Employment/Work and asscioated benefits woes

[lbruk]

I dont think she has been dismissed yet?

[Hacked_Off]

I dont think she has been dismissed yet?

 

Been into the branch and spoken to the organ grinders not the monkeys. The manager is disgusted with his staff. Luckily he used to work for the nhs and knows the score for being a mrsa carrier.

 

They are paying me for yesterday and today ad giving me next week of paid to calm down and stuff. I

 

He's suppose to be confirming this by email I will post up.

[johnvernon74]

Am I right in thinking you work for an agency? If so can they just not do what they want??

[Hacked_Off]

Am I right in thinking you work for an agency? If so can they just not do what they want??

 

Agency yes. And no they can't we do have some rights.

[lbruk]

happy ending then

[Hacked_Off]

happy ending then

 

Not really. The silly woman from hr is insisting I get ANOTHER doctors note which states " not contagious" the one I gave them said " there is no reason for x to be off work" this has been deemed not good enough. I will be entering a greivance at some point in the week. The whole thing is ridiculous.

 

I told the agency " those swabs were taken a month ago of I was a risk to others SURELY there would have been an outbreak by now?"

 

Not impressed with the union either they havnt even bothered to get back to me!!

 

I've been onto my mp to!!

[Browncow]

I dont think she has been dismissed yet?

 

When OP wrote "told not to come back" I thought she had been sacked.

 

Info about her right to claim for unfair dismissal might yet come in handy, if only as a warning to employer.

[BazzaS]

Not really. The silly woman from hr is insisting I get ANOTHER doctors note which states " not contagious" the one I gave them said " there is no reason for x to be off work" this has been deemed not good enough. I will be entering a greivance at some point in the week. The whole thing is ridiculous.

 

I told the agency " those swabs were taken a month ago of I was a risk to others SURELY there would have been an outbreak by now?"

 

Not impressed with the union either they havnt even bothered to get back to me!!

 

I've been onto my mp to!!

 

I'm assuming you aren't a health care worker. If you are, they might be right to say "no work with direct patient contact" until you have cleared the MRSA (though they should then offer you any work that doesn't involve direct patient contact)

 

If you aren't a healthcare worker : Does the employer have an Occupational Health dept., or a contracted Occupational Health provider?.

It seems that HR are making assumptions about an occupational health issue, and ignoring advice that comes from outside their firm.

Sometimes the way around this is to get the same advice, but from "inside" the firm ; they might then start listening to it!.

 

The HR people might not appreciate the other approach ... Point out that you have been MRSA screened, found positive, and treated (decolonisation treatment). You were screened because you were having an op, but otherwise could have been walking around with MRSA and no-one would have known. They too might be walking around with MRSA and no-one knows.

 

Where is their result showing they aren't MRSA positive?. They haven't had decolonisation treatment, so how do you know they are not a greater risk (to their colleagues, and to you being able to get your operation). What is to say you didn't acquire MRSA from them, or from someone that got it from them?.

You might be less of a risk than them, as you've had decolonisation treatment. Shouldn't they get tested, or be off work until they've been tested?

 

(It's not hard, with a bit of knowledge or research on the issues, using logic, to find out enough to "tie in knots" people - like this HR person, who have no knowledge of the issues, and make snap decisions, not based on the facts, which are jut plain wrong).

[Hacked_Off]

I'm assuming you aren't a health care worker. If you are, they might be right to say "no work with direct patient contact" until you have cleared the MRSA (though they should then offer you any work that doesn't involve direct patient contact)

 

If you aren't a healthcare worker : Does the employer have an Occupational Health dept., or a contracted Occupational Health provider?.

It seems that HR are making assumptions about an occupational health issue, and ignoring advice that comes from outside their firm.

Sometimes the way around this is to get the same advice, but from "inside" the firm ; they might then start listening to it!.

 

The HR people might not appreciate the other approach ... Point out that you have been MRSA screened, found positive, and treated (decolonisation treatment). You were screened because you were having an op, but otherwise could have been walking around with MRSA and no-one would have known. They too might be walking around with MRSA and no-one knows.

 

Where is their result showing they aren't MRSA positive?. They haven't had decolonisation treatment, so how do you know they are not a greater risk (to their colleagues, and to you being able to get your operation). What is to say you didn't acquire MRSA from them, or from someone that got it from them?.

You might be less of a risk than them, as you've had decolonisation treatment. Shouldn't they get tested, or be off work until they've been tested?

 

(It's not hard, with a bit of knowledge or research on the issues, using logic, to find out enough to "tie in knots" people - like this HR person, who have no knowledge of the issues, and make snap decisions, not based on the facts, which are jut plain wrong).

 

 

I am not a health care worker I am a cleaner. Even if I were a health care worker it wouldn't matter. The nurse who did the swabs was positive and has been given all clear to work WITHIN A PRE OP CLINIC.

 

Yes I gave the branch manager the facts 40% of the population are carriers. I work with 200 people are they going to screen all of them and suspend 40% of the work force? I think not.

 

I've asked what medical advice they have received other than a google search and they insist it is down to me to prove I'm not a risk.

[Hacked_Off]

When OP wrote "told not to come back" I thought she had been sacked.

 

Info about her right to claim for unfair dismissal might yet come in handy, if only as a warning to employer.

 

I was told not to come back until I have another note.

[Hacked_Off]

When OP wrote "told not to come back" I thought she had been sacked.

 

Info about her right to claim for unfair dismissal might yet come in handy, if only as a warning to employer.

 

I was told not to come back until I have another note.

 

And yes thanks I told them about the unfair dissmisal/medical suspension they then went off and agreed to pay me. Another google search I suspect.

[Hacked_Off]

I also asked "and what medical qualification does this woman from hr have? None? The logic she is using is like saying I googled nose jobs now I'm a plastic surgeon"

[Hacked_Off]

Oh and hr woman said I was "allowed to finish my shift" now if they though I was such a risk why allow me to stay?

[BazzaS]

I am not a health care worker I am a cleaner. Even if I were a health care worker it wouldn't matter. The nurse who did the swabs was positive and has been given all clear to work WITHIN A PRE OP CLINIC.

 

Yes I gave the branch manager the facts 40% of the population are carriers. I work with 200 people are they going to screen all of them and suspend 40% of the work force? I think not.

 

I've asked what medical advice they have received other than a google search and they insist it is down to me to prove I'm not a risk.

 

If you want to challenge them on factual grounds, it's probably best that you get your facts correct.

If the nurse working in pre-op is MRSA positive, they should be taken off direct patient contact until decolonised ; per-op must be an area of hazard by definition : as the patients she is in contact with are all for surgery.

 

If you told the branch manager that 40% of people carry MRSA you need to go back to where you found that fact and check you haven't misread it (or they themselves haven't understood).

Between 25% to 33% of the population will have MSSA in their nose (one of the main sites for carriage) at any time. Some studies found the rate closer to 1 in 4 (25%), others 1in 3 ....

MSSA (meticillin sensitive Staphylococcus aureus) rather than MRSA (meticillin resistant).

The rates for MRSA are lower, though I haven't seen a good study for MRSA carriage rates in the healthy populace, only for hospital admissions.

Edited March 17, 2012 by BazzaS

[Hacked_Off]

If you want to challenge them on factual grounds, it's probably best that you get your facts correct.

If the nurse working in per-op is MRSA positive, they should be taken off direct patient contact until decolonised ; per-op must be an area of hazard by definition : as the patients she is in contact with are all for surgery.

 

If you told the branch mqnager

 

Infection control assured me it is ok for a nurse who has tested positive to be working with patients. A decolonisation kit is given to every patient to use 5 days before surgery.

[BazzaS]

Infection control assured me it is ok for a nurse who has tested positive to be working with patients. A decolonisation kit is given to every patient to use 5 days before surgery.

 

Any such decision is based on risk assessment, not "any nurse who has tested positive". The risk depends on what the nurse is doing, and the nature of the patients that the nurse is interacting with.

It might be acceptable for a nurse working in an out-patients unit ( but not a pre-op out-patients) nor an ICU. I maintain that a nurse working in pre-op works in a high risk area, as their patients are all going for operations, by definition.

[Hacked_Off]

Any such decision is based on risk assessment, not "any nurse who has tested positive". The risk depends on what the nurse is doing, and the nature of the patients that the nurse is interacting with.

It might be acceptable for a nurse working in an out-patients unit ( but not a pre-op out-patients) nor an ICU. I maintain that a nurse working in pre-op works in a high risk area, as their patients are all going for operations, by definition.

 

Well the nhs tell me different but then this is the nhs were talking about!!!

 

I didn't tell them 40% it was them who used that figure. Thanks for correcting that though I shall use that!

[BazzaS]

Well the nhs tell me different but then this is the nhs were talking about!!!

 

I didn't tell them 40% it was them who used that figure. Thanks for correcting that though I shall use that!

 

Confusing the 40% (actually 25-33%) nasal carriage rate for MSSA with the lower nasal carriage rate for MRSA is a common error, even by NHS staff.

I also found the same error on the website of the producer of a well known MRSA decolonisation agent (NOT Mupirocin/bactroban, by the way) - though they updated it when I pointed it out to them.

 

Go back to whoever gave you the figure, and ask them to check they didn't give you the figures for MSSA ..... an embarrassed silence might well follow. If they persist in their fallacious belief, point thm to http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heic/ID/mrsa/pdf/DP_lecture.pdf which shows the figures are for Staph. aureus, not MRSA, or http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22333007 which shows a (lower) figure for MSSA, but an even lower figure for MRSA (16.5% for MSSA vs 5.9% for MRSA), and that is for patients in a high risk group, rather than "healthy patients"

 

If they still persist in arguing the toss, suggest they then confirm which figure they are quoting (MRSA or MSSA) with their lead ICN (Infection Control Nurse) or ICD (IC Doctor) .....

 

Headed back to your situation, are you a cleaner in the healthcare environment? Or nothing to do with heathcare?

do you think you'll be able to point HR towards their Occupational Heath advice provider? (since, for a large firm, it is Occupational Health and / or the CCDC : [the Heath Protection Unit's Consultant in Communicable Disease Control] who'll have the contractual and statutory (respectively) responsibility to determine fitness to work relating to "communicable disease").

 

I doubt the CCDC will want to get involved, at least initially (MRSA isn't a notifiable disease after all), but they or their staff might be a useful resource none the less if the silliness persists, if your cleaning job takes you nowhere near a healthcare premises.

Edited March 17, 2012 by BazzaS

[Browncow]

Well the nhs tell me different but then this is the nhs were talking about!!!

 

I didn't tell them 40% it was them who used that figure. Thanks for correcting that though I shall use that!

 

How about this solution?

 

 

You give consent for them to obtain medical information from your GP, which would mean that GP could answer their questions about this condition only.

 

They continue to pay you full pay until they obtain the information they require to allow you to resume work.

 

 

Why not suggest this in an e-mail, as it sounds reasonable and would stand as proof that you tried to communicate and find as solution, if you have to take drastic action later?

[Hacked_Off]

How about this solution?

 

 

You give consent for them to obtain medical information from your GP, which would mean that GP could answer their questions about this condition only.

 

They continue to pay you full pay until they obtain the information they require to allow you to resume work.

 

M

Why not suggest this in an e-mail, as it sounds reasonable and would stand as proof that you tried to communicate and find as solution, if you have to take drastic action later?

 

They won't have it it's all being left to me.

 

Not being unreasonable at all

[Browncow]

They won't have it it's all being left to me.

 

Not being unreasonable at all

Then in my humble view they owe you full pay for every day you do not work because they are causing the delay and the situation centres on a health and safety issue.

 

Will the GP write anything more for you? He/she must have met this type of situation before? Is there a branch of the department of health that deals with contaigion?

[Hacked_Off]

Going to my doctors drop in Monday hopefully I'll get the one who's not a Moron.

[Hacked_Off]

Further to our meeting today I am happy to confirm the following:

 

Take next week off (on full pay) standard hours 39 x £6.50 will be paid to you.

 

If you please could go back to doctors/hospital and get something more concrete as in not contagious etc that would be perfect.

 

Kind regards

 

I've questioned the 6.50 given that the other cleaner is on more money than me!!!

[Browncow]

Further to our meeting today I am happy to confirm the following:

 

Take next week off (on full pay) standard hours 39 x £6.50 will be paid to you.

 

If you please could go back to doctors/hospital and get something more concrete as in not contagious etc that would be perfect.

 

Kind regards

 

I've questioned the 6.50 given that the other cleaner is on more money than me!!!

It is shaping up not too badly. Hope you get that pay rate revised - miserable pittance £6.50.

[BazzaS]

Further to our meeting today I am happy to confirm the following:

 

Take next week off (on full pay) standard hours 39 x £6.50 will be paid to you.

 

If you please could go back to doctors/hospital and get something more concrete as in not contagious etc that would be perfect.

 

Kind regards

 

I've questioned the 6.50 given that the other cleaner is on more money than me!!!

 

Cleaner in a healthcare environment or not a healthcare environment might be relevant ..... In a healthcare environment they might not wait until just pre-op to give you decolonisation, but might say "start decolonisation now, off (paid) for 2 days for the decolonisation to kick in" and then decolonise you again just pre-op.

Outside of the healthcare environment you shouldn't need any time off work unless there is some other major factor they aren't telling you about that is relevant.

 

Is this for a large firm? If so, they shouldn't be expecting you to be making the running -it's a call for their Occ Health provider, who HR should be consulting.

 

If its for a firm that is small enough they don't have an Occ Health provider they might ask you to get an opinion from your GP - if your GP is happy to answer, all welll and good, but if they need expert advice, resources they could call on include the Consultant in Medical Microbiology (CMM) at the hospital lab that did the MRSA testing, or the CCDC of the local HPU (see previous post further up the thread).

 

A CMM having a bad day might say "infection control queries in the Community aren't down to me, speak to the CCDC", but most I've interacted with have been reasonable people and given your result came from their lab would be more likely to say "It's actually the CCDC's call, so if you need a definitive legally binding answer you need to ask them, but I'd expect them to say ....... "

Either way (CMM or CCDC) I believe the answer will be "no reason for you to be off work".

 

If the employer is large enough to have an HR dept., they probably have an Occ Health provider (the firm's own or a contracted one). Have you asked if they have one, and if so why HR aren't approaching them?. I only hope the fact that they are giving you a week off, paid, in part compensates you for the stress of HR's unreasonableness!

Edited March 18, 2012 by BazzaS