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    • Hi, we are looking to get some opinions on weather or not to bother fighting this PCN. This comes from a very big retail park parking where there are restaurants, hotel, amongst other businesses. The parking is free but I suppose there must be a time limit on it that I am not aware of. We were in the area for around 4 hours. Makes us wonder how they deal with people staying in the hotel as the ANPR is on what appears to be a publicly maintained street (where london buses run) which leads to the different parking areas including the hotel.  1 Date of the infringement 26/05/2024 2 Date on the NTK  31/05/2024 3 Date received 07/06/2024 4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  YES 5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Entry and exit photos however, based on the photographs we are almost sure the photos are taken on public street. This is the location I believe photos are taken from.  https://maps.app.goo.gl/eii8zSmFFhVZDRpbA 6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A 7 Who is the parking company? UKPA. UK Parking Administration LTD 8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] The Colonnades, Croydon, CR0 4RQ For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. British Parking Association (BPA) Thanks in advance for any assistance.  UKPA PCN The Collonades-redacted.pdf
    • Thank you for posting their WS. If we start with the actual WS made by the director one would have doubts that they had even read PoFA let alone understood it. Point 10  we only have the word of the director that the contract has been extended. I should have had the corroboration of the Client. Point 12 The Judge HHJ Simkiss was not the usual Judge on motoring cases and his decisions on the necessity of contracts did not align with PoFA. In Schedule 4 [1[ it is quite clearly spelt out- “relevant contract” means a contract (including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land) between the driver and a person who is—(a)the owner or occupier of the land; or (b authorised, under or  by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land; And the laughable piece of paper from the land owners cannot be described as a contract. I respectfully ask that the case be dismissed as there is no contract. WE do not even know what the parking regulations are which is really basic. It is respectfully asked that without a valid contract the case cannot continue. One would imagine that were there a valid contract it would have been produced.  So the contract that Bank has with the motorist must come from the landowner. Bank on their own cannot impose their own contract. How could a director of a parking company sign a Statement of Truth which included Point 11. Point 14. There is no offer of a contract at the entrance to the car park. Doubtful if it is even an offer to treat. The entrance sign sign does not comply with the IPC Code of Conduct nor is there any indication that ANPR cameras are in force. A major fault and breach of GDPR. Despite the lack of being offered a contract at the entrance [and how anyone could see what was offered by way of a contract in the car park is impossible owing to none of the signs in the WS being at all legible] payment was made for the car to park. A young person in the car made the payment. But before they did that, they helped an elderly lady to make her payment as she was having difficulty. After arranging payment for the lady the young lad made his payment right behind. Unfortunately he entered the old lady's number again rather than paying .for the car he was in. This can be confirmed by looking at the Allow List print out on page 25. The defendant's car arrived at 12.49 and at 12.51 and 12.52  there are two payments for the same vrm. This was also remarked on by the IPC adjudicator when the PCN was appealed.  So it is quite disgraceful that Bank have continued to pursue the Defendant knowing that it was a question of  entering the wrong vrm.  Point 21 The Defendant is not obliged to name the driver, they are only invited to do so under S9[2][e]. Also it is unreasonable to assume that the keeper is the driver. The Courts do not do that for good reason. The keeper in this case does not have a driving licence. Point 22. The Defendant DID make a further appeal which though it was also turned down their reply was very telling and should have led to the charge being dropped were the company not greedy and willing to pursue the Defendant regardless of the evidence they had in their own hands. Point 23 [111] it's a bit rich asking the Defendant to act justly and at proportionate cost while acting completely unjustly themselves and then adding an unlawful 70% on to the invoice. This  is despite PoFA S4[5] (5)The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 9[2][d].  Point 23 [1v] the Director can deny all he wants but the PCN does not comply with PoFA. S9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN only quotes the ANPR arrival and departure times which obviously includes a fair amount of driving between the two cameras. Plus the driver and passengers are a mixture of disabled and aged persons who require more time than just a young fit single driver to exit the car and later re enter. So the ANPR times cannot be the same as the required parking period as stipulated in the ACT. Moreover in S9[2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; You will note that in the PCN the words in parentheses are not included but at the start of Section 9 the word "must" is included. As there are two faults in the PCN it follows that Bank cannot pursue the keeper . And as the driver does not have a driving licence their case must fail on that alone. And that is not even taking into consideration that the payment was made. Point 23 [v] your company is wrong a payment was made. very difficult to prove a cash payment two weeks later when the PCN arrives. However the evidence was in your print out for anyone to see had they actually done due diligence prior to writing to the DVLA. Indeed as the Defendant had paid there was no reasonable cause to have applied for the keeper details. Point 24 the Defendant did not breach the contract. The PCN claimed the Defendant failed to make a payment when they had made a payment.   I haven't finished yet but that is something to start with
    • You don't appeal to anyone. You haven't' received a demand from a statutory body like the council, the police or the courts. It's just a dodgy cowboy company trying it on. You simply don't pay.  In the vast majority of these cases the company deforest the Amazon with threats about how they are going to divert a drone from Ukraine and make it land on your home - but in the end they do nothing.
    • honestly you sound like you work the claimant yes affixed dont appeal to anyone no cant be “argued either way”  
    • Because of the tsunami of cases we are having for this scam site, over the weekend I had a look at MET cases we have here stretching back to June 2014.  Yes, ten years. MET have not once had the guts to put a case in front of a judge. In about 5% of cases they have issued court papers in the hope that the motorist will be terrified of going to court and will give in.  However, when the motorist defended, it was MET who bottled it.  Every time.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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LTSB sar and found PPI was selected - but not by me!


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A SoT can be a Defence or a WS...considering you have already submitted a defence then I would assume a WS AS.

 

I haven't submitted a defence andy, I have made a claim which they have defended and applied for a strike out. The J told me I must make a statement of truth and submit supporting evidence to my claim of section 32 (1) Limitations Act.

 

This is where I am unsure.

 

Is it

a) WS with supporting evidence,

b) a Statment of Case with evidence,

or

c) an order under rule 18.1 to provide further information? :|

 

All I remember from the court was her saying provide a statement of truth and supporting evidence, it was all a bit of a blur tbh.

 

Thanks for any guidance

 

AS

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Apologies AS I cant recall all the defence and claims Im subbed to.:roll:

 

Ok it will be a Statement of Case with evidence.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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PS. Dont forget the fact that she awarded costs on a failed application...dont let that rest.

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PS. Dont forget the fact that she awarded costs on a failed application...dont let that rest.

 

I will remember to bring it up in the next hearing :-)

 

Back to SoC... does this look right andy? Also have added a point I am still unclear on - 14.

 

IN THE WORCESTER COUNTY COURT

BETWEEN:

XXXXX XXXXXXX

Claimant

- and –

Lloyds TSB

Defendant

CASE No. XXXXXXX

***************

STATEMENT OF CASE

 

I, XXXX of XXXXXX XXXXX XXXXXX WILL SAY AS FOLLOWS :

1. I am the claimant and litigant in person in this case and I include evidence with my Witness Statement, marked WS2.

 

2. I give this statement and evidence in support of my claim not being time barred by virtue of section 32 (1) of The Limitations Act as shown on my Particulars of Claim paragraph 30.

 

3. I did not know prior to April 2011 that late fee charges could be challenged. It was around April 2011, through various media and news, that I discovered late payment penalty charges/fees that had been applied unfairly to my account by mistake could be challenged.

 

4. As a consequence of discovering the above information I made a subject access request (SAR), dated 1st April 2011, for personal information, in respect to my accounts held with the defendant.

 

5. In response to my informational request the defendant sent me statements from 2004 onwards, claiming that statements prior to May 2004 were no longer available. I also received a poor quality copy of my credit card agreement.

 

6. I include as evidence a copy of the agreement (WS2, page i) received from the defendant. Although of poor quality, it is clear enough to show the Card Payment Protection (PPI) section of the agreement has been altered to include PPI. Through this alteration the defendant has mistakenly included PPI (possibly fraudulently or negligently). I know it wasn't myself that altered the agreement and bring the Data Protection Act (DPA)1998, schedule 1, part 1, section 7 to the courts attention which states:

 

· Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

 

7. The defence claims in paragraph 3.2 of their defence, that the PPI was selected by myself. I am content to have the hand writing of the agreement analysed by an independent expert, as already requested by myself in my Allocation Questionnaire (WS2, pageii). I also include magnified areas of the agreement for the courts convenience and visual clarity on the differing hand writing involved (WS2, page iii).

 

8. I have never had, nor wanted, PPI on any of my accounts with the defendant, as evidenced by other financial agreements held with the defendant all declining the inclusion of PPI (WS2, page iv).

 

9. Notwithstanding the above points, the PPI would still have been applied to my account by mistake as I would have failed to meet the requirements to be accepted for PPI: I was paid by commission only and didn't have a permanent contract of employment. I would therefore put the defendant to strict proof of the PPI acceptance process.

 

10. As mentioned in paragraph 5 of this witness statement the defendant claimed on 9th June 2011 (WS2, page v) and again on the 29th July 2011 (WS2, page vi) that statements prior to May 2004 were no longer held on any of their systems and could no longer be provided.

 

11. At around this same time I had written to Credit Security Limited(CSL) (a debt collection agency who were acting on behalf of the defendant and actively pursuing the debt at the time), to explain I was awaiting to hear from their client in respect to my information. CSL then sent me my credit card statements on 8th August 2011 covering the time period prior to May 2004(WS2 page vii), statements that the defendant had twice already claimed were no longer available and not held on any of their systems.

 

12. The defendant again claimed the non-existence of my statements in reply to my 'letter before action' . The defendant responded on 25th June 2012 with the claim that they no longer held details of my credit card statements showing any details due to the passage of time (WS2, page viii) this was after I had received them via their representative and knew they did in fact exist.

 

13. The defendant includes in his defence an 'error' or false statement. The defendant offered a settlement amount in June 2012, as evidenced in paragraph 12, based on their 'best guess' as per information and rules set out by the Financial Ombudsman Services, the defendant claiming that credit card statements for that period are no longer available. The defence has claimed that the settlement offer letter to myself is headed 'Without Prejudice' and should not be brought into court proceedings. The defence has signed a Statement of Truth to this point. I have included the settlement letter which is not headed 'Without Prejudice' as the defence claims but who still signed a statement of truth that it is, demonstrating the defendants continued misrepresentations.

 

14. At paragraph 31 of the defence the defendant claims the balance owed by myself was written off on 22nd February 2010 and that I have suffered no loss as a result of the disputed charges. I enclose correspondence from the defendants representative (WS2 page ix) showing that the balance is actively pursued and that token payments have been made to the claimants representative after the date that it is claimed to have been written off. Further, that the defendant threatens court proceedings via their representative to take court action to recover the balance that the defendant claims was written off.

 

I believe that the facts stated in this Statement of Case are true

Signed XXXXXXXXX

 

Let me know if I should leave '14' out or not please andy.

 

Just have to get page numbers right for evidence WS2

 

Thanks

 

AS

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14 is a valid point I would let it remain.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just got a letter from SCM asking for my Witness Statement as they haven't got it yet.

Sent them a Statement of Case already :|

 

I hope that if I resend the Statement of Case renamed as 'Witness Statement' and covering letter explaining my error to both them and the court this will be ok?

 

Can someone confirm this please?

 

Thanks

 

AS

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Statement of Case is not a WS AS.SoC are usually referred to Particulars of Claim CPR 16 :-

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part16

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So sending it now as WS should be ok then?

 

AS

 

I would think so :)

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