Halifax OD - what can I do please? They refuse to stop charges or make arrangement

[huggy41]

first of all i would like to know how Halifax can send you a CCA when there is no such thing where overdrafts are the issue.????????????

[Bazooka Boo]

Not technically correct Huggy, they have part V exemptions, and there are a lot of threads on here which give advice about O/D and your rights to information regarding them, it is somewhat laborious though, so have a bottle of wine or full kettle to hand!

[Rocky Roadster]

Thanks everyone.

 

Been through the threads re ODs and CCAs and I am waiting for a response (any response) from Hfax.

Cheers,

[huggys boss]

I was going to post this yesterday, but got side tracked, but better late than never!

 

We have 2 accounts with Halifax, both with O/D's and we got into a mess with them when we went over and they started lumping the charges on.

 

Our first port of call was the branch manager, we wrote and tried to claim back all of the charges under the hardship rule, didn't use a template or anything, just a basic letter pointing out the mess we were in and asking for help. The branch manager couldn't help so passed the letters further up the chain to customer relations.

 

We DID NOT get ALL the charges back, but they did refund all charges applied from the date we started to get into trouble (the charges for going over our OD limit) and also credited our monthly fees back as one of the accounts was a rewards account.

 

We have had all charges frozen and are paying back what we owe at an amount we can afford. This was not as easy as it sounds as we refused to give an I/E and at first they were digging their heels in, but a really nice guy from customer relations helped to sort it without an I/E.

 

 

It has not all been plain sailing, the computer keeps cancelling our repayment plan (possibly because of no I/E), but when we get a letter demanding full payment we ring customer relations and they sort it out.

 

I will PM the OP with the name and telephone number of the guy who has helped us. Sorry for not posting his details here but I would rather he didn't get bombarded with calls.

[Rocky Roadster]

Thanks a lot HB,

I will get in touch with your contact and see if we can sort a repayment plan out.

 

Cheers,

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi all,

Hfax have responded to my letters!

 

I requested a copy of our agreement, they didn't answer but cashed my p.o. so I raised an account in default and my complaint has finally been answered 4 months later. I seem to have woken them up a bit and they have taken the charges off at least.

 

I have posted my complaint letter and their response for interest and look forward to any comments / advice.

 

KSCN_3032012_145233.pdf

copy complaint to Hfax 03-12.pdf

[huggy41]

Excellent news rocky

[Bazooka Boo]

What a load of tripe....give with one hand and insist they are in the right..!

 

Good to see that you have been able to get the unenforceable charges/fees back, they wouldn't be able to claim these fees anyhow.

 

I am still extremely dismayed to read that they totally believe they are all above board and correct.

 

"You have given no valid reason for the dispute" ?? er hello, I'm the customer here, so if I say it is in dispute it ruddy well is, you dance to my tune sunshine not the other way round!

[Rocky Roadster]

Rocky is cross.

 

I have written to Hafilax restating my complaints that they have not answered i.e not replying to my letters, not supplying an agreement, no response to why they took no action for months, just piled charges on etc.

 

We shall see how they respond.

[Bazooka Boo]

Don't hold your breath....just give them the bad publicity they deserve, vote with your feet.

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi all,

 

They have replied, here is a precis:

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us further ..... I'm concerned to hear about what's happened. I have been unable to call you as you requested responses in writing. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused. (Ha)

 

I am sorry that you feel we were not sympathetic to your financial difficulties. We have attempted to contact you on several occasions to help you, however,as yet you have not responded.

 

Your account is closed and passed to Moorcrap, please contact them direct...

 

You state that you requested a copy of the agreement and paid £1 into your account. (No you paid my p.o. in) I am unable to identify exactly what you had requested (not my fault.I sent you a copy of my request which you have received), however we did not cash the £1 you paid in, the funds were credited to your account.

I can't find your previous complaints. (so? - nothing else to say?)

 

In regard to CCA.. the overdraft doesn't have a credit agreement, however you will have signed the terms and conditions when your account was opened. Unfortunately due to the length of time, I have been unable to obtain a copy.

 

Any change in the T&Cs supersedes the one you signed. As I am sure that you will be aware, you have benefited from the overdraft and therefore have to pay it back.

I am very keen that I have resolved your complaint fairly.

 

Copy of current terms and conditions enclosed.

 

Bull**** or what?

 

What due you think?

[Fred Bassett]

I love this statement: "you have benefited from the overdraft". Not half as much as them and their charges.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I'm sorry to say on this point the bank is right,

a ''letter of acceptance'' with Ts and Cs is produced

on the inception of an overdraft facility.

[Bazooka Boo]

Come on Brig, shallowfax are my favourite bank to lock horns with, don't let them get off so easy!

 

IMO this isn't over by a long chalk, yes OD's are not subject to the CCA, but they only have part V exemptions, they still need to supply you with the agreement they gave you in order for them to allow you to have an OD.

 

That single sentence "Unfortunately due to the length of time, I have been unable to obtain a copy." to me is IMO the same as a CCA request whereby they respond with the same comment. Is it not? ie. that the reaction to that comment is "put up or shut up".....?...?

 

Besides that, how much of the OD is charges?

[Guest]

o/d's can become subject to the cc act as running credit. the act itself provides examples. even the requirement for a def notice could then be applicable ie 'if by reason of any breach....etc'.

o/d's since the consumer credit directives require a proper cca 'agreement' and would be subject to a cca request.

prior, an o/d facility letter at the time containing the o/d terms may suffice. they would need to have claimed the exemption.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Ford

[brokebutnotbeatn]

See the legal forum where someone just won in court against NatWest with an overdraft. Great thread.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=241052&goto=newpost

[Rocky Roadster]

Thanks brokebutnotbeatn.

[Guest]

See the legal forum where someone just won in court against NatWest with an overdraft. Great thread.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=241052&goto=newpost

 

and, this is the 'determination' referred to/relied on there?

THE DETERMINATION:

 

The Determination (which is signed by the Director of Fair Trading) is made under section 74(3) of the Act. I set it out in full:

 

"1. Under the powers conferred upon me by s.74(3) and (3A) and s.133 of the Consumer Credit 1974, I, the Director General, being satisfied that it would not be against the public interest to do so, hereby revoke with effect from 1st February 1990 the Determination made by me in respect of Section 74(1)(b) and dated 3 November 1983 and now determine that with effect from 1st February 1990 Section 74(1)(b) shall apply to every debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, under which the creditor is a bank.

2. This Determination is made subject to the following conditions:-

(a) that the creditor shall have informed my Office in writing of his general intention to enter into agreements to which the Determination will apply;

(b) that where there is an agreement between a creditor and a debtor for the granting of credit in the form of an advance on a current account, the debtor shall be informed at the time or before the agreement is concluded:

- of the credit limit, if any,

- of the annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended,

- of the procedure for terminating the agreement;

and this information shall be confirmed in writing.

© that where a debtor overdraws his current account with the tacit agreement of the creditor and that account remains overdrawn for more than 3 months, the creditor must inform the debtor in writing not later than 7 days after the end of that 3 month period of the annual rate of interest and charges applicable.

3. In this Determination the terms 'creditor' and 'debtor' shall have the meanings assigned to them respectively by Section 189 of [the Act]. The term 'bank' includes the Bank of England and banks within the meaning of the Bankers' Books Evidence Act 1879 as amended."

Edited May 4, 2012 by Ford

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi all,

I have written to Hafilax asking for responses to my complaints and providing boxes against each point for their answers!

 

I have also thanked them for their "Getting Started" booklet with account T&Cs and stated that "as it is not a true copy of any agreement, as requested, then I suggest that is is therefore unenforceable".

 

What do you think?

 

Still getting litigation threats from Moorcrap.

[Bazooka Boo]

Still getting litigation threats from Moorcrap.

 

And that is all they will ever be, "threats", Moorcr@p couldn't run a bath let alone be successful in their corrupt industry.

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi folks,

Interesting challenge from hafilax, who are chasing this one through Wastecot.

 

"In addition, you believe that we are acting unlawfully by allowing our recovery agents to visit your property. I must assure you that we act within the law and they will call your property if they are unable to make contact in regards to the debt outstanding."

 

Also:

"In order to clarify the dispute you hold in regards to the Consumer Credit Act, I must advise that this Act covers products with a credit agreement, for example credit cards. Overdrafts are not covered under such an agreement therefore we are under no legal obligation to provide you with a copy of your true agreement."

 

Hafilax customer services

 

Apparently their final reply was 2nd March so "You have 6 months from this date to complain to FOS". ie September 2nd? letter was dated 30th August and received 8th September. I thought this was ongoing. The March letter says "Hafilax will not enter into further correspondence with you in regards to this matter", but they have, so have I missed the deadline or not?

 

Life goes on. Feeling a bit stronger. Grateful for all CAG help.

 

Cheers,

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes OD are not covered by the CCA per se, they have part V exemptions, but there will still be some sort of formal arrangement between you and the bank.

 

However, how much of this OD is inflated by their fees and charges?

Ever thought about reclaiming them?

 

So is this the same account that Moorcr@p had?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

An Acknoledgment and or acceptance of the facility is usually written uo.

Of course the recovery agents CAN call but you do not have to let them on your property

or talk to them.

[Rocky Roadster]

Hi,

This is the same account that Morecrap were chasing, and when it was passed to Wastecot I sent a dispute letter which was passed to Hafilax, hence their reply.

 

Hafilax formally closed the account in April, and passed it to Morecrap.

 

I will remind Wastecoat of the response that they will get if they call at our property.

 

Cheers,