AA Car Insurance continuing to take money from my account even though I cancelled the direct debit

[Matt63]

I have an issue with AA Car Insurance whereby they are continuing to take money from my bank account despite me cancelling the direct debit several times.

 

For a number of years, I paid the car insurance of my girlfriend's car by direct debit. The policy was in my name and I was a named driver but when we split up I told her that her car insurance was down to her (and her new boyfriend) as from the next renewal.

 

The vehicle was insured with Highway but Highway had left the AA panel and they sent me a letter inviting renewal with a different insurer as from 12th May 2011. I phoned them up on at the end of April and told them I was not going to renew and cancelled my direct debit.

 

My ex girlfriend told me a few days later that she had got a good quote from AA and transferred the policy into her name.

 

Next thing I knew, i got a letter dated 7th May thanking me for my renewal with Zenith and stating that payments would be taken out by direct debit. My ex g/f told me that the letters must have crossed and not to worry about it.

 

Then I discovered that the AA had set up another direct debit mandate and I immediately cancelled it and wrote to the AA, on 30th June 2011, asking what was going on as I had not renewed the policy and that it was my understanding that the policy had been transferred into my ex g/f's name and that therefore I was not responsible for the payments.

 

I did not get a reply, but somehow they managed to set up another direct debit and this time they took 158.70 on 4th August. So, on the 5th August 2011, on the advice of my bank, I wrote to them again and told them that they did not have permission to take money from my account and they did not have permission to set up any more direct debits.

 

I did not get a reply to that letter either, so I wrote to them a third time on 1st September. I checked my account on 30th September and there was no direct debit set up, however they took a further £158.30 on 5th October as they had decided to set up another direct debit on 3rd October. So I wrote to them again and cancelled the direct debit again

 

So all in all I have cancelled my direct debit 4 times and written 4 letters to them and they have managed to take £317.00 from my bank account and not replied to any of my letters.

 

I phoned them up yesterday and had real difficulty talking to anyone as I did not have security details on the account. Eventually I did get through to someone who told me that my ex g/f had indeed changed the correspondence address to her name and address but the policy was still in my name. They had not responded to my letters because they came from a different address to that recorded on the policy. They took the direct debits because they are entitled to do so because it is a condition of the policy that a valid direct debit is in place, and as my ex g/f had not given new direct debit details, they took the direct debit on the occasions that she was late in paying by debit card.

 

I pointed out to them that i had told them I wasn't going to renew, that it was not my car, I did not drive it and that I had written to them telling them they could not take direct debits from my account, and that taking money without my permission was fraudulent.

 

They basically said "tough" as the policy is in my name and that I am therefore responsible for the payments and that they will continue to take direct debits for the remainder of the policy.

 

I have spoken to my ex about this and she maintains that the AA have got it all wrong and she did not renew the policy but took out a new policy. She is happy to pay by debit card she doesn't want to set up a direct debit as she does not "do" direct debits.

 

My bank say they can't reclaim the money without the agreement of AA, which of course the AA won't give. What's more I had emptied the account so that no money could be taken but the bank decided to grant me an "informal overdraft" and have charged me £35 for the privilege!

 

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Matt

[2ltr16valve]

I would cite fruad with your bank, being as it was not YOU that set up this new renewal - and was not you that agreed to pay for this policy.

 

Surely also, the insurance is void ... as the main policy holder, you do not own the vehicle and it is not registered to you. ?

 

I would demand the bank issue a DD indeminty claim for all the payments, as you have not agreed to any of them. It will likely get your ex in trouble but that is her look out.

[Matt63]

Thanks, sadly the bank won't do an DD Indemnity Claim without the agreement of the AA, they say it is a dispute between the AA and myself and that I have to resolve it myself. Difficult to do that if they won't answer letters! I gather that cancellation of the policy is not an option either as my ex ran into the back of a stationary vehicle a couple of weeks after her new policy was taken out. The AA are claiming the policy was renewed, but I don't see how, as it is with a completely different insurer? I take it I am entitled to ask for a copy of the conversation in which they claim the policy was renewed?

[2ltr16valve]

Thanks, sadly the bank won't do an DD Indemnity Claim without the agreement of the AA, they say it is a dispute between the AA and myself and that I have to resolve it myself. Difficult to do that if they won't answer letters! I gather that cancellation of the policy is not an option either as my ex ran into the back of a stationary vehicle a couple of weeks after her new policy was taken out. The AA are claiming the policy was renewed, but I don't see how, as it is with a completely different insurer? I take it I am entitled to ask for a copy of the conversation in which they claim the policy was renewed?

 

I would be inclided to say your bank are talking .... C.R.A. im sure you know the last letter lol. The idea of a indemnity claim is when payment/s are taken that are not authorised or agreed to. There is also such a thing as a Direct Debit gurantee, which would apply here.... as you as the account holder have not been informed 14 days before the due date of the amount and frequency of payment.... pretty impossible as you did not authorise them in the first place !

[Matt63]

Thank you very much for the suggestion. I phoned them back, spoke to a different lady, and she agreed that failing to give the 14 days notice was sufficient grounds for an idemnity claim, and they have now processed a direct debit idemnity claim for me. That's the best bit of news I have had all day! Thanks again for the great idea!

[2ltr16valve]

Thank you very much for the suggestion. I phoned them back, spoke to a different lady, and she agreed that failing to give the 14 days notice was sufficient grounds for an idemnity claim, and they have now processed a direct debit idemnity claim for me. That's the best bit of news I have had all day! Thanks again for the great idea!

 

Not a problem hope you get the rest of the issue resolved. I would suggest writing to your bank with the details of the AA's Direct Debit and advise them they are NOT to allow anymore payments to the AA group until further notice - stating the ref number on the DD's (should be a ref number the same on all of them).

[MARTIN3030]

Seems Motor Insurance companies are happy to deal over the phone,and by email,but their systems and people are simply not geared up to respond to surface mail.

If you have notified them about a change,or a problem and you have proof of delivery,and they still ignore or continue to demand or take payments when they are not entitled,then a LBA should be sent.

[D.H AA Rep]

There are several different concerns within this thread. If anyone would like to discuss these with the AA, please call us on 0845 608 2818, Option 1.

[MARTIN3030]

Thank you for making an appearance DH.

I have no doubt that our members with queries are more than aware of this telephone number and its options.

 

I think it would be far better and meaningful if you could actually spare a few moments to respond here at least with something aside from a phone number.

 

Your comment that there are 'several different concerns with this thread', is something that we already know-so why dont you attempt to try to alleviate these concerns here ?

[Matt63]

Thanks DH but the problem is that the phone operators won't talk to me as I can't "pass security" as I don't know the address the policy is registered to, and they won't answer my letters as they are coming from an address that is not on the policy. So far I have made three phone calls, written four letters and cancelled four direct debits. Any suggestions?

[MARTIN3030]

Perhaps you should send them a 14 day LBA and follow it up with a small claims action for all your time and costs in trying to sort this.

I bet you will soon hear from them then.

[Matt63]

Thanks Martin. I need to give them a little longer to respond to my last letter, and for the bank to follow through their investigations but that is certainly what I am considering. Hopefully DH will contact me directly and I can give him/her the policy number so that he/she can investigate.

 

I am aware that I don't know all the facts but what I do know is that:

a) I told them I was not going to accept their quote and cancelled the direct debit,

b) I did not renew with them and/or take out the new policy with Zenith, and

c) I have written to them a number of times over a number of months letting them know this and asking them not to take out any more direct debits.

Given those circumstances it was entirely wrong to create a new direct debit on 3rd October and then take money on the 5th October.

 

I accept they might have data protection issues about my letter coming from a different address to the one the policy is registered at, but they must have received the letters and given the content they knew that I wasn't happy. They could have worked out that it was me as my signature hasn't changed. If they couldn't write to me, then they could at least have picked up the phone, as my mobile number was printed on the letter and is the same as it always has been.

 

I would be very interested to hear what DH thinks about this?

[Matt63]

Well three weeks have passed, and DH has not logged in again to the forum, nor have the AA answered my letter of 5th October or my chasing letter of 26th October.

 

That makes 5 letters, dated 30th June, 5th August, 1st September, 5th October and 26th October that they have not responded to. I will find out in the next couple of days whether they try to take another direct debit from my account.

 

I have today sent a PM to DH asking him to contact me. If he doesn't, I will have little option but to take the AA to court.

 

What on earth are they playing at? Why won't they answer my letters?

[MaxxPower]

Have you considered closing the bank account or asking the bank to issue you with a new account number/sort code? I know it might be a hassle, but it's probably better than endlessly continuing to write to the AA.

[MARTIN3030]

Thanks for the update.

I think a pm will be pretty futile given that they have not been on the site.

I will send DH an email.

[Matt63]

Thanks, MaxxPower, tried that but Bank of Scotland told me they wanted me to pay off my overdraft before they would consider opening a new account. I said OK but then they said I failed the credit check for a new account. Thanks Martin for your help, let's hope it works. Matt.

[markmarcos]

Sorry to hear about this fiasco, and that is from what is supposed to be a reputable company!

Pathetic customer service, no real attempt to even understand the situation, ripping off an innocent consumer, what are they looking to achieve????????????

 

Well they've achieved the likes of my family & friends NEVER to be insured by them.

Bye-bye AA, this is the sort of behaviour that starts the engine of a slow demise!

[MARTIN3030]

Yes just to clarify I sent email to AA rep this morning.

This simply is not good enough.

Give it until after the weekend and if no response I will happily help you to put a claim together-I have done 3 of these myself and unfortunately its the only language they understand.

[Matt63]

Well no response from DH, but I have finally today received a letter. It was incorrectly addressed, it had the right street name and post code but did not have a house number, so it was pure luck that the letter was delivered. The letter was from a lady who said that she had only been passed the complaint "two days ago" and that they needed more time to investigate and respond respond. This is the first I have heard from them since my first letter of 30th June!

[Wulfyn]

Hi Matt63,

 

3 things to note here.

 

 

1. The policy is in your name, but you are not the owner of the vehicle nor any longer associated with the owner of the vehicle. This means that you have no material interest in the vehicle, which makes the contract void. It is a condition of all insurance that the policy holder has a material interest in the item being insured, otherwise everyone would just start taking out insurance policies against other people in the hope (gamble) that they got hit so a claim could be made.

 

This means that your ex, despite what she thinks, is uninsured. If I were to work in a claims department and could save my company a big payout for something like this then I would report it.

 

 

 

2. Your ex-girlfriend took out a new policy in your name, and is therefore stealing from you. Although I agree that there are faults from the AA in this matter, I do think that the ultimate responsibility lies with your ex. Especially as she's not even benefiting from it (see point 1).

 

 

3. In order for the AA to renew the policy then they have to notify you, in writing, at least 21 days prior to the inception of the new policy. If they do not do this then they have to get confirmation from you. So considering that the AA are refusing to talk to you because you cannot identify yourself as the policyholder, I have to ask how did they let your ex take out a new policy in your name when she could not identify herself as being you? Did the AA in fact let someone renew a policy in your name without getting your permission?

 

I know that when I have helped family members to set up a policy it is ok for me to answer all the questions, but when it comes to authorising payment they have to speak to the account holder of the account that is going to pay. They have allowed someone that is not you to access your account. I would very much ask them why they are allowing this, and ask for evidence that the cardholder's / account holder's permission was given to use the account.

 

 

Hope that information helps. I would definitely explain point 1 to your ex, because if she got into an accident that was her fault she will find herself in a lot of trouble.

[Matt63]

Thanks Wulfyn, I think I pretty much agree with you.

 

There are definitely three sides to the story, and I am not sure my ex g/f is being entirely honest with me and she is certainly getting some strange advice from her new b/f who somehow thinks that I should still be paying for her car and it's insurance!

 

However my dealings are with the AA. I had told them I wasn't going to renew, I had even asked for quotes to put the insurance into her name, using a couple of possible registration numbers, but obviously she had had to actually phone up and then accept one of those quotes.

 

She then phoned up the AA, and afterwards told me that she had managed to get the same price as last year, which I thought was a bit odd but didn't question at the time. As I had moved house I did not receive the renewal documentation for a while. When I did get it I probably should have written back immediately but I didn't actually do so until I became aware that they had created another direct debit instruction. Since then it has been a question of getting them to respond to my letters.

[Matt63]

Well i have today received a reply to my complaint. In a nutshell they reject it entirely and have requested me to pay £1158.68 within 7 days, failing which they will transfer the debt to their collections department!

 

Their rationale is that:

a) the policy was set to auto-renew and a letter to that effect was sent to my old address

b) cancelling the direct debit is not sufficient to cancel the policy

c) they have no trace of my telephone call telling them the policy was not being renewed

d) my ex g/f then accepted the renewal (she says this is not correct) and changed the correspondence address to her address (she says she changed the policy to her name)

e) they never received the letter I wrote to them on 30th June telling them that an error had been made and the policy was not my policy

f) when I wrote to them on 5th August, to formally cancel the direct debit, and which mentioned my letter of 30th June, they wrote to me asking me to call them but sent the letter to the correspondence address

h) based on my letters they received in September they have determined that there was never an insurable interest so they cancelled the policy in early October

i) but then they sent the cancellation note to my old address by recorded delivery which was returned undelivered by the post office

j) so my ex g/f has been driving without insurance for several weeks without her knowledge

k) however, since there has been a claim on the policy then payment for the whole year is still required

l) and, since the policy is in my name I have to pay!

 

Wonderful customer service! Advice anyone?

[Matt63]

I've been reading their four page letter very carefully again and I think the fundamental premise of their letter is flawed as it is based on factual inaccuracies.

 

Basically they are saying it is my fault for not phoning to tell them a) I wasn't renewing and b) for not letting them know that my ex and I had split up. But I did do both of those things, with a phone call and the first three letters. What they are saying is that they have no trace of the phone call (fortunately my itemised phone bill does show a long call to their number on the correct date) and that they didn't get my first letter, they replied to my second letter merely by writing to me asking me to call them (but they sent it to my ex g/f's address and she did not forward it to me), and they did not get the third letter. They accept they did get my fourth and fifth letters and apologised for the delay in replying.

 

What they are saying is that my ex g/f renewed the policy and they had no reason not to accept her authority. I know I never authorised her to enter into any financial transactions on the account, but when she had a theft a couple of years ago, although the car was recovered it was damaged and so I authorised the insurers to speak to her about inspecting the vehicle and arranging the repairs under the policy.

 

Is it credible to accept that they have no trace of the key phone call, nor of two important letters? And how likely is their claim that my ex was entitled to take out a policy in my name? (My ex by the way insists that she did ask them to change into her name and her address).

 

Any suggestions would be most welcome!

[rebel11]

Hi Matt

 

You could send them a SAR request, it will cost £10, they will send you all the data they have on the account, it will take 40 days. I would get that first, before I do anything else.

'What they are saying is that my ex g/f renewed the policy and they had no reason not to accept her authority.' - what about Data Protection, have they breached Data Protection? - you need to establish that, I had to send a letter to say I

could talk to an insurance company about a relative.

Once I've got all the Data, a Complaint to the CEO, the FOS and the ICO.

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/

http://www.ico.gov.uk/

[Matt63]

Thanks, I have certainly learnt a lot about insurance as result of this. I had never heard of the concept of "insurable interest" and I had never realised that if an insurance company cancels a policy mid-way through the year and a claim has already been paid then they still expect the full-year's premium to be paid. Certainly these concepts do not appear on the Meerkat advert! Indeed it took me a several weeks to realise what might have happened and my first letter to them reflects my confusion but the letter did point out to them that there must have been a mistake somewhere. I was looking back at that letter this weekend and was thinking that i could have written it so much better with the benefit of what I know now. Nevertheless, had they responded to this letter at an early stage I am sure the confusion could have been sorted out and my ex g/f would still be a customer of theirs.

 

An interesting possibility has occurred to me overnight, in that my ex g/f is even less savvy with these sort of matters than I am. Several years ago we went on a shopping trip to London and we took my car. I asked her to get a congestion charge ticket from her local newsagent, and when she came out I realised that she had purchased a ticket for her registration number not mine. She said she had done nothing wrong as the man behind her counter had asked her what her registration number was. I explained to her that the ticket had to be for the car that was going into the congestion zone, she said she had paid the money and it would be OK. We argued about it for the rest of the day and refused to buy another ticket, so I had to!

 

The AA themselves say that she changed the address of the policy and said she said she was going to make payments on her debit card, it's not impossible that my ex g/f might have confused them (and indeed herself) when she phoned up to get the policy in her name. The only way to be sure is to request a transcript of that conversation.

 

Another interesting comment that the AA made was there appeared to be a lack of communication between my ex g/f and myself. Well, yes, obviously, that's what happens in these sort of circumstances!