Ingeus

[Nystagmite]

Hi Rebecca, interview was late July so no overlap. I want to claim the in work credit or called something like that. £40 per week for the first 12 months, so was in a quandary as to whether write down details of new employer in order to claim..

 

I'm sure Flumps said that you can give your employer details to JC; but not WP. WP can't get then get your details from JC without your permission.

[LongHairedLily]

Hi Rebecca

 

I actually applied via UJM for this role and it is on my activity history. I can't see any stipulations on the DWP site stating the role has to be applied via UJM, do you have the link to that information please. It will be so good not to have the blinking nagging of using the computer everyday! I am going to detox for the first week of work, no computer, just relax from it!!

[LongHairedLily]

I'm sure Flumps said that you can give your employer details to JC; but not WP. WP can't get then get your details from JC without your permission.

 

Hi Nag...Have to say not read anything of Flumps in a long while..Is she keeping a low profile these days?

[jasta11]

I've also noticed Flumps hasn't been around much lately, her help and advice is greatly missed.

 

While I had my first PWP interview yesterday, I took the opportunity to check the exit report I got from Ingeus with the one they sent the DWP, just to see if they'd added anything or tried to claim for 'help' I didn't receive, but both reports were identical.

 

However the JC advisor did say that Ingeus would be getting into bother over the lack of information on their exit reports compared to other providers. Mine only said 'Client is ready for work and actively seeking jobs'...not much to say about a client they've supposedly come to know over 2 years! She showed me an exit report from another WP (hiding the clients personal details) and it was very detailed, saying what they'd achieved while on the WP and the help they still needed. The Ingeus exit report was, in her words, 'worthless'.

 

Looks like Ingeus will have to up their game considerably regarding their paperwork ie actually start doing some!

[Bakatcha]

I'm sure Flumps said that you can give your employer details to JC; but not WP. WP can't get then get your details from JC without your permission.

I'm not sure what you mean by this! JC will share all its info with a WP exploiter and they don't need your permission to do so. This is because the JC are deemed to be the data controller and the WP (and any other subs in the chain) are data users. It is safe to assume that whatever the JC knows the WP exploiters know as well.

[Mr.P]

However the JC advisor did say that Ingeus would be getting into bother over the lack of information on their exit reports[...]. The Ingeus exit report was, in her words, 'worthless'.

 

"worthless" pretty much sums up the help and support from virtually (if not all) WP providers. But without any monitoring and regular audits of a "black box" approach, it was to be expected.

 

JC will share all its info with a WP exploiter and they don't need your permission to do so. This is because the JC are deemed to be the data controller and the WP (and any other subs in the chain) are data users. It is safe to assume that whatever the JC knows the WP exploiters know as well.

 

The controller/processor cop-out is a common tactic to share information and this is not just limited to the activities of the DWP. There is only one way to combat this - Refuse permission for the JCP/DWP to share personal information with third parties OR subcontractors and only provide the bare minimum of details. On "signing off" and closing your JSA claim, there is no legal requirement to provide employer details. You can just put "personal reasons" or "none of the above" in the relevant box when handing in the form. This is what I did, and when pressed for more information by jobsworth, penned "NFI" underneath.

 

Note: Uploading a CV to UJ automatically gives the DWP free reign over distributing it to all and sundry.

[tfp]

I've also noticed Flumps hasn't been around much lately, her help and advice is greatly missed.

 

While I had my first PWP interview yesterday, I took the opportunity to check the exit report I got from Ingeus with the one they sent the DWP, just to see if they'd added anything or tried to claim for 'help' I didn't receive, but both reports were identical.

 

However the JC advisor did say that Ingeus would be getting into bother over the lack of information on their exit reports compared to other providers. Mine only said 'Client is ready for work and actively seeking jobs'...not much to say about a client they've supposedly come to know over 2 years! She showed me an exit report from another WP (hiding the clients personal details) and it was very detailed, saying what they'd achieved while on the WP and the help they still needed. The Ingeus exit report was, in her words, 'worthless'.

 

Looks like Ingeus will have to up their game considerably regarding their paperwork ie actually start doing some!

 

Well, I have not received my exit report yet. I can guess why. I have been seen by around SEVEN different 'advisers' (actually two were okay) and spent most of my time at Ingeus NOT being seen, esp. in the 2nd year. It either does not exist or like jasta11 is so sparse not to be worth the paper its printed on.

 

Indeed, what jasta11 says is telling. Suppose a client showed their JCP adviser just one or two jobs they applied for over a two week period. They'd be facing a possible sanction for not applying for enough jobs no doubt. And yet, a WP provider like Ingeus can seemingly get away with providing less than the bare minimum themselves. Just where is THEIR sanction??!!!??

[osdset]

Isn't it ridiculous? Virtually every back to work initiative this government has in place is a laughing stock, even the New Enterprise Allowance scheme has decended into the land of farce with applications not processed, mentors who contact claimants 13 weeks into the scheme, cash incentives held up or not materialising at all. If they can't even assist those who want to go the self employed route what chance does anyone else stand?

 

One would think that someone in government has stood back and realised that the WP isn't working, sanctions aren't working, UJM doesn't work, and UC is a train wreck.

 

The big stick approach has failed miserably.

Edited August 17, 2013 by osdset

[tfp]

Isn't it ridiculous? Virtually every back to work initiative this government has in place is a laughing stock, even the New Enterprise Allowance scheme has decended into the land of farce with applications not processed, mentors who contact claimants 13 weeks into the scheme, cash incentives held up or not materialising at all. If they can't even assist those who want to go the self employed route what chance does anyone else stand?

 

One would think that someone in government has stood back and realised that the WP isn't working, sanctions aren't working, UJM doesn't work, and UC is a train wreck.

 

The big stick approach has failed miserably.

 

You're not wrong. And it's not just the present shower. The last labour government also decided to employ shysters such as Serco, G4s, Working Links, BEST (now part of Interserve), the infamous A4e, Seetec, Avanta and of course Ingeus. Should Labour be elected come May 2015, the sad and pathetic reality is that a WP2 will be created STILL employing the services of the afore mentioned companies.

 

The New Ent Allowance stuff you mention sounds interesting. Any more info?

 

Particularly relevant to me as I had a NEA appointment last Weds. 13-26 weeks to start a business from £0 to being able to pay you a living wage is simply not feasible for most. The worst thing is how they reduce your allowance from £65 to a mere £33 after 13 weeks!!! One is better of claiming Working Tax credits from the off.

 

The NEA mentor I saw gave me mixed feelings though. I'm sure he's run a business and is competent enough on that score. However, I was explaining why my business idea had stalled somewhat until recently. All due to Adobe making their major software titles subscription only. Thus I have gone back to CorelDraw from Adobe CS4 and having redo almost everything. However, the NEA mentor insisted that he BOUGHT the latest version of Photoshop as a download for £900 paid outright as a perpetual licence. Now I know that is pure BS for two reasons. One, it is simply not possible to purchase Photoshop and many other Adobe software titles outright. Even though you can pay a year upfront, the payments are taken monthly. And as a result, perpetual licences are a thing of the past. Secondly, the last version of Photoshop purchasable outright was CS6. This sets you back £650. Pricey, yes. But not £900!

 

It does make me think what he was trying to prove. Either he was lying or simply did not know what the hell he was on about. Not great vibes to be giving off as a business mentor!

 

We both agreed I should get my business further forward before contacting NEA again. However, it's doubtful if I will.

[Charlotte_Henderson]

Suppose a client showed their JCP adviser just one or two jobs they applied for over a two week period. They'd be facing a possible sanction for not applying for enough jobs no doubt. And yet, a WP provider like Ingeus can seemingly get away with providing less than the bare minimum themselves. Just where is THEIR sanction??!!!??

 

Didn't know Ingeus had to supply jobs??

 

You have to apply for 3 jobs a week with JCP

[tfp]

Didn't know Ingeus had to supply jobs??

 

You have to apply for 3 jobs a week with JCP

 

I was merely making the comparison with a jobseeker who could be easily sanctioned for doing less than the stated minimum.

[jasta11]

What the DWP needs to do - assuming of course that they're even remotely interested - is to have a standard Exit Report document, designed by themselves, which every provider has to use. A simple guideline of 'Should the Exit Report not be completed in full, no Outcome payments can be paid' would be enough to make them fill it in properly.

 

...but then again, do we really want that? It may encourage the WP to put a load of lies and recommendations into the report to pad it out, which would justify the JC in sending us on even more courses? Perhaps just a simple 'The client is ready for work' (as I got) is preferable after all. The JC can't really read anything into that.

[Paulo83]

Firstly never believe a word your advisor at ingeus tells you, when they say its fine you missed an appointment. what they really mean is they have reported you to job centre for non attendance.

 

Secondly unless your no longer with Ingeus you will be visiting another ingeus office soon.

 

I dunno, my adviser has been okay with me up to now. I haven't received any letter from the DWP stating a doubt has been raised, so I have to take their word for it.

 

Having no desire to step foot in an Ingeus is one thing, but having to do so to avoid sanctions is another.

 

Anyway, thanks to Mr. P, I managed to contact my adviser and cite the relevant telephone regulations in objection to cold-calling. It worked. My cold-calling sessions have now been changed to lone job search sessions. Mr. P (and me) 1-0 my adviser.

[Mr.P]

I managed to contact my adviser and cite the relevant telephone regulations in objection to cold-calling. It worked. My cold-calling sessions have now been changed to lone job search sessions.

 

[jasta11]

That's great news, Paulo3 - as the saying goes, 'Knowledge is power'. Hope you'll pass on the info to others on the course who are asked to do the same thing.

 

Always remember that, despite their arrogance, WP advisors are constantly worried about keeping their jobs - there's no loyalty in these places and the company will dispense with their services without hesitation if targets aren't met or if advisors cause complaints to be made against the branch thereby bringing in the DWP investigators and causing grief for the managers. I always found the mere mention of reporting them usually made them change their tune.

 

One of my former advisors was 're-assigned' and I have no doubt this meant 'sacked', as I never saw him again at any of the desks in the open-plan office.

[Dark 1]

hey guys I was put on the work program around November 2 years ago so my time with my provider is almost up I think..

From day 1 I entered the program with a negative attitude having being on similar courses before with very little to no outcome other than a lot of wasted time..

This provider was slightly worse than the others I had been to, there office was small and crowded, and they didn't even offer tea or coffee let alone biscuits..

So I do my induction and they start to go heavy on me straight away, I was in possession of a sick note at the time for stress and depression due to a lot of trouble with an alcoholic neighbour an I was due in court at around the time they wanted me to come back in to which I refused, they even wanted me to come straight from court to there office for an appointment as the courts were just across the road I said no..

So a little time passes and I receive a sanction letter from dwp

Before this sanction is put into place I broke my leg quite badly and went onto esa

About 6 months pass and I got to atos with my leg still in a brace and they refer me back on the work program.

so I turn up with my leg in the brace still claiming esa unfit for work

My adviser and I just went to war straight away with me shooting her down on anything she tried to make me do, I was having none of her cr@p..

She was pretty relentless and in the I ended my esa claim and waited for her to phone me then gave her a load of abuse..

I told her I was not claiming and to stop ringing my phone as I have no commitment to her or her company, to which she refused so I just started being abusive over the phone and told her if she doesn't like it stop phoneing me..

Well the phonecalls stopped and I re claimed esa for the same injury and all was good..

So as I stand now my 2 years with them is almost over and I have just started claiming jsa again this month and they have notified me im still on the work program

well out of my 2 years there I have been in there office maybe 6 times and it will be interesting to see what happens over the next 2 months or so I have with them

[Mr.P]

Dark 1: I hope you record all conversations

 

If this office is indeed small and cramped as you say, how do they expect to ensure client confidentiality ?

If you overhear discussions regarding debt, health issues, criminal records, or any other personal information, make a note of names. Then write to the DWP outlining the details of the conversations and ask what steps they are taking to protect client confidentiality. That should get a few backsides kicked

[Dark 1]

Dark 1: I hope you record all conversations

 

If this office is indeed small and cramped as you say, how do they expect to ensure client confidentiality ?

If you overhear discussions regarding debt, health issues, criminal records, or any other personal information, make a note of names. Then write to the DWP outlining the details of the conversations and ask what steps they are taking to protect client confidentiality. That should get a few backsides kicked

 

I was going to complain but I got my own way in the end anyway..

They moved to new offices right next door to my job centre not long after my induction

Having been on a couple of work programs before I could just sense that this lot were a different animal

But I was in no mood at the time to take there **** and I made that quite clear to them.

I was basically homeless with a bail condition not to return to return to my address yet they wanted to apply more pressure to my life rather than understand and actually help me through that time..

Well thanks to them I have learned one thing, and that's how to get more out the system for free which is the complete opposite of what there target was

I will now ride out the jsa as long as possible and see if they can help me, if I get a job great if not then I will go back on esa with depression

I should of appealed the esa decision to stop my claim but I actually want to work I have had neally 4 years of doing nothing..

when they sent my esa claim closure letter I was owed a months money which I never got due to no going and getting a sicknote off to them

my fault yes but this left me without any income for over a month and I have only just received an £80 jsa payment and they refuse to pay the backdate

so within 24 hours of me thinking ok lets do this and start looking for work with a positive attitude I was reduced back to my why bother screw them catch me if you can type attitude

I made my jsa claim on a Monday they gave me an interview at the job centre on the Wednesday to go and sign my agreement..

I had no money so I tried to get a short term benefit advance to travel to the interview and for food etc

I was phoning them repeatedly trying to sort this and was lied to and past to piller and post and even had the phone put down on me

I eventually got the payment on the Friday of £40

The esa people you speak to are a lot nicer than there jsa counterparts there is a clear difference in the tone they use and the attitude they have.

Anyway just checked my mail and I have a letter from the work program inviting me to a mandatory interview on the 9th of sept, it also states that my participation in the work program will be over at the end of September whoop

And just as luck would have it the letter is signed by the advisor I was at war with (cant believe she's still there)

should be fun I will keep you informed ..

[jasta11]

Anyway just checked my mail and I have a letter from the work program inviting me to a mandatory interview on the 9th of sept, it also states that my participation in the work program will be over at the end of September whoop

And just as luck would have it the letter is signed by the advisor I was at war with (cant believe she's still there)

should be fun I will keep you informed ..

 

That will be Ingeus' last chance to try and make some money out of you before you leave. If it goes like my final interview did, they'll be asking you how soon you think you'll find a job after leaving - this is so they can lay claim to finding the job for you, if they find out about it.

 

They'll also ask to keep in touch with you after you leave to give you further 'help' - by which they mean find out about any job you get and try and claim it.

 

Be sure to tell them very clearly that you want no further contact with them in any shape or form, and you want a copy of your Exit Report sent to you, which you're entitled to. The report probably won't say much (mine didn't either) but you still want a copy anyway.

 

My branch of Ingeus also moved right behind the jobcentre not long after I started with them - maybe we attended the same one? (The area starts with a G ) If it was the same one, I bet I know the advisor you mention, she was a real misery..and I had great joy in reporting her to the DWP for a lot of errors

Edited August 19, 2013 by jasta11

[tfp]

Well, I have posted my WTC claim form this morning! An just closed my JSA claim down too. I have a slightly scared but overall elated feeling! I guess I feel freedom! Should've taken the advice of a fellow volunteer (at a local non-profit organisation) and done this months ago! better late than never!

[joeski]

That's great news, Paulo3 - as the saying goes, 'Knowledge is power'. Hope you'll pass on the info to others on the course who are asked to do the same thing.

 

Always remember that, despite their arrogance, WP advisors are constantly worried about keeping their jobs - there's no loyalty in these places and the company will dispense with their services without hesitation if targets aren't met or if advisors cause complaints to be made against the branch thereby bringing in the DWP investigators and causing grief for the managers. I always found the mere mention of reporting them usually made them change their tune.

 

One of my former advisors was 're-assigned' and I have no doubt this meant 'sacked', as I never saw him again at any of the desks in the open-plan office.

 

 

so basically all you have to do is say i'm reporting you to head office and the advisor will start been nice?! thats awesome, make sure you get other WP clieants in ingues to back up your story and is bye bye sad little ingeus worker hahaha xD

[JustInterested]

so basically all you have to do is say i'm reporting you to head office and the advisor will start been nice?

 

Absolutely not! All that will happen is that you'll incur the wrath of the adviser and you'll get more crap slung your way and with the support of head office to back them up. You should, of course, complain up the chain about anything that needs complaining about but the procedure is deliberately drawn out by the provider making it very stressful for the complainant.

[Mr.P]

All that will happen is that you'll incur the wrath of the adviser and you'll get more crap slung your way and with the support of head office to back them up. You should, of course, complain up the chain about anything that needs complaining about but the procedure is deliberately drawn out by the provider making it very stressful for the complainant.

 

Indeed, I have had first hand experience of an "adviser" turn on me after reporting a security breach way above her head. In this particular instance, the report went fairly high up in the DWP before the provider got reprimanded for their lapses - It didn't do me any good, but I did use a defence of "a vindictive and vexatious response to a number of outstanding complaints against " when they tried to sanction me.

 

Outstanding and unresolved complaints:

 

• Atrocious punctuation and grammar in provider issued documents.
  
• Poor spelling and grammar in meeting reports (most of which consisted of a single line).
  
• Zero personalised support
  
• Failure to reimburse travel expenses (eventually resolved)
  
• No suitable training offered, not even the basics.
  
• No client confidentiality with lip service given to the notion.
  
• Poor record storage that led to at least one instance of unauthorised access.
  

The last two were certainly worth raising complaints over by going directly to the DWP and not giving the provider a chance to sweep it under the carpet - They tried, but still got more than they bargained for.

[jasta11]

Depends a lot upon the individual advisor how far you need to go - but do be prepared to go all the way if necessary. In most cases they would just assume clients would accept anything they said and a simple 'Under section X of rule Z you're not allowed to do that - want to see the guidance? would usually mark their card for them. I always made a show of looking through the guidance rules on my E-book..this seemed to intimidate them slightly

 

Some would persist and say you're wrong or they had their own way of doing things so you then had to step up a gear and say 'Fine, I'll check with the DWP Contracts people and I'm sure they'll be happy to write to me and confirm you're right'.

 

Always threaten to complain directly to the DWP, no point in complaining to Ingeus managers as they're hardly likely to take our side. The manager at my branch of Ingeus was always walking through the open-plan office and could clearly hear advisors being rude to clients and giving wrong advice and did nothing about it. She knew exactly what her staff were like and I consider her equally as guilty in providing the appalling service.

 

Always remember that we're not the ones acting like we make the rules - they are.

[joeski]

i hate all ingeus staff so much!!