Local Council Petitioning for Bankruptcy for Unpaid Council Tax

[Keep Smiling]

With regards to your dispute over liability, as Mrs Chan explained you are liable because you are the owner and this is classed as your main residence

 

do you live there ? do you pay council tax at a different address ?, are you registered on the voters roll at that address?,is your Tennant,

 

Has council been in your name from the start of his tenancy

 

so this the second time the council have made you bankrupt

 

 

No I don't live there

 

Yes I have another address

 

No I am not on the voters register at this address

 

Yes my tenant is

 

Yes it appears to have been in name since the start of his tenancy (despite the Council being told from the very beginning he was living there)

 

I cleared the first Bankruptcy (the £35k) so that their solicitors would be out of the equation and they couldn't keep referring everything to them and making me pay for their legal fees. Then on the very same day it was cleared they used the same solicitors to issue another SD

 

For the next week (at least) I am not bankrupt but I really do need to get a 6.19 served on the courts tomorrow.

 

I have just phoned Wallasey Town Hall and spoken to Debbie again, she was suprised as she was promised someone would call me back. I was put through to the Directors office but it seems he is on leave until tomorrow as well, as is Malcolm Flannagan who also deals with this.

I gave the person who answered a brief synopsis of the case, emailed across links to these threads and said that it might be easier if somebody could read this and see the whole picture before they called me.

 

Cutting it a bit fine I know.

[brassnecked]

looks like the press may be a good option, the Daily Heil (Mail), Telegraph and possibly Guardian may be worth a punt, as this is SOOOOO way out of order that I think the system is out of control in Wallasey.

 

looking at Articles 6, 7 and 8 there may well be breaches under the Convention by Wallasey here, shame a good Human Rights lawyer cannot step up to the plate

Edited June 13, 2011 by brassnecked

[Keep Smiling]

looks like the press may be a good option, the Daily Heil (Mail), Telegraph and possibly Guardian may be worth a punt, as this is SOOOOO way out of order that I think the system is out of control in Wallasey.

 

looking at Articles 6, 7 and 8 there may well be breaches under the Convention by Wallasey here, shame a good Human Rights lawyer cannot step up to the plate

 

 

Thank you for the comments and advice I have received over the last few days. A quick update:

 

I have contacted the offices of the Rt Hon Frank Field MP, I gave the person a brief outline and directed them here, they have taken my number and said that someone will contact me shortly.

 

I have spoken to two other landlords in the area, both have said that Council Tax is always the tenants responsibility (in their agreements) and that all they or their tenant has ever had to do for it to be put in their name is to make a quick phone call, so it would appear that this is a situation where a Council Officer is applying the rules differently to me.

 

I have also been advised to obtain a copy of the affidavit sworn by John Fielden the process server. He, at first, claimed to have visited the property himself (I was VERY specific about this when I spoke to him) on at least two previous occaisions, and yet when he had to serve the SD in person he didn't know where the property was (as shown by witness statements and CCTV). If, as he must have done, declared to the court that he had attempt service twice and failed, which is now known to be untrue, then the SD must be withdrawn (as it was incorrectly served) and the Court must look more closely at his actions. Not entirely sure how this works but someone has mentioned a Form 4 regarding his conduct and misrepresentation.

 

I have drafted out a 6.19 which I will serve upon Drydens and the Courts tomorrow, however I will leave it as late as possible as I am still hoping that someone from Wallasey Town Hall will conatct me and want to put the brakes on before it all becomes out of hand. (the eternal optimist)

 

I think that the national press are a good idea, up until now I was hoping to keep it quiet as I thought it might effect my businesses, but I think I'd prefer people to know what is going on rather than whispers start that I might be going bust.

[brassnecked]

Keep Smiling, sometimes although the press is a double-edged sword, in your case where there is more than possibility of Gross Maladministration, possible perjury, and otherwise perversion of the course of justice, by the council and their agents, the press may be a good option.

Hope such a high profile MP like Frank Field can help you. Good luck and keep us posted.

[hallowitch]

I'M really sorry i don't know how to help you with a 6.19 and as long as someone at the council says you are responsible for council tax for that address i have no idea how you would defend this as the liability is in your name

 

 

 

you could try sending an e-mail to the CEO and explain some of this and ask for the bankruptcy to be put on hold (which you should have done the first time around) until he finds out exactly why the information provided by the tenant and the tenancy agreement has not been accepted i honestly don't know what more information you can provide

 

Then there is the Small matter of your daughters tenancy which i assume will be raking up debts as we speak because again someone at the council has decided she is not a Tennant

 

 

2006 bankruptcy

i keep reading this and i can’t get my head round this so i have to ask please correct me where I'm wrong put simply somehow (how/why that’s another question) your council have attached you to an address in wales that had outstanding council tax your council initiated court proceedings and gained a liability order in your name for this welsh address that has never been owned or occupied by you

When you found out even after proof has been provided your council refused to remove you from the liability order choosing to make you bankrupt instead

you have been playing 3 way letter ping pong between the council and there solicitor that has cost you £35k for council legal fees (which you have paid)plus you paid the council tax etc.

 

 

Have you actually sent a subject access request to the council? Or have you just asked for any information you have received?

Have you sent a subject access request to the court or did you just request the information?

 

 

Why don't you have a solicitor?

Why have you never made a formal complaint to the CEO before now?

Why haven’t you been to the ombudsman?

When whoever at the council decided that you were responsible for the council tax at your tenants address and that your daughter was now not a tenant why didn’t you appeal the decisions?

Is it the same person from your council that’s making all decision’s on the above 3 situations?

Edited June 14, 2011 by hallowitch

[hallowitch]

In order that this may be reviewed you must provide evidence of your residence and that you are registered for Council Tax elsewhere. Also, in order that I may consider making Mr xxx liable, he must provide me with sufficient evidence of his tenancy and residency.

 

OK you have done that

 

This, coupled with proof of your residency elsewhere may allow me to review your liability

 

have you provided them with proof of your residency elsewhere

 

I have spoken to two other landlords in the area, both have said that Council Tax is always the tenants responsibility (in their agreements) and that all they or their tenant has ever had to do for it to be put in their name is to make a quick phone call,

 

correct unless its a house of multiple occupancy

 

Not entirely sure how this works but someone has mentioned a Form 4 regarding his conduct and misrepresentation.

 

As far as I'm aware the only form 4 i know about is when your taking a bailiff court for unlawful fee /levy

 

Which bring me to another question

have they ever tried to enforce any of the debts using bailiffs of have they gone immediately for bankruptcy ?

[seanamarts]

Is or has your tenant on benefits, because if he has or is then this should be on file with the council at that address, plus also if you are paying CT at the place where you are residing then they should have that on record also. Some one at the council NEEDS to sit down with all the paper work and sort through it.

Why the council have refused bills as proof of some one living at an address is way beyond me.

By the way, may be a silly question but are you paying council tax where you are living?

[Guest carlos999]

I may be missing something but why dont you just prove via documentation that you were paying council tax somewhere else- this would obviously solve the problem as you cant be classed as living at two main residences?

 

If you dont have this i can see why the council are reluctant to believe you.

[Keep Smiling]

Keep Smiling, sometimes although the press is a double-edged sword, in your case where there is more than possibility of Gross Maladministration, possible perjury, and otherwise perversion of the course of justice, by the council and their agents, the press may be a good option.

Hope such a high profile MP like Frank Field can help you. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

I think that the press would be interested, but as always it depends on the tack they want to take, at this time I don't see a downside for me, but then again I've learnt that you can't prepare for everything.

 

I had a few few missed "Blocked" calls today as I was on the phone to various places for hours at a time, so hopefully I'll get a return call from Frank Field tomorrow.

[Keep Smiling]

I'M really sorry i don't know how to help you with a 6.19 and as long as someone at the council says you are responsible for council tax for that address i have no idea how you would defend this as the liability is in your name

 

 

 

you could try sending an e-mail to the CEO and explain some of this and ask for the bankruptcy to be put on hold (which you should have done the first time around) until he finds out exactly why the information provided by the tenant and the tenancy agreement has not been accepted i honestly don't know what more information you can provide

 

Then there is the Small matter of your daughters tenancy which i assume will be raking up debts as we speak because again someone at the council has decided she is not a Tennant

 

 

2006 bankruptcy

i keep reading this and i can’t get my head round this so i have to ask please correct me where I'm wrong put simply somehow (how/why that’s another question) your council have attached you to an address in wales that had outstanding council tax your council initiated court proceedings and gained a liability order in your name for this welsh address that has never been owned or occupied by you

When you found out even after proof has been provided your council refused to remove you from the liability order choosing to make you bankrupt instead

you have been playing 3 way letter ping pong between the council and there solicitor that has cost you £35k for council legal fees (which you have paid)plus you paid the council tax etc.

 

 

Have you actually sent a subject access request to the council? Or have you just asked for any information you have received?

Have you sent a subject access request to the court or did you just request the information?

 

 

Why don't you have a solicitor?

Why have you never made a formal complaint to the CEO before now?

Why haven’t you been to the ombudsman?

When whoever at the council decided that you were responsible for the council tax at your tenants address and that your daughter was now not a tenant why didn’t you appeal the decisions?

Is it the same person from your council that’s making all decision’s on the above 3 situations?

 

 

I have had to file the 6.19 today (I'll post a copy of it later), I tried hard not to do the whole "It's nothing to do with me, go away.." routine, and although it's a bit late to change it now hopefully someone will be able to make any suggestions how it might have been improved.

 

I spoke to a Mr Neil Xxxx who was, it would appear, the most senior member of staff not on leave this week, In order for him to call me back I once again had to call Debbie at Wallasey Town Hall, who phoned through and assured me that someone would be calling back.

 

Mr Neil Xxxx first of all said that he was not prepared to read the links to this website that were forwarded to him, so once again I had to go through the history, which he said he was aware of. He said that Mrs Chan was within her right to accept or refuse any items put before her as evidence of a tenancy, although if my tenant would present himself, with his tenancy agreement, and his utility bills, and his tax returns, and his driving licence and/or passport to Mrs Chan at her offices then they would "consider" who was liable for the property. I told him that we had been through this once before and supplied every single item, and more, that had been requested, they had "considered" it and decided that it was not enough.

 

Moving on to my daughters flat he could not understand why anybody had said that they were waiting for Mrs Chan to make a decision on this matter as it wasn't her department, I told him that I already knew this and Malcolm Flanagan had confirmed such, he asked if I might have made an error to which I told him that the staff had informed me that she was stuck in Singapore due to an ash cloud and it would be resolved on her return, on her return some two weeks later I was then told that that it had been passed to Mr Neil Xxxx (him) but that he was now away on leave. He said that he didn't have the exact dates he was away last year on him.

 

Almost correct (re:2006), the address is a property in Birkenhead, which i have never lived at and never owned. The person who owns that property lives in Wales. Obviously this case was brought up as I said I didn't want this whole circus to begin again. I told him that I had supplied him with full details of the tenant who was in that property at the time along with a sworn affidavit from him and various documentation, he replied that they were aware of this but unfortunately they had "lost contact" with this individual and didn't know where to trace him. I told him that he was still using the same mobile number that he had had for the past 8 years or so, I knew this as Wirral Borough Council had paid for him to attend to various training courses and assisted him in setting up a business, the advert for which appeared in the Wirral Globe (local free paper) and a Business Link newsletter (supported by WBC) several times over the last few months.

 

I haven't sent an SAR, I am preparing one tonight to be served on them this Thursday (do you think recording the whole thing so they can't claim not to have received it is going too far ? )

 

I went into the Magistrates Court Building itself, more than once, they ran around for 15minutes asking different people but kept coming back with that they keep no records whatsoever of any LO's made, that the details of each are not read read out in court the council just say how many they have and they are granted on that number.

 

I have made several complaints (not to the CEO before) and each one (see previous posts) was either derailed or diverted to their solicitors (who added the costs of dealing with it to my bill).

 

The decision on my daughters tenancy was appealled, and rejected, it was sent forward to a tribuneral without any of the paperwork supplied by her, and rejected again. She does have a solicitor dealing with this now (and a fresh appeal has been applied for) as apparently the Job centre received notification from WBC that my daughter was in constant contact with me (quite what that means or how it affects matters I have no idea) but as a result of this they felt that I should support her and withdrew her benefit. My daughter is 20.

 

Yes every decision made on this, the previous, and my daughters accounts seem to have one person within Wirral Borough Council in common.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Keep Smiling

[Keep Smiling]

In order that this may be reviewed you must provide evidence of your residence and that you are registered for Council Tax elsewhere. Also, in order that I may consider making Mr xxx liable, he must provide me with sufficient evidence of his tenancy and residency.

 

OK you have done that

 

This, coupled with proof of your residency elsewhere may allow me to review your liability

 

have you provided them with proof of your residency elsewhere

 

I have spoken to two other landlords in the area, both have said that Council Tax is always the tenants responsibility (in their agreements) and that all they or their tenant has ever had to do for it to be put in their name is to make a quick phone call,

 

correct unless its a house of multiple occupancy

 

Not entirely sure how this works but someone has mentioned a Form 4 regarding his conduct and misrepresentation.

 

As far as I'm aware the only form 4 i know about is when your taking a bailiff court for unlawful fee /levy

 

Which bring me to another question

have they ever tried to enforce any of the debts using bailiffs of have they gone immediately for bankruptcy ?

 

 

They have had (what I consider) adequate proof of my tenant and his tenancy.

 

They have been provided with my address, but wont send items to it and kept it from the County Court when making a request for substituted service.

 

This is a single occupancy dwelling (incidentally they won't give that discount either)

 

I think the Form 4 was on the basis that charges were made by John Fielden for "attempted service" visits he made on the property, when he had never actually been there (I would suggest) and didn't know where it was.

I did ring Arkline today to speak to one of their managers about him and that I didn't believe he had made any previous visits based on him not knowing where the property was and asking in several shops if they were that property, She replied that Mr Fielden had been with them for many years (quite what that proves I don't know) and that he might serve up to ten different addresses each day all over the NorthWest and might not recall every address. I pointed out that he had been into a newsagents asking if they were that property, a chip shop and a phone shop before he was told it was a side door in another street. If he had been there before and served paperwork there before he would remember that, and if not, would know if he'd attempted service on a chip shop or not. She said she would have to read the file and speak to him on his return but they supported their server totally (no shock there then).

 

Apparently Wirral Borough Council have sent bailiffs to the address looking for me regarding this, but the only person they have ever met at the address is the tenant, their paperwork shows that he proved his identity with various bills and credit cards in his name.

[Keep Smiling]

I may be missing something but why dont you just prove via documentation that you were paying council tax somewhere else- this would obviously solve the problem as you cant be classed as living at two main residences?

 

If you dont have this i can see why the council are reluctant to believe you.

 

If only it were that easy, there is actually a considerable crossover in the Council Tax for THIS property and the Council Tax for the property they obtained the bankruptcy for in 2006, when I pointed out that I couldn't possibly be living for several years in two places at once and so one or the other MUST be wrong they told me that I didn't actually need to live there to be responsible for the Council Tax.

 

I thought only teenagers had an answer for everything.

[Keep Smiling]

I refute my liability for the these orders, and would ask for a short adjournement to enable Wirral Borough Council to consider liability. At this time my tenant has contacted WBC and accepted that he holds responsibilty and officers for WBC have requested additional paperwork which at this time they have not considered.

The Bankruptcy Petition being made by Substituted Service must under (r6.18(1) and (2)) have allowed a minimum of 21 days to elapse (normally 14 but an extra 7 for postage under substituted service rules). Although the Court issued the Petition within that time and ordered Drydens to serve such they did not post it (by their own Prepaid Postmark/Frank) until 3rd June 2011. This obviously does not allow this minimum period to elapse for a case to be heard on 21st June. There is a note on the Petition that service may be considered valid 2 days after postage, however (r6.18(1) and (2)) still allow a 21 day grace period before a hearing can be listed.

I would also ask for an adjournement on the basis that this amount can be paid in full within 28 days. My tenant has admitted liability and in order to expediate matters it makes financial sense for myself to pay these funds and then allow my long-standing tenant to repay me. The debt is secure in that assets held by myself far exceed that of the amount claimed. The serving solicitors Drydens in this very court only a few month ago made statement that they had a valuation on the property concerned, along with details from my mortgage holder which showed in excess of £40,000 in equity. The bill they provided of £35,000 has been paid and although they are in the process of doing so the lien on the property has yet to be removed so there is no reason to suggest that such equity would no longer exist.

Wirral Borough Council, and I would imagine that they have passed this information to their agents Drydens, do have an address for serving documents upon myself, nowhere upon the petition do I see this material fact disclosed and I would also ask if the Court were made aware of these details in the full and frank disclosure required of the petitioner.

Dated

14th June 2011

To the

Birkenhead County Court

court

and to Drydens, solicitor for the petitioner.

[hallowitch]

i wondered why your council was taking you to court for an address in wales now Ive got it the owner of the property lives in wales (thanks for clearing that up)

 

A formal complaint must be done in writing and addresses FOR THE ATTENTION OF Mr xxxx Chief executive

 

I always hand deliver all letters to my local authority and ask them to put exactly whats written on the envelope on the receipt i also ask them to put the time date and persons name who has accepted the letter

 

A subject access will cost you £10 they have 40 days to provide the information you want everything relating to your entire history with the council and you must ask for all internal and external information, including phone calls . computer screenshots ,hand written notes ,e-mails internal and external

 

also make sure that you put the payment has to used for the subject access request only and not to be used for any other purpose

 

The court wont hold any information about the liability orders only the council will have this

 

why have you not been to a solicitor ?

[hallowitch]

If only it were that easy, there is actually a considerable crossover in the Council Tax for THIS property and the Council Tax for the property they obtained the bankruptcy for in 2006, when I pointed out that I couldn't possibly be living for several years in two places at once and so one or the other MUST be wrong they told me that I didn't actually need to live there to be responsible for the Council Tax.

 

that is correct however it must be either , a house of multiple occupancy, no one occupying it ( no Tennant. ) and of course you must own it

 

to be responsible for council tax at an address you do not live in

[hallowitch]

send something like this

Date

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

Please provide full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with xxxx council I have enclosed the statutory maximum of £10.

For the avoidance of doubt, take note that the enclosed cheque is payment for the fee relating to my Subject Access Request only and not a payment of any other kind or to be used for any other purpose. If you do not require a fee in order to process my Subject Access Request then kindly return my cheque. /payment

For your convenience I have detailed below a list of what I require, although this is not an exhaustive list by any means and is just an example of some of the information I require with regard to any accounts I may have had or may still have with your company.

list what you want

[Keep Smiling]

If only it were that easy, there is actually a considerable crossover in the Council Tax for THIS property and the Council Tax for the property they obtained the bankruptcy for in 2006, when I pointed out that I couldn't possibly be living for several years in two places at once and so one or the other MUST be wrong they told me that I didn't actually need to live there to be responsible for the Council Tax.

 

that is correct however it must be either , a house of multiple occupancy, no one occupying it ( no Tennant. ) and of course you must own it

 

to be responsible for council tax at an address you do not live in

 

 

The property relating to 2006 is not a house of muliple occupancy (single bedroomed flat).

 

It did have somebody occupying it (Mr Cxxx Mxxx and his partner, who has told WBC that he lived there)

 

I do not now (nor have I ever) owned it.

 

WBC seem to interpret those rules differently.

[Keep Smiling]

send something like this

Date

Data Protection Act 1998 Subject Access Request

Please provide full and complete copies of any and all data you hold which relates to me and my entire history with xxxx council I have enclosed the statutory maximum of £10.

For the avoidance of doubt, take note that the enclosed cheque is payment for the fee relating to my Subject Access Request only and not a payment of any other kind or to be used for any other purpose. If you do not require a fee in order to process my Subject Access Request then kindly return my cheque. /payment

For your convenience I have detailed below a list of what I require, although this is not an exhaustive list by any means and is just an example of some of the information I require with regard to any accounts I may have had or may still have with your company.

list what you want

 

 

Thank you very much for that, I'll use it as a template and basically ask for everything.

 

The main items I want are copies of internal memos and emails concerning all of these properties.

 

I'm just waiting for WBC to spend the next 40 days looking at it and then saying that I am not entitled to any information on the property from 2006 because I don't own the property and have never lived there. Would anyone like to take bets on this ?

[MARTIN3030]

Yes a full SAR would be a good idea-though I cant imagine how long it will take to go through it-I bet there will be enough of your data to fill a transit van.

[Keep Smiling]

Yes a full SAR would be a good idea-though I cant imagine how long it will take to go through it-I bet there will be enough of your data to fill a transit van.

 

 

Oh I'm almost certain of it.

 

I brought up at one hearing that I'd never received the Liability Orders, now as I'd never lived at the address this was quite true, in reply the Council over the next few weeks produced over two hundred pages of "evidence" (which had nothing whatsoever to do with what I'd asked but it looked impressive) detailing how many LO's had been applied for (no details on any of them, and throughout the entire 200 plus pages nothing which gave any indication whatsoever that any of them related to anything other than "numbers"), how many had been posted, where they had been posted, who by, what time, what method they had used, how many had been special presented, how many had been returned, how many had been notified as lost in post (if it was lost in the post how would you know you hadn't received it ?), it was just incredible the numbers they could produce and the pages they could fill with absolute meaningless drivel, which in the end boiled down to.

 

We sent out a lot of forms.

None of them were brought back to us by the Post Office.

We don't know if anything concerning you was in there or not, but we think it was.

 

Maybe THAT's why they need the Council Tax payments so much.

[MARTIN3030]

I have done 3 Council SARs one for myself and 2 for relatives.

They will send info grouped in batches -so for example payments will be in one pile that cover xxx years.

but I have noticed in all 3 I have done that they dont make it easy to reconcile.

You have to literally go through everything page by page and reconcile everything to each year or CT period.

Where it can get confusing is where there are some docs which contain info from 2 accounts.

 

As you may have been told,screenshots can provide some powerful stuff,but in a SAR you would need to be specific.

If you know what you are looking for before you make the request,then you are half way there.

Funnily enough,before they released mine,they informed me that it was being looked at by their legal team,I guess they do this as a matter of course-but I still managed to find an overcharge of £100 when it eventually arrived,which they were quite quick to credit when I pulled them up about it.

[Keep Smiling]

Update:

 

Went into WBC today to give them the SAR, no-one had ever heard of it before and no-one wanted to take it.

They then sent off for somebody "higher" who came in and told me that I must mean an FOI act request, I explained that it wasn't, although I would be making one (or two). He told me that he couldn't accept a SAR, that they didn't deal with money so couldn't take the payment for it, and that I should use the FOI request as that was free, and could be made online, (I sense a few of them being filed).

 

Eventually he phoned the person who deals with FOI requests, apparently they are on leave today (I'm sure the place would burst at the seams if everybody actually turned up one day), but gave me her address and said I should post it to her. I explained that I wasn't going to do that, so he said that if I went back in tomorrow he'd scan all the documents and send them off, but still couldn't take a payment for it (so that's going to get rejected then).

 

I'm going over to Wallasey Town Hall tomorrow, and perhaps not actually tell them who I am until I find someone that isn't on leave.

 

Drydens have read my 6.19 (well, I read it to them over the phone, they agreed to accept electronic service but as "it can take some time for their mail to be routed", they said they'd call back if there was any problem, no call back, no problem). They listened and said that my proposal sounded "reasonable" and they they had no issues with it, hopefully this means that they won't oppose it next week, might take the funds with me just in case (they still wont tell me how much it is in total, just that it's £4k plus fees, although over 1k of that is for the coming year, and 25% should be removed as single occupancy as they can't have it both ways).

 

Should I take cash, or would a cheque book/bankers card/credit card be adequate ?

[Keep Smiling]

Although I've always suspected that Kit Chan might be acting outside (or exceeding) her authority it wasn't until I actually started to write all this that I realised how many of these roads lead back to her, I'm wondering if I can make a request to ask if she knows me in any way outiside of this matter, if she has had dealings with any of my businesses or if her friends or family are in any way connected with any competition to those businesses. Would WBC have to supply that information ?

 

Interestingly after a search I found her name on the North West Improvement and Efficiency website, a (government funded) site which exists to promote clarity and efficiency within the local area, especially in its contracts.

 

Now Malcolm Flanagan, and a few days ago Neil Pxxxx (he said he wouldn't read external sites so I presumed he would not agree to his name being published) said that Kit Chan had no connection whatsoever with Housing Benefits (this was in connection with my daughter having her benefits removed) and that I had obviously made a mistake and that she only worked within Council Tax, so why, on the http://www.nwiep.org.uk/ website when looking through the contracts archive do I find:

 

https://www.thechest.nwce.gov.uk/procontract/proregister.nsf/fcontent?ReadForm&requesttype=viewcontract&region=REG-NWCE-77WE5K&authority=ORG-NWCE-7UGD9E&docid=CS-DSIN-86EH85&sd=&stype=&rv=authority&start=1&count=20&contentid=1.003

 

The "owners" name seems very familiar.

 

If anyone can publish that page to here would be grateful.

[hallowitch]

Went into WBC today to give them the SAR, no-one had ever heard of it before and no-one wanted to take it.

They then sent off for somebody "higher" who came in and told me that I must mean an FOI act request,

 

completely separate things a FOI request is to access official information

 

A SAR is obtain information held about you

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_the_public/official_information/how_access.aspx

 

 

How can I access official information?

 

 

What can I request?

 

The Freedom of Information Act and Environmental Information Regulations give you rights to access official information. The Environmental Information Regulations give you specific rights to obtain environmental information.

 

 

You have a right to request any recorded information held by a public authority, such as a government department, local council or state school. Environmental information requests can also be made to certain non-public bodies carrying out a public function.

• You can ask for any information you think a public authority may hold. The right only covers recorded information which includes information held on computers, in emails and in printed or handwritten documents as well as images, video and audio recordings.
  
• You should identify the information you want as clearly as possible.
  
• Your request can be in the form of a question, rather than a request for specific documents, but the authority does not have to answer your question if this would mean creating new information or giving an opinion or judgement that is not already recorded.
  
• Some information may not be given to you because it is exempt, for example because it would unfairly reveal personal details about somebody else.
  

You don’t have to know whether the information you want is covered by the Environmental Information Regulations or the Freedom of Information Act. When you make a request, it is for the public authority to decide which law they need to follow.

What should I do before I make a request?

 

 

You can ask for any information you choose, at any time, but you may not always succeed in getting it. Before you make a request, it may help to consider the following questions.

• Is the information you want already available, for example, on the authority’s website?
  Authorities must make certain information routinely available. You can find out what information is available by checking the authority’s publication scheme or guide to information. Do this by looking at its website or by contacting the authority.
  
• Is the information you want your own personal data?
  If your request is for information about yourself, such as your medical records, you should make a subject access request under the Data Protection Act.
  
• Is the authority likely to have the information?
  It may save you time if you check with the authority whether it is likely to have the information you want. For example, you may not be sure whether the information you want is held by your district council or the county council. Public authorities must give reasonable advice and assistance to anyone asking for information, so you should feel free to ask for help in making your request.
  
• Is the information you want suitable for general publication?
  The aim of the Freedom of Information Act is to make information available to the general public. You can only obtain information that would be given to anybody who asked for it, or would be suitable for the general public to see.
  Some information, such as records about a dead relative, or documents you need for legal purposes, may not always be available under the Act. However, you may have a right to see the information you want under other legislation. The public authority holding the information you want should advise you.
  

What are the legal requirements for a request?

 

 

For your request to be dealt with according to the Freedom of Information Act, you must:

• contact the relevant authority directly;
  
• make the request in writing, for example in a letter or an email. You can make a verbal or written request for environmental information;
  
• give your real name; and
  
• give an address to which the authority can reply. This can be a postal or email address.
  

You do not have to:

• mention the Freedom of Information Act or Environmental Information Regulations, although it may help to do so;
  
• know whether the information is covered by the Freedom of Information Act or the Environmental Information Regulations; or
  
• say why you want the information.
  

It is sensible to write the date on any letters or emails you send and keep a copy, so you have a reliable record of your request. If you make a verbal request for environmental information, we recommend that you note who you spoke to, the date, and what information you requested, and you may wish to follow up with a letter or email confirming your request. A written record of a verbal request would be beneficial if you later need to make a complaint.

It can be helpful to check whether the authority recommends you send your request to a specific person or email address. Some authorities also allow you to request information via their website.

Some other websites allow you to contact public authorities and make a request through the site. Check that the site will allow the public authority to respond, otherwise it’s not a valid request.

The ICO cannot request information from another authority on your behalf. You should address your request directly to the authority. There is no need to send us a copy of your request.

How should I word my request?

 

 

Your request should set out clearly the information you want.

• You have a right to request the information, regardless of how it is recorded. You don’t have to specify particular documents.
  
• Be as clear as possible. If the authority isn’t sure what you want, it will have to ask you for further explanation.
  
• Try to pinpoint what you really want. In some cases your request may be refused if it would be too expensive or time consuming for the authority to deal with. The authority may also charge you for some expenses, such as photocopying. If necessary, start by asking for a list of the information available about the topic.
  
• Where possible, ask for specific information rather than using open-ended questions. ‘What or ‘how much’ are more likely to get a useful response than ‘why’.
  
• Use straightforward, polite language; avoid basing your request or question on assumptions or opinions, or mixing requests with complaints or comments.
  
• Say how you would prefer to receive the information, for example, electronically or as a hard copy, if available?
  

[Keep Smiling]

Further Update:

 

Attended Birkenhead County Court, WBC's solicitors (in Bradford) had appointed an agent (from Birkenhead) to attend on their behalf.

 

It was agreed that the case should be adjourned for a minimum of 28days.

 

I pointed out to their agent that I needed a copy of the process servers affidavit.

 

The judge asked about costs, the agent said that he expected me to pay them, I pointed out that as the main solicitor had delayed so long in sending out the paperwork that an adjournement would have been required anyway due to short service. The agent said that he had no knowledge about this and had not been informed otherwise, the judge kindly pointed out that this WAS contained within the 6.19 and he hoped that he had read it. Costs were reserved until the next meeting.

 

I see that someone else has joined this forum with a similar problem, also with WBC and the same person dealing with it and refusing to give any help or act in a reasonable manner, That pattern seems to be getting stronger, but at least now I know that this is inherrant within WBC and it's not personal