The heat is on............SKB vs Bcard

[skbuncks]

My response, well I will accept it as a partial payment only. As for the amount I dont quite know how they have arrived at it. By my reconning I have been charged 11 times since may 2004 and estimated at 18 times between april 2001 and may 2004. The £110 divided by 8 is 13.75?? as all my charges have been for £20 pounds it would seem their maths just doesnt add up.

Ok, I've gone through my statements several more times and there are definetely only 11 £20 charges from may 04 to Now.

 

Additionally it would seem I have only been charged twice between april 2001 and may 2004. This i find very, very hard to believe as this was when I was at my worst with regard to charges.

For additional info I have a credit report from experian which I obtained in Oct 2002 which lists my payment history with barclaycard. Now according to the report there were 31 missed payments between dec 1998 and Nov 2002, with 12 from April 2001 to Nov 2002. If we take it as said for now that Bcard werent charging before April 2001 then I have missed 12 payments in the period april 01 to Nov 02 alone so unless they werent charging me for these missed payments then there offer is way way off.

Think what im gunna have to do is either wait for the microfiche b*llocks to sort itself out or request a couple of statements which by reference to my credit report should have charges on them.

Out of shear idle curiousty and a fair dose of distrustful suspicion im gunna request a couple from pre April 2001 that I reckon should have charges on, and if they do boy are bcard gunna be in trouble

Am also gunna obtain a new credit report and see if I can tally up charges on statements with payment history info from the report, if this works could then use it as a more accurate basis for charge estimation

 

skb

[Rumblestrips]

Wow...looks like you're going to have your work cut out.

 

As for the microfiche debacle thinks its gonna be a case of waiting for godot!!!

 

Luckily I didnt have to deal with that as only had account since 2004 but during this time they managed to charge me a whopping 29 times!!

 

You mentioned before that my interest seemed a bit low but have double checked with the other spreadsheet you posted and think its correct. £564 + £116.41 in interest at 19.9% (puchase rate). The compounded bit confuses me but think its right?? Really want to get it right before I send the letter off!

 

Thanks

[noomill060]

Like your thinking with regards to using your credit report to discover missed payments and deducing charges from it.

 

Havent heard of that idea before. Good one.

[skbuncks]

Hi Kathryn

AS youve only been going since 2004 its probably right. all compound interest means is that say you have a £20 charge at 19.9 % APR. After 1 month it will be £20.30. Interest is then charged on £20.30 for the second month so the amount then becomes £20.61. After twentyfour months the total is £28.32 and the interest for that month would be 0.43p. So note that the interest for the first month was 27p and the interest for the 25 month is 43p. If the interest didnt compound you would just charge 27p interest a month. Obviously compounding the interest makes the total we can claim higher than not compounding

For example

£20 over 24 months not compounded £27.20

£20 over 24 months compounded £28.75

This is how the CCC's charge interest so we can do it right back at em

 

skb

[skbuncks]

Im playing at night owl tonight and since at the stroke of midnight I got paid i've just fired off my onlline requests for my statutory credit reports from equifax and experian. A fine example of section 7 of the DPA allowing us to get these for just £2 each.

They have a legal obligation to deliver these within 7 days so pretty soon I should be able to see whether we can tally the payment history on the report with instances of being charged. Cant wait. Hopefully this will give us a way round the old microfiche baloney

 

skb

[skbuncks]

Would appear that you can tally late payments from Credit file with charges but not exceeding limit. However given ICO ruling on bcard mfish would seem we can now get our statements. Must keep reminding myself to get round to complaining to ICO to make sure bcard cough up.

 

12 working days plus 30 calender days have now passed since CCA request for true copy of agreement without even a whisper from bcard, so they are now in default and have commited a criminal offence. Naughty little blighters.

[skbuncks]

Letter to bcard

 

F.A.O. Data Controller

 

Contravention of the Sixth Data Protection Principle.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam.

 

I submitted a Subject Access Request (S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) to Barclaycard on 25th Sept 2006 and made specific reference to bank statements and to charges levied on my account. Barclaycard responded by confirming that it would supply me with information from my bank statements from May 2004 onwards; however statements prior to this date would only be provided at a cost of £3 per sheet. Barclaycard went on to explain that this was because these older statements were only stored on microfiche which is not a relevant filing system for the purposes of the Act so did not have to be provided as part of a SAR.

 

Following a recent visit to Barclaycard the Information Commissioners Office (Information Commissioners Office) have concluded that the microfiche system used by Barclaycard is a relevant filing system for the purposes of the Data Protection Act. This means that the information I requested is personal data and should have been supplied as part of my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) within 40 days and for a maximum fee of £10. As a result it is likely Barclaycard have contravened the sixth data protection principle, as this requires data controllers to process personal data in accordance with data subjects' rights.

 

The Information Commissioners Office has informed Barclaycard of the outcome of their investigation and I now write to demand compliance with my SAR. You have 14 days to supply the information requested before legal action will ensue for the supply of these statements and compensation as permitted by section 13 of the act. A complaint has also been forwarded to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Gary

 

skb

[noomill060]

skbunks-

 

As the debt is now totally unenforceable you can stop worrying about the statements.

 

The debt is unenforcable as both you and Barclaycrud are unable to produce a copy of the agreement, so any statements from this now defunct credit agrement are now legally meaningless, as would any attempt to reclaim any charges through the courts.

[skbuncks]

I beg to differ,

Failure to supply the original document renders the agreement unenforceable not the debt. The contract is therefore no longer enforceable ie the terms of that contract relating to dates of payments interest rates and charges etc. I have however still received money from them which can be proved through my statements. Bcard is therefore entitled to recover that money in the law of restitution as oppose to contract law. If I was to stop payments they could, in theory, apply to the courts to enforce the debt. Also if at any time they were to come up with the contract the agreement would become immediately enforceable

 

However as Bcard have gone past the 42 day deadline they are in default and have commited a criminal offence, this can be used as leverage to force an early settlement for repayment of charges, and is some cases (dependent upon the size of the debt) to 'write off' the outstanding balance of the card. An important thing to remember is that without an agreement their charges are completely indefensible so they wouldnt have a hope in hell of defending them in court

 

skb

[special_k]

Also keen to know how you get on with this SKB,

 

Similar to you, I am going after Barclaycard and Lloyds at the same time.

 

I had sent my prelim and was going to base on estimated charges but that was before the microfiche ruling so I asked them again for my statements.

[skbuncks]

Hi special

 

Im still waiting for statements and have had no response to my letter requesting them, im note gunna be able to file a claim until the new year anyway so am not in anby mega rush to get them, if I can find the time i'll give them a call to see if i can speed them up.

On the lloyds front i've noticed that they seem to paying out on new claims a lot quicker than they have in the past but I dont hold out much hope of seeing any cash before february

 

skb

[pobat]

I asked for a signed copy of contract via a SAR (they haven't sent it yet) but your thread says send a CCA request.

Oh well, at least it gives them 12 days rather than 40 to send it;).

[skbuncks]

Have been skint for the last few months so have let this claim slide a bit since I couldn't afford to submit a claim. After a success against Lloyd's earlier today can now finally afford it.

I now need to follow up on DPA non compliance and CCA non compliance then im ready to go. Want my court claim in by the end of the month before i spend all my money so watch out bcard cos im gunning for your ass

 

skb

[Micky the Hippo]

good thread skbuncks, I like the narrative ones, keep it up

[skbuncks]

Cheers Micky, almost there now (ish)

 

The supply of statements saga continued for some time. I sent them a letter basically saying come on lads the ICO has said microfiche is relevant so give me my statements. Now.

In response, and I found this very very annoying, they merely sent me my letter back with a compliments slip attached with the words "No cheque attached" blazened across it. I was not amused so sent them this:

 

IMPORTANT

 

PLEASE READ

 

 

 

Contravention of the Sixth Data Protection Principle

 

 

I have spelled this out in large letters for you seem to have missed the point of my previous letter dated 16th Feb 2007. Your assertion that I neglected to enclose a cheque for my missing data clearly tells me that you have either failed completely to actually read the letter you were sent or that you have absolutely no understanding of the Subject Access Request (SAR) process as per the Data Protection Act.

 

I will therefore attempt to explain the situation once more in the plainest English at my command:

 

1 I sent a properly formatted SAR on the 25th September 2006 along with a cheque for £10 which was CASHED BY YOURSELVES ON 30th OCTOBER 2006

 

2 I received Partial data from you on the 5th October 2006 along with a letter explaining that data held prior to May 2004 was held on Microfiche and hence was not a relevant filling system for the purposes of the DPA. A copy of this letter is attached.

 

3 Following a visit to Barclaycard the Information Commissioners Office (ICO) have concluded that the microfiche system used by Barclaycard is a RELEVANT FILING SYSTEM FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE DATA PROTECTION ACT.

 

4 BARCLAYCARD HAVE THEREFORE CONTRAVENED THE SIXTH DATA PROTECTION PRINCIPLE, as this requires data controllers to process personal data in accordance with data subjects' rights.

 

5 As per my letter dated 16th Feb 2007 I requested the supply of MY data as per the findings of the ICO and in accordance with my original Subject Access Request WHICH I HAVE ALREADY PAID FOR. A copy of this letter is attached.

 

6 You rebuff my request (response received 1st March 2007) stating that no cheque is enclosed despite the fact THAT I HAVE ALREADY PAID. A copy of your rebuttal is attached.

 

What I now require to resolve the situation:

 

1 You to actually read the letters you are sent.

 

2 The supply the information requested in the original SAR, i.e. a list of ALL transactions AND charges related to my credit card account from September 2000 to September 2006.

 

Further actions I have taken / will take:

 

1 You have now been reported to the Information Commissioners Office for you non-compliance.

 

2 If in 10 Working days from the receipt of this letter the requested information is still unforthcoming then a country court claim will be filed against you.

 

 

This seemed to do the job in that they have now sent me statements from june 2001 to may 2004. Still missing anything prior to june 2001, now I knoww that bcard assert that they did not charge before this but im unsure whether or not I believe them. Does anyone have any evidence of charging before april 2001???

 

The really disappoining thing about this is that the number of charges for this period is nowhere near my estimate. Bcard in all there ultimate glory and wisdom have on numerous occasions during this time NOT charged me for late payments and exceeding limits. I am quite frankly very disappointed in them, when I commit these transgressions I expect to penalised so that I can then have the gratification of claiming it back.

Between june 2001 and may 2004 I was charged a measely 2 times and not my estimated 18 times. Why o Why didnt I file against them with an estimated claim. Still the silver lining is that my court fees will be considerably less when I file in a couple of weeks.

 

skb

[skbuncks]

My next steps:

Update my schedule of charges. I am still going for contractual interest, but whereas before I was just going for 17 or so % what im going to do is apply the rate of interest for each charge that was applied when the charge was debited upto such a time when the rate of interest increased. The new higher rate will then be applied. This is because the rate bcard charge has increased over time from 17.5 % to the 24.9 % that im paying now.

[skbuncks]

Update on my CCA request for signed contract.

 

Bcard have still to date not responded to a single letter I have sent them asking for this. Not a peep, not a whistle. I take this as firm evidence they dont have the contract. When I get the time I will have to make the effort to report them to the relevant institutions.

 

skb

[Micky the Hippo]

I'm the know nothing greenhorn here but I think I've read a few times that when charging CI, the current rate can be used throughout

 

I've sent out fresh SARs today asking NW and Barclays for statements back to the 12 years and 1992, sadly I saw the whizzy para from bong a bit too late although I did specifically ask for statements back to the relevant year(s)

 

It'll have to act as a first effort I suppose, I'd be far to frightened to go for CI on stuff that old, my oldest six year charge of £20 in Aug2000 attracted £95 in CI interest alone, never mind the interest on the charge and the CI interest on that, the routine charges for years 6-12 with CI would go way into five figures

[make_me_happy]

Any news on this?

[maxine989]

they have now sent me statements from june 2001 to may 2004.

 

skb

 

Hiya... just wanted to ask...

 

You say you got your statements up to May 04... were the ones after that OK? The ones after May 04...? Were any of them a bit dodgy looking... with zero as your balance showing no transactions??

 

I am asking this because I have been battling to get my statements from Barclaycard since Nov 06... and they are trying fob me off for some of the dates with fake looking statements... ones that have nothing on them... no balance and no tranactions.

 

I think they have lost some data and really can not retrieve it and so are hoping I don't notice all the zero's on some of my statements.

 

Take a look at my thread... the last few pages. See what you think.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/49090-maxine-barclaycard-6.html

 

cheers...

 

Good luck with your claim.

 

Maxine

[skbuncks]

Any news on this?

 

Being of a generally lazy disposition I have done nothing on this for some time. Seems that every time I get around to filing the N1 its towards the end of the month and my wages have been spent. Am going to make every effort to get this done next pay day so should really send off a reminder LBA sometime soon, just to show how reasonable I am.

 

 

skb:|