Ingeus

[Paulo83]

When you're not being sanctioned, they send 3 identical letters telling you this...yet when you are sanctioned, they don't even send one to tell you.

 

It's almost funny, if it wasn't so disgraceful.

 

To be fair, I was probably being harsh with the training chimps comment. This is the work of Iain Duncan Smith and his ideological zealot, swivel-eyed loon friends looking to run the DWP into the ground so they can bring in the likes of Serco to run Job Centre Plus around the country.

 

Now that thought does frighten me...

[antone]

To be fair, I was probably being harsh with the training chimps comment. This is the work of Iain Duncan Smith and his ideological zealot, swivel-eyed loon friends looking to run the DWP into the ground so they can bring in the likes of Serco to run Job Centre Plus around the country.

 

Now that thought does frighten me...

 

Yeah, don't insult JCP staff here. They're just guys and gals trying to make a living, and I tell you from direct personal experience that it's not an easy job.

 

Plus, they come on here to help out in their free time, and their advice is valuable. The forum will be a poorer place if they leave - and they will, if folks make a habit of comparing them to chimps.

[Chester6]

too often it feels like a decent one is harder to find then the winning lottery ticket

[Paulo83]

Yeah, don't insult JCP staff here. They're just guys and gals trying to make a living, and I tell you from direct personal experience that it's not an easy job.

 

Plus, they come on here to help out in their free time, and their advice is valuable. The forum will be a poorer place if they leave - and they will, if folks make a habit of comparing them to chimps.

 

You can say that about a lot people though no matter what they do, "just guys and gals trying to earn a living". You can say that about staff at ATOS, or Ingeus, or A4E etc. It doesn't justify what they sometimes do.

 

There's plenty more I could add, from experiences of people I know and from reading this forum and others, but I wish not to detract from this thread.

[antone]

You can say that about a lot people though no matter what they do, "just guys and gals trying to earn a living". You can say that about staff at ATOS, or Ingeus, or A4E etc. It doesn't justify what they sometimes do.

 

There's plenty more I could add, from experiences of people I know and from reading this forum and others, but I wish not to detract from this thread.

 

Indeed you can, and I often do. But there's a clear point here - we don't insult DWP staff here because they turn up and help us in their free time. We've lost a few recently - I guess they got sick of the abuse, and who can blame them?

 

As to your experience, sure, yes, there are 100,000 DWP employees, and some of them are obnoxious. But I could also add plenty about the offensive claimants and the things they sometimes do and say. I won't, though. I don't want to poison the well. We're here to help. So are those staffers who post here. There are plenty of places on the internet where you can vent about DWP staff, but this isn't one of them.

[Paulo83]

Indeed you can, and I often do. But there's a clear point here - we don't insult DWP staff here because they turn up and help us in their free time. We've lost a few recently - I guess they got sick of the abuse, and who can blame them?

 

As to your experience, sure, yes, there are 100,000 DWP employees, and some of them are obnoxious. But I could also add plenty about the offensive claimants and the things they sometimes do and say. I won't, though. I don't want to poison the well. We're here to help. So are those staffers who post here. There are plenty of places on the internet where you can vent about DWP staff, but this isn't one of them.

 

After receiving three letters exactly the same, and somebody else experiencing the same thing, I cracked a joke which I then retracted. I'm really driving away all the DWP staff who post here!

 

Seriously, go find those users who are genuinely abusing the DWP staff and leave me alone.

 

I've heard plenty of offensive things said by claimants. I also know of claimants being targeted or victimised (just read other websites for that). Things go both ways.

[antone]

After receiving three letters exactly the same, and somebody else experiencing the same thing, I cracked a joke which I then retracted. I'm really driving away all the DWP staff who post here!

 

Seriously, go find those users who are genuinely abusing the DWP staff and leave me alone.

 

I've heard plenty of offensive things said by claimants. I also know of claimants being targeted or victimised (just read other websites for that). Things go both ways.

 

I appreciate that you retracted the joke, and I thank you for it. In the meantime, my job is to maintain civility here and make sure the site remains useful to all.

 

So no, I'm not claiming that you're single-handedly driving away DWP staff. You're just contributing to a culture which makes them think "Ah hell, why bother?"

 

Also, I do apologise if I gave the impression that this topic was open for debate. It is not, and any misconception is, no doubt, the result of my failure to be clear.

[Paulo83]

I appreciate that you retracted the joke, and I thank you for it. In the meantime, my job is to maintain civility here and make sure the site remains useful to all.

 

So no, I'm not claiming that you're single-handedly driving away DWP staff. You're just contributing to a culture which makes them think "Ah hell, why bother?"

 

Also, I do apologise if I gave the impression that this topic was open for debate. It is not, and any misconception is, no doubt, the result of my failure to be clear.

 

Contributing to a culture? Seriously? Where else have I been posting? Nowhere but here. Are they all being driven away because of a thread about Ingeus? Somehow I doubt it.

 

Like I said, go concentrate on people who are genuinely abusing DWP staff. I used no bad language and no derogatory terms, so give me break, please.

 

Unless you wish to censor every "opinion" on the site, which surely goes against the very existence of the site in the first place.

[antone]

Contributing to a culture? Seriously? Where else have I been posting? Nowhere but here. Are they all being driven away because of a thread about Ingeus? Somehow I doubt it.

 

Like I said, go concentrate on people who are genuinely abusing DWP staff. I used no bad language and no derogatory terms, so give me break, please.

 

Unless you wish to censor every "opinion" on the site, which surely goes against the very existence of the site in the first place.

 

I gave you a break. Your post's still there, isn't it? And as such, I'm not "censoring" you - I have deleted none of your posts, everything you have written remains available for all to see. But I am asking you to follow site rules and general principles of courtesy to your fellow man.

 

Not too much to ask, really, is it?

[Paulo83]

I gave you a break. Your post's still there, isn't it? And as such, I'm not "censoring" you - I have deleted none of your posts, everything you have written remains available for all to see. But I am asking you to follow site rules and general principles of courtesy to your fellow man.

 

Not too much to ask, really, is it?

 

Then put your money where your mouth is and stop accusing me of being part of the "abusive" culture towards DWP staff.

 

not too much to ask, really, is it?

[antone]

Then put your money where your mouth is and stop accusing me of being part of the "abusive" culture towards DWP staff.

 

not too much to ask, really, is it?

 

If you refrain from referring to them as "chimps", I'll refrain from complaining about it.

[Paulo83]

If you refrain from referring to them as "chimps", I'll refrain from complaining about it.

 

I retracted that before you even commented.

[antone]

I retracted that before you even commented.

 

Fair enough. Would you like me to delete that comment?

[RebeccaPidgeon]

To be fair, I was probably being harsh with the training chimps comment. This is the work of Iain Duncan Smith and his ideological zealot, swivel-eyed loon friends looking to run the DWP into the ground so they can bring in the likes of Serco to run Job Centre Plus around the country.

 

Now that thought does frighten me...

The "Tipping Point" (ie Point Of No Return) occured a few years ago.... with Assets (such as JCP Offices) being transferred to a Management Agency, Security Staff recruited through G4S, Front Line Advsiers increasingly being employed on Short Term Contracts, with any training for JCP FLA being delivered in-house by unqualified trainers (ie they may not necessarily possess ANY Teaching Qualification), any additional demand may be sub-contracted quite easily. However,working to the Big Picture, you also find that the DWP/JCP does not possess the staff with competence to manage the Major Projects (such as Universal Job Match, Universal Credit), let alone ensure that they can control even the Bigger Projects (such as the Work Programme).

 

I dont think that the situation will change for the better.

Edited September 15, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[Chester6]

Job club was always sourced out I thought so with that in mind it's logical that the New Deal and WP etc would be, but its now for companies who make a profit and the unemployed are demonised simply for being unemployed, if the government seriously wants to deal with helping then why the demonising of the unemployed?

[jasta11]

It's very hard to have any confidence if the people who are supposed to be administering to your claim or helping you back into work don't even know their own guidelines - or choose for whatever purpose to ignore or bend them. We shouldn't need to keep correcting the WP and JC on their procedures. Putting anything into the hands of a private company just means that it's now 200% geared towards profit; quality coming a poor second best.

 

When I see my PWP advisor next, I'll ask her what's being done about Ingeus Exit Reports - she mentioned last time that 'things were changing' as the JC were definitely not happy about the bland, uninformative reports they've been getting. Mine simply said 'Client is work ready'. Four words which took them 2 years to write..

[mr_mastiff]

Job club was always sourced out I thought so with that in mind it's logical that the New Deal and WP etc would be, but its now for companies who make a profit and the unemployed are demonised simply for being unemployed, if the government seriously wants to deal with helping then why the demonising of the unemployed?

 

Its a political tactic, single a number of groups out, blame them through the media or parliament for the economic mess we are in, or blame the lack of housing on immigration or single parents and it diverts the mail readers from actually forming an opinion on who as really caused this mess. Employing private companies give them wiggle room when things go totally wrong, blame them its far easier than taking any responsibility.

[Mr.P]

Job club was always sourced out

 

Having been on the receiving end of "job club" activities (within the company I worked for) under both Tory and Labour schemes, the barrage of calls and speculative letters were a waste of time. Not one call or letter resulted in a job offer - Save your money and the (potential) employer's time.

[Chester6]

My exit report said my only barrier was unemployment

It took 2 years to come to that realisation, in spite of doing the labour there they had nothing else to say

[Mr.P]

My exit report said my only barrier was unemployment [...] they had nothing else to say

 

Another exit report to add to the growing pile - Perhaps the person filling out your exit report didn't see the memo from the DWP issued back in June:

 

Management Information will still be collected and monitored in terms of the achievement of the 10 day target for completing and returning the Exit Reports and this information will be shared with Jobcentre Plus colleagues.

 

The group will also conduct some sample checking of the quality of the Exit reports

 

Hopefully yours will be one selected for the sample and they get pulled up for a lack of detail.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

It's very hard to have any confidence if the people who are supposed to be administering to your claim or helping you back into work don't even know their own guidelines - or choose for whatever purpose to ignore or bend them. We shouldn't need to keep correcting the WP and JC on their procedures. Putting anything into the hands of a private company just means that it's now 200% geared towards profit; quality coming a poor second best.

 

When I see my PWP advisor next, I'll ask her what's being done about Ingeus Exit Reports - she mentioned last time that 'things were changing' as the JC were definitely not happy about the bland, uninformative reports they've been getting. Mine simply said 'Client is work ready'. Four words which took them 2 years to write..

Pedantics aside, the "Client" (from JCP perspective) is the Welfare To Work Organisation - if any W2W organisation considers themselves "Work Ready", such a claim would be in violation of the Trade Descriptions Act.

[Chester6]

Another exit report to add to the growing pile - Perhaps the person filling out your exit report didn't see the memo from the DWP issued back in June:

 

Management Information will still be collected and monitored in terms of the achievement of the 10 day target for completing and returning the Exit Reports and this information will be shared with Jobcentre Plus colleagues.

 

The group will also conduct some sample checking of the quality of the Exit reports

 

Hopefully yours will be one selected for the sample and they get pulled up for a lack of detail.

 

It was end of July when I escaped

[Tj rodgers]

Does anybody know what the process is after the 6 months of post work programme support finishes? Coz my local jcp in Hoylake Wirral doesnt deal with pwps and have sent me To the larger Jcp in birkenhead for my 6 months of pwps its also the same for other claimant who sign on at the other small jcp offices around wirral

[jasta11]

Does anybody know what the process is after the 6 months of post work programme support finishes? Coz my local jcp in Hoylake Wirral doesnt deal with pwps and have sent me To the larger Jcp in birkenhead for my 6 months of pwps its also the same for other claimant who sign on at the other small jcp offices around wirral

 

I'm sure that even as we write the wonderful government and DWP are concocting yet another badly thought-out scheme for us after our 6 months PWP.

I can read their minds; 'We didn't expect people to be STILL unemployed after 2 years WP and 6 months PWP, what the hell can we do with them now??'

 

Be nice if we could either get a job or just go back to the usual once a fortnight signing with no hassle - I'm sure the JC advisors would also welcome some peace and quiet too.

 

If this new National Service thing becomes law, then I know where a lot of younger people will be heading; community service for a year! Glad I'm older and out of that one.

[kosebamse]

Hello folks, a little update on my second visit to Ingeus. First was standard. I was pressuried to sign this and that, refused to sign anything and provide any information. Was quite a stressful experience, all in all. During my second meeting, the WP adviser told me he is not my advisor anymore and handed to me a letter appointing me to a new advisor at a different time. He also highlighted that a sanction doubt was raised as I apparently did not attend the first appointment with Ingeus. Ironically, this was the very appointment I had had with this advisor. It seems to me, that the sanction was raised in respect to my not coming at the time that I had received and obscure text message with an appointment - basically, I ignored it waiting for a letter.

 

To make it a bit more interesting, at that time I changed the address - I have myself posted a letter to WP (signed for) informing them of the change of address as well as informed the JCP during my appointment with the advisor (who actually was not there and shadowed by a co-worker) about the change of address. I assume that the letter was posted to my previous address, hence never received it. I told my advisor during last meeting about the sanction and he advised me to be patient and wait for the letter from JCP (apparently the sanction was raised at the beginning of September). Not sure how to sort it out?

 

I have an original letter for my first appointment with Ingeus, for which the appointment was scheduled roughly 2 weeks after I moved to a new flat, the receipts of the letter I posted to Ingeus, as well as they should have it in their system I told them I had moved to a new flat.

 

Another story relates to my par-time education. During the previous appointment my advisor said that it's not his job to accept the form ES567sJP and I should contact WP about this. During last meeting, all of a sudden, he demanded the learning agreement. I'm so confused? The course officially started this Monday and I was told I have to provide it by this Friday. Is this learning agreement and obligatory for them to have or is it enough If I'd provide them with a letter stating I'm in part-time education and listing the number of hours/days I'm attending the course? Advice warmly appreciated!