide you with a reference?

 

Another thing: your potential employer is being more than a bit inflexible here given that I think there is no legal duty for an ex-employer to provide a reference. Is there anyone in this organisation to whom you can speak to try to sort out the matter should you not receive a reference?

[Sidewinder]

There is no legal obligation for an employer to provide a reference apart from in certain sectors, such as financial services. Where the employer refuses to provide a reference, you are extremely limited in terms of what you can do. You may have to, for example, prove that it is common practice for the employer to give references and that their actions in not giving one are malicious or discriminatory in intent, whereby there may be a claim for damages if your new employer retracts the offer of employment.

[chrisd8780]

Not financial. Doesn't them saying they are doing the reference to the potential employer prove that they write them. Otherwise surely you would say it is not company policy to write it. Something needs doing with reference law, they have the power to potentially keep me unemployed.

There is no legal obligation for an employer to provide a reference apart from in certain sectors, such as financial services. Where the employer refuses to provide a reference, you are extremely limited in terms of what you can do. You may have to, for example, prove that it is common practice for the employer to give references and that their actions in not giving one are malicious or discriminatory in intent, whereby there may be a claim for damages if your new employer retracts the offer of employment.

[chrisd8780]

Been emailing one of their HR department staff telling them what's happening with ex employer. Offered other references, problem being they go back between 9 and 12 years, and they wanted last employer on application form. Not 100% sure it will cost the job, hoping they will see my point of view with them lying about writing the reference over the phone to potential employer. Got two good non employer references.

I don't believe that there is a legal requirement for an ex-employer to provide a reference, so I don't think there is anything you can do to compel your ex-employer to give you one.

 

Does the reference have to come from your last employer? If not, have you ever worked for anyone else who might be willing to provide you with a reference?

 

Another thing: your potential employer is being more than a bit inflexible here given that I think there is no legal duty for an ex-employer to provide a reference. Is there anyone in this organisation to whom you can speak to try to sort out the matter should you not receive a reference?

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Thing is they could just argue they were snowed under with work and no ill intent intended.

 

Although not nice of them.

[Sidewinder]

Agreed. There are a multitude of possible reasons that an employer could give for not providing one - snowed under, misplaced, the cat ate it....

 

I agree that providing a reference should be obligatory, even where it just confirms start and finish dates. At least it sounds as though you are keeping the new employer abreast of the situation.

 

You could also try a Subject Access Request to the previous employer asking for full disclosure of all documents relating to your employment. This would at least provide the confirmation over your length of service and although not a reference would provide some details which might help the new employer to confirm your employment.

[yorklass2009]

While giving a reference isn't obligatory they can refuse to give one, however a previous employer must give a potential employer the dates you were employed what your basic job role was and how long you worked there for. This basically confirms your employment with them. Have a look on the acas or business link websites

[papasmurf1cx]

Does the new employer know of the circumstances of your leaving the last employer? It strikes me under the circumstances you left the reference from the last employer is the last thing that you would want.

 

Also, I am intrigued by the circumstances of you leaving which was obviously whilst under dispute with them. There appears to be some injury that limited your ability to do things ... is this enough to qualify as a disability? You were obviously asking for some reasonable adjustment which was being disputed. You obviously submitted a grievance over this and the employer's reaction to it was less than satisfactory. Then you left as they were going to vistimise you.

 

In those circumstances you MAY have a claim for Disability Discriminatiion, (if the injury qualifies) Victimisation, (if you complained about discrimination in the grievance or at least raised the discriminatory circumstances) Constructive Unfair Dismissal may also be applicable.

 

The thing is if your new employer still insists even after knowing the circumstances in having the reference, you could try submitting an ET claim for the above. Of course the main thing you want is a reference and a letter requesting such is not unteasonable in exchange for dropping the claim.

 

There are time limits in the ET and you may have to act quickly to start the process.

[Old Cogger]

Does your employer have to give you a reference?

 

If you want to leave your job you will probably want a reference. It's good practice for your employer to give one, but they don't have to if your contract doesn't say they have to, except in some regulated industries like financial services.

• Employment contracts
  

What information will be in the reference?

 

References must be accurate and shouldn't mislead the employer asking for them. This means that if, for example, you were disciplined when you worked for the employer who's giving you a reference, this may form part of the reference. However, unless you agree, information like your medical record or any spent criminal convictions shouldn't normally be included (as it will not be relevant).

If a reference you have been given isn't accurate or is deliberately misleading it may amount to defamation, in which case, you could claim for libel. You will need to speak to a lawyer about how to do this. If you are still employed it may amount to constructive dismissal.

• Constructive dismissal
  

An employer may choose to give a reference that just confirms your dates of employment. There is nothing unlawful in this, unless your employer normally gives full references and is discriminating against you.

[Old Cogger]

you a reference

If you complained about discriminatory behaviour by your employer, and they won't give you a reference as a result, you may be able to claim for continued discrimination (victimisation).

If you need a reference while you are still employed

 

If you feel that a prospective employer asking your current employer for a reference would cause a problem, say so at your interview. Your prospective employer may be prepared to wait until you have told your current employer that you are leaving. You have no special protection under the law, but if you are dismissed because your employer is asked to provide a reference, this could amount to unfair dismissal.

• Unfair dismissal
  

Asking for a copy of your reference once you start your new job

 

Once you start working for a new employer you can ask them for a copy of any reference they've been given from your previous employers. They should supply it to you under data protection law.

• Find out more about data protection Opens new window
  

Job offers

[chrisd8780]

I had no choice in listing previous employer, in the email contact I have filled them in on the circumstances regarding me leaving and what occured after (I can prove the unlawful deductions , grievance letter kept copies. And still have my consent form to see the company doctor who never turned up).

 

It was a shoulder injury, but was told by a solicitor a month before I resigned (resigned roughly 6 months ago), that the company had been sly not pushing for a medical report as without that you can't claim disability discrimination as technically the employer doesn't know you have a disability and are therefore not discriminating. The only thing I could've claimed at the time of leaving was constructive dismissal (told new employer this also) but I was out of time as I left it too late, would have been hard to win though anyway.

 

Not got the grievance letter with me stored on another computer. (this was wrote roughly November 2009 on acas advice, sick leave started August 2009) I can remember before writing it I attended work to hand a sick note in, and the supervisor who I (thought) I got on with saying " a lot of work has come up repairing etc if it was up to me I would let you do it but Manager would see that as you picking and choosing your job and wont allow it" would have only been few weeks work but would've help me out financially. I definitely put that in and couldn't see why they was employing less experienced agency staf to do it. What other roles I could perform but wasn't being allowed to because of the managers stance on picking and choosing your job etc. I also put how I had a near perfect absence record prior to this and thought it was unfair people were performing these other roles when they could have just been swapped with me. Also included that on the day of me being sent home sick I could have done work other people were doing including walking round with a sweeping brush and pulling grass/weeds out of the buildings grounds. That lead to the trouble in the earlier post and every jobs heavy speech, repairing job only temporary, even driving a fork truck and sweeping up was heavy in their opinion.

 

 

Does the new employer know of the circumstances of your leaving the last employer? It strikes me under the circumstances you left the reference from the last employer is the last thing that you would want.

 

Also, I am intrigued by the circumstances of you leaving which was obviously whilst under dispute with them. There appears to be some injury that limited your ability to do things ... is this enough to qualify as a disability? You were obviously asking for some reasonable adjustment which was being disputed. You obviously submitted a grievance over this and the employer's reaction to it was less than satisfactory. Then you left as they were going to vistimise you.

 

In those circumstances you MAY have a claim for Disability Discriminatiion, (if the injury qualifies) Victimisation, (if you complained about discrimination in the grievance or at least raised the discriminatory circumstances) Constructive Unfair Dismissal may also be applicable.

 

The thing is if your new employer still insists even after knowing the circumstances in having the reference, you could try submitting an ET claim for the above. Of course the main thing you want is a reference and a letter requesting such is not unteasonable in exchange for dropping the claim.

 

There are time limits in the ET and you may have to act quickly to start the process.

[chrisd8780]

Got a meeting with new employer in a few days to discuss it all further.

[chrisd8780]

Attended meeting to find out they have finally received the reference:-). Just one more hurdle to clear and the jobs mine..

Don't know how it can take that long to return it (one of quietest periods of year for company) could have already been working.

But all's well what ends well.