Help needed been sacked while on the sick

[micky2phones]

Hi people,hope things are good with you all,Im hoping someone can help or advise me. Iv been off sick since jan 2008 and disabled,a week ago i wrote to my firm asking for the back dating of my holiday pay,following the change in the law people on long term sick may do this. i had a letter back from then saying they had sacked me for gross misconduct due to unauthorised absence on the 4th jan ,also enclosed were letters dated 13/9/2010, 22/11/2010, 10/12/2010 and 4th jan 2011 all of which i have never seen,they say iv not contacted them since 2008,but iv have in 2009 with copy of doctors letter,stating how my health was. Also in 2010 again about my health and now being disabled. Surley they have to allow me my say ? Sent one or all letters recorded due to the fact they were looking to sack me, i know its sunday folks , i hope you all had a good weekend sofar,but could do with a reply soon as im going to phone around tomorrow to see whats what as im not sure if theres any time limts on what i can do,regards to you all

[the_shadow]

Hi Micky and welcome to CAG,

 

The knowledgeable peeps will be along to help as soon as possible but like you say its a weekend so you may now get the answer you need till tomorrow. Just a quick question, do you have a copy of your company's employment policies? You may get asked questions about your HR depts policies in regards misconduct / notification / sickness etc

 

S.

[micky2phones]

Hi Micky and welcome to CAG,

 

The knowledgeable peeps will be along to help as soon as possible but like you say its a weekend so you may now get the answer you need till tomorrow. Just a quick question, do you have a copy of your company's employment policies? You may get asked questions about your HR depts policies in regards misconduct / notification / sickness etc

 

S.

hello,yes have employment contact but its a basic one and nothing in their to help me to be honest,they did refused me a lighter job

or consider voluntary redundancy when i asked

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I think we need more information in order to help you. Have you been on company sick pay since 2008 or any sort of payment from the company?

 

Their sickness policy may explain how you're meant to keep in touch, because once a year doesn't sound very much, but maybe there's more to the story?

 

Have they gone into detail about the gross misconduct please?

 

My best, HB

[the_shadow]

Ok, does it list the disciplinary process?

 

Also I take it you've not moved at all, have they been sending you payslips or other routine mail whilst you've been off sick?

[micky2phones]

Hello there.

 

I think we need more information in order to help you. Have you been on company sick pay since 2008 or any sort of payment from the company?

 

Their sickness policy may explain how you're meant to keep in touch, because once a year doesn't sound very much, but maybe there's more to the story?

 

Have they gone into detail about the gross misconduct please?

 

My best, HB

No pay just 28weeks ssp,their sickness dont say any thing abt keeping in touch,what more into the story do you mean please ? No detail just gross misconduct namely unauthorised absence from work.

[Old Cogger]

sounds like they have boobed here, as I remember when a friend of mine had a visit whilst in hospital and told sacked, events after through tribunal found firm guilty, ( including stating they were unable to do meanial job), well what an outcome, his next job was(COURT USHER), also his bank account was = £1000.00"s bigger. So seek advice and follow it through. good luck!

[micky2phones]

Reply to the shadow questions,yes there is a disciplinary policy,they knew my new address as the letteres i never got were adressed to my new address,not heard from them since 10 oct 2008,until the other day,in 2008 they took on new works manager, i imformed them abt my health and wldnt be fit for work when he was due to start,not long after that they sacked him

[micky2phones]

sounds like they have boobed here, as I remember when a friend of mine had a visit whilst in hospital and told sacked, events after through tribunal found firm guilty, ( including stating they were unable to do meanial job), well what an outcome, his next job was(COURT USHER), also his bank account was = £1000.00"s bigger. So seek advice and follow it through. good luck!

 

Thanks Mike,they did the same to someone else,sacked cause he phoned the 3rd day of sickness not the next day,got to tribunal and just before going in they settled,they made him so nothing abt what had happened,he been there 20 plus years

[honeybee13]

So do you think the accusation of gross misconduct is in retaliation for your claiming holiday pay?

 

HB

[micky2phones]

So do you think the accusation of gross misconduct is in retaliation for your claiming holiday pay?

 

HB

Tbh yes,this means i have no payment what so ever,also their gross misconduct rules state unauthorised absence from work(including consistent with alleged sickness injury or incapacity) which i wasnt i just couldnt do the job,mind and body wouldnt cope

[mariefab]

Have you been sending them sick notes from your doctor regularly?

[papasmurf1cx]

What happened for you to go sick and what exactly is your disability. Honeybee is right you need to go into a lot more detail as to what happened at the beginning. 2008 is a long time to let thing just lapse and then ask for holiday pay. The letters they say they sent but you never received, have you got copies of them now? If so what did they say?

[micky2phones]

Have you been sending them sick notes from your doctor regularly?

 

No,stopped when i no longer needed to send regarding my beneifit claim,plus them only asked for them while paying me sick pay

[micky2phones]

Regarding papasmurficx questions,i did say i got the letters as thats when i found out iv been sacked,they said contact them stating when im back at work,another asking what illness,another to come to an formal disciplinary hearing,another saying it took place and im to be sacked,as for saying h.b is right and i need to say what happen in 2008 ,the post never said that but im more than happy to say,i had r.p.i,depression,stress,spasming in my arms and my tendons went too,i now have osteo-arthritis of both knees and right hip also in my fingers,wrists elbows along with the last 3months or so leg ulers,as for only just asking for holiday pay i said in 1st post theres been a change in the law,which iv only just found out,plus iv had upwards of 60plus appointments this year alone,some days im drugged up i just sleep,the other monday alone i had to took 34 tabets so this was the last thing on my mind

[papasmurf1cx]

Have you consulted with a solicitor? If not I think you should as there seems to be many aspects to this which appear technical, the least of which is the holiday pay aspect.

[micky2phones]

Have you consulted with a solicitor? If not I think you should as there seems to be many aspects to this which appear technical, the least of which is the holiday pay aspect.

 

No not as yet as hoping to get some ideas from the good people on here,regarding the best way to go,scared of doing something then only to be told you should done this or that if you know what i mean

[papasmurf1cx]

Micky... you seem to be saying that they have made up the dismissal because you asked for the holiday pay ie created the letters to cover the admin that is necessary when dismissing someone. If what you are saying is correct there are so many cans of worms there that need careful consideration. This is a forum where general pointers can be given but without the full story, which could take time to sort out, I think you need to get a proper legal consultation.

 

When we asked for more details, what we mean is on date this happened, on date the next thing happened. There is a natural flow of information between parties that pans out and Caggers can read into them. Perhaps without naming names you can do that. Try and paragraph the story as it is easier to read. Start with what you do / did when at work, how your illness and disability fed into the story and the interactions, if any, you had with the employer.

[micky2phones]

Micky... you seem to be saying that they have made up the dismissal because you asked for the holiday pay ie created the letters to cover the admin that is necessary when dismissing someone. If what you are saying is correct there are so many cans of worms there that need careful consideration. This is a forum where general pointers can be given but without the full story, which could take time to sort out, I think you need to get a proper legal consultation.

 

When we asked for more details, what we mean is on date this happened, on date the next thing happened. There is a natural flow of information between parties that pans out and Caggers can read into them. Perhaps without naming names you can do that. Try and paragraph the story as it is easier to read. Start with what you do / did when at work, how your illness and disability fed into the story and the interactions, if any, you had with the employer.

 

Thank you so much for that,as you can tell this is not my strong point,i was/am a highly skilled metal polisher working on spindle machines going 3000rpm.

Turn your head away for a second and you may lose a finger or more !,this is heavy work at times,always standing and heavy lifting,always done at speed,in dusty and dirty areas.

This has been my work life for 32 years,which in my view has helped to wear down my joints e.t.c.

It was the summer of 2008 when i met with them asking for a lighter job and i was told no you are skilled at your job and thats what you will do.

In oct 2008 was when i was invited to see and speak with new manager,this never happen i phoned and explained my ill health,that was the last time they contacted me.

In 2009 i wrote to them short note with a copy of G.P letter with upto date health details.

In 2010 i wrote to say along with my knees my hip has arthritis and i was now disabled.

Since then my fingers etc have arthritis and this year i have leg ulers which they dont know abt any of this as we speak.

I wrote to them june this year abt holiday pay and got 4 letters back this week,

One asking when back to work dated 13/9/2010

One stating unauthorised absence is a sample of gross misconduct dated 22/10/2010

One invite to a formal hearing dated 10/12/2010.

One saying my employment has been terminated,gross misconduct due to unauthorised absence dated 4/01/2011

One saying as you are aware the company dismissed on the 4/01/2011 and they would dispute that you are owned holiday pay,as legitimate claims need to be made within 3 months ot termination and you are outside that dated 16/6/2011

Hope that makes things cleared for people to help/advise me,i think it does,not sure i will ever get use to this one finger typing lol

[Atlas01]

As others have said go seek proper legal advice from an employment law solicitor, most will give you 30m free and make sure you take ANY paperwork you have.

 

With the time you have been off the dismissal as they say by letter has been done would have been fair in my view, they could have done it on a simple frustration of contract with the timeframe involved.

 

The employer will argue that your out of time to claim anything at all, they will also argue that they have written to you and you failed to respond meaning it's your word against theirs.

 

Looking at this impartially i'm aware of many cases where employees off sick have not been reading their mail and/or simply avoided any work related mail they get. This would be the first time an employer had made up a sequence of events to orchestrate a dismissal in my experience. i'm not saying it's not happened just that your going to have you work cut out proving it. From what you have written it appears you have virtually zero contact with your employer since 2008 and although there is an expectation they keep in touch that expectation runs both ways. It is also expected that you keep in touch as well.

 

What i'm trying to say is it's much easier to see an employee in your situation ignoring the letters they state were sent than the employer making up hearing and letters that never happened.

 

You need a solicitors advice here and it may be something along the lines of "sorry your out of time" unless you can evidence that the letters were made up in june 11, as they found the way to your house last week it's not as if your employer had been sending them to the wrong address but it's something i'd check

 

good luck, you'll need it

[papasmurf1cx]

Did all the letters arrive in one envelope? If they did did you keep the envelope? Is the company a big one? Could it be that their systems just failed when it came to you and your sickness? What about workmates, what information can you get from them, your supervisor on the shop floor? Anything to get a different view of what and why they did not contact you?

 

Why did you ask them for a "lighter job" ? Did you tell them about how you felt at that point? Did they think about sending you to see Occupational Health? Was the reason for asking a known condition or suspected condition in regard to your health? Did you by any chance say that you needed a lighter job because of injuries / conditions brought about because of working for the employer ie all the things you explained in your last post?

 

It seems to me that there is an on going matter of discrimination here, especially as they knew of your disability. Why did they not try and visit you especially as they knew of your disability. The fact that your were never informed, until these last letters arrived, if a Tribunal believed you, is discriminatory.

 

Were you a member of a union? If so have you contacted them? Have you legal expenses insurance (attached to home contents insurance) for employment disputes? Did the union do anything about this at the time anything in regard to welfare even?

 

Did you contribute to a pension? What has happened about this if so?

[micky2phones]

Did all the letters arrive in one envelope? If they did did you keep the envelope? Is the company a big one? Could it be that their systems just failed when it came to you and your sickness? What about workmates, what information can you get from them, your supervisor on the shop floor? Anything to get a different view of what and why they did not contact you?

 

Why did you ask them for a "lighter job" ? Did you tell them about how you felt at that point? Did they think about sending you to see Occupational Health? Was the reason for asking a known condition or suspected condition in regard to your health? Did you by any chance say that you needed a lighter job because of injuries / conditions brought about because of working for the employer ie all the things you explained in your last post?

 

It seems to me that there is an on going matter of discrimination here, especially as they knew of your disability. Why did they not try and visit you especially as they knew of your disability. The fact that your were never informed, until these last letters arrived, if a Tribunal believed you, is discriminatory.

 

Were you a member of a union? If so have you contacted them? Have you legal expenses insurance (attached to home contents insurance) for employment disputes? Did the union do anything about this at the time anything in regard to welfare even?

 

Did you contribute to a pension? What has happened about this if so?

 

Hello,yes all came in 1 envelope.

The company has abt 50 plus working for them.

My supervisor would faer for his job if he told me anythink.

My workmates most have left or been sacked.

The reason i ask for a lighter job because my health at the time,i couldnt do my normal job,which i told them at the time.

There was no occpational health.

It was a known condition and later found out to be worst,it took 18months to see some at hospital.

Yes i agree i too think it may be discrimintion,they were informed of my disability,they knew i was ill and they sacked without estabishing that may long term illness was not due to a disability.

No visit.

No union was allowed.

No pension the was stopped they couldnt afford it.

No insurance,in a betsit,lost my house while on the sick due to not being able to claim income support.

[papasmurf1cx]

Is it possible that they sent all this documentation to your old address? back to the point about it being a long time to not have contact. When did you leave your old house, Did they know of your new address?

 

Are you in a Union? I don't understand your statement "No union was allowed"

 

Pensions are YOURS you will have paid into it, when there was one. There also may be other benefits attached to pensions in regard to illness and disability.

 

Do you have DLA and Housing Benefit? You could try and post on the Benefits forum and get better advice there.

[micky2phones]

Is it possible that they sent all this documentation to your old address? back to the point about it being a long time to not have contact. When did you leave your old house, Did they know of your new address?

 

Are you in a Union? I don't understand your statement "No union was allowed"

 

Pensions are YOURS you will have paid into it, when there was one. There also may be other benefits attached to pensions in regard to illness and disability.

 

Do you have DLA and Housing Benefit? You could try and post on the Benefits forum and get better advice there.

Hi,that may be the case and then they re-typed address in new letters and sent out with the address from my letter of last week.

Yes did give new address,since then old manager has been sent down.

We were told he would shut the place down if we joined a union.

Pension was stopped in 1997 ish i was able to join then they stopped it due to costs.

It took 18months or so for me to get d.l.a and abt 4/5 months for housing benefit

[papasmurf1cx]

Micky you really need to speak to a solicitor... very complicated issues raised here especially the sacking matter which may or may not be out of time as per the above advice from Caggers. You will need to persuade them that you believed you were still employed, that you let them know of your new address so proper communication was ignored and they proceeded without your knowledge. If you have no union and no legal protection insurance then you would need to do any ET proceedings yourself (perhaps with cag advice) or get a no win no fee lawyer... which may prove difficult.

 

Your learning curve would need to be very steep for you to do this your self and might prove too difficult, it is all about getting the information and using it Are you up for this or not? You need to be honest with yourself as to how you are going to manage it.