Access to bank accounts by JCP and/or local council

[jared]

Hi there

 

My first post so please forgive me if this subject has already been covered

 

Does anyone know whether JCP and/or local councils have the right to access all your bank account when you try to claim JSA and/or council tax rebates?

 

A friend of mine claims she supplied them with a statement from one of her bank accounts and they came back to her with an alternative figure which matched her combined savings from her 2 bank accounts (the total figure was under the threshold anyway, so she was entitled to full JSA and council tax rebate anyway, but was stunned that they could access her 2nd bank account)

[maroondevo52]

Hello and Welcome,

 

I've moved this thread to the appropriate Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[Nystagmite]

Did she give permission? I had to because I was being messed about with bank statements.

[jared]

Hi Nystagmite

 

Thanks for quick response; no, as far as she led me to believe she only handed over a recent 3-month statement of one of her bank accounts, as requested, and give no authorisation for any further access

[jojopo000]

Hi, as far as I am aware they do and can access your bank accounts. I know this from prior dealings with them but I think they have to have reason to do so.

[jared]

Hi jojopo000

 

Thanks for your response; I still can't believe they can legally access a bank account for which they have been given absolutely no details of in terms of bank, account number, sort code etc. Surely they can't ask every bank if a specific person holds an account with them

 

However, I recently heard from one source who claimed that, if you give them details of one bank account, they can search 10 years back into this account and look for payments to/from another account(s); they can then access the other account(s) this way.

 

Not sure if this is the case for my friend, I'll need to ask her

Edited September 1, 2011 by jared

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

I take it both accounts were with the same bank ?

[jared]

Hi maroondevo52,

 

No, both accounts were with totally different banks, one was RBS and the other ING

[maroondevo52]

Hi maroondevo52,

 

No, both accounts were with totally different banks, one was RBS and the other ING

 

That surprises me, though I must admit I don't know much about how JCP and Local Councils operate.

[backofbeyond]

Obviously I know this is nothing to do with fraud BUT I watched an episode of the BBC series "Saints and Scroungers" a couple of months back and on there the councils fraud department were accessing details of bank accounts etc and that is how they caught a lot of people out. I presume if one department has access to them others would too? Just a thought.

[caledfwlch]

This will be the new thing, checking credit files and so on, to try and catch out fraudsters.

[jared]

maroondevo52, backofbeyond and caledfwlch

 

thanks for your responses; while I have no objection to public bodies taking all reasonable steps to prevent fraud, I just cannot understand what possible legal mechanism could be employed to allow any organisation to access details in a bank account with the only information available being a name and address and with no prior knowledge of Bank, branch, sort code etc; surely, even checking credit files won't flag up any useful info?

[caledfwlch]

maroondevo52, backofbeyond and caledfwlch

 

thanks for your responses; while I have no objection to public bodies taking all reasonable steps to prevent fraud, I just cannot understand what possible legal mechanism could be employed to allow any organisation to access details in a bank account with the only information available being a name and address and with no prior knowledge of Bank, branch, sort code etc; surely, even checking credit files won't flag up any useful info?

 

The same way any debt collector, or finance institution does. They check your credit file, which will show up any accounts you hold.

[antone]

This is puzzling. It's been well over a year since I worked for the DWP, but in general the staff cannot directly access your bank account. Obviously they need to know the acct number and sort code in order to make any payments, and they can ask to see statements if the rules require it. But they can't just call up and ask for Joe Bloggs's bank balance on a whim.

 

Now I understand that there is talk of using credit reference agencies for fraud prevention and so on, so maybe it's changed. And of course, fraud investigators have extra powers, as we'd expect, but those guys aren't involved in the routine processing of claims.

[sadone]

Nowadays all claimants are credit checked by outside agencies as routine, and so they have a complete overall view of all your bank accounts, savings accounts and debts and linking addresses etc. Since the current government seems obsessed with benefit fraud (despite the largest amount of money wasted goes in clerical error rather then actual fraud) they've been farming out claimants info to private companies to do this before any payments are made.

 

It seems these days that If you want any help from the government ie benefits, single persons council tax reduction, working tax credits, then you sign away your privacy and you must expect to be credit checked.

 

Pity they don't treat politicians this way.

[antone]

Nowadays all claimants are credit checked by outside agencies as routine, and so they have a complete overall view of all your bank accounts, savings accounts and debts and linking addresses etc. Since the current government seems obsessed with benefit fraud (despite the largest amount of money wasted goes in clerical error rather then actual fraud) they've been farming out claimants info to private companies to do this before any payments are made.

 

It seems these days that If you want any help from the government ie benefits, single persons council tax reduction, working tax credits, then you sign away your privacy and you must expect to be credit checked.

 

Pity they don't treat politicians this way.

 

Interesting to know, thanks. I knew there was talk of this.

 

Wonder if they do check MPs. There would be a legitimate purpose to do so - you can't be an MP if you're bankrupt.

[sadone]

They're not worried about bankruptcy they're only worried about nosing into benefit claimants money It seems. MP's have been getting away with murder for years now, and despite some of them being recently taken to task over claiming false expenses, reports have come out saying many have reverted to their 'old ways' so to speak. Not surprising really considering who's running the country now.

 

'Great Britain, run by the rich for the rich'....

[Feebee_71]

Your friend would have had to declare all bank accounts held for her (and a partner if she has one) and give details of the balances of all accounts under each catagory (they separate bank and building society accounts) even if they are not in a positive balance - if she had one account with £300 in credit and another account with an overdraft of £200 then her combined balance would be £100 but they would ask for proof of both accounts - at least that's how I read the forms when I filled them in a few months ago!!

 

Feebee_71

[jared]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback: have just discovered a link which would indeed suggest almost draconian powers to investigate JSA/council tax rebate claims: haven't done 10 posts yet so not allowed to post link but its dwp.gov.uk/docs/cop-ssfa.pdf

[sadone]

There you go...http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/cop-ssfa.pdf

[jared]

Cheers sadone

[id6052]

Can DWP/Councils access people's bank accounts when they claim benefit?

 

The basic answer is normally "no".

 

The powers available under the SSFA can only be used by authorised officers who are senior investigations staff. They are only permitted to use such powers where there is a reasonable ground to do so and there is not really an alternative avenue to obtain information, e.g. benefit fraud cases.

 

When a person claims benefit, they will normally be asked for details of their bank accounts and the balances in the accounts.

 

If a person declares that they have 2 bank accounts, but only provides statements for one account, the DWP/Council may decide to either request statements for the second account he claimant or they may choose to accept the balances provided by the claimant. The latter sounds like what has happened in this case.

[sadone]

But a credit check will show all accounts and their balances without having to ask for any bank statements in person.

Camerons been pushing for an increase in this actively for some time now.

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-2006472/New-credit-checks-trap-benefit-fraudsters.html

[jared]

Hi id6052

 

Thanks for response but she only told them about one bank account

 

Hi sadone

 

I can't accept that they can simply request a credit check and bingo! obtain the balance and details of every account; since I have no knowledge of credit checks, I simply assumed they only existed to record payment defaults and the like from finance companies!

Edited September 1, 2011 by jared
mi

[sadone]

Well the government has given the DWP full powers to check everyone who claims benefits via private credit agencies in a push to stop fraud. This proposal (like in the article above) was all over the net and is old news now.

 

Thats why those who have working tax credit have been waiting far longer then normal for their renewals to be processed as all this extra checking is slowly processing claims down to an incredible amount.