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    • Hi. Welcome to CAG. How was the car purchased?  
    • Absolutely for the agreement they are referring to.... puts them on notice that this is going to be a uphill fight.   Andy 
    • Particular's of claim for reference only 1. the claim is for the sum of £6163.61due by the defendant under an agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 for hsbc uk bank plc. Account (16 digits) 2. The defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required by the agreement and a default notice was served under s 87(1)  of the consumer credit act 1974 which as not been compiled with. 3. The debt was legally assigned to the Claimant on 23/08/23, notice on which as been given to the defendant.  4. The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the county courts act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue of these proceedings in the sum of £117.53 the Claimant claims the sum of £6281.14. Suggested defence 1. The Defendant contends the particulars of the claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.3 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. The claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre action protocol) failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st of October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant 7.1 PAPDC. 3. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings but do not recognise this specific account number or recollect any outstanding debt and have therefore requested clarification. 4. Paragraph 2 is denied. I have not been served with a default notice pursuant to the consumer credit act 1974. 5. Paragraph 3 is denied. i am unaware of any legal assignment or notice of assignment. A copy of assignment was sent by Overdales solicitors when acknowledgement of receipt of CPR request was received, but this was not the original.   6. Paragraph 4 is denied. Neither the original creditor or the assignee have served notice pursuant to sec86c of the Credit Consumer Act 1974 Notice of Sums in Arrears and therefore prevented from charging interest on debt regulated by the CCA1974. 7. The defendant submitted a request for a copy of the alleged agreement pursuant to s78 CCA 1974. The claimant has acknowledged receipt of request but has failed to comply. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence of balance or Default Notice requested by CPR 31.14 8. It is therefore denied with regards to defendant owing any monies to the claimant. therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to:  a.  Show how the defendant has entered into an agreement with HSBC. b.  Show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a Default notice pursuant to section 87 (1) CCA 1974. c.  Show and quantify how the defendant has reached the amount claimed for. d.  Show how the claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity  to issue a claim. 8.  As per civil procedure rule 16.5 (4) it is expected claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 9.  Until such time the claimant can comply to a section 78 request he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement 10. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.     .
    • OK, well rereading the court orders from March, in the cold light of day rather than when knackered late at night, it is quite clear that on 25 June there will only be a preliminary hearing about Laura representing her son.  Nothing more. It's lazy DCBL who haven't read things properly and have stupidly sent their Witness Statement early. Laura & I had already been working on a WS, and here it is.  It needs tweaking now after reading the rubbish that DCBL sent and after all of LFI's comments.  But the "meat" is there. Defendant's WS - version 1.pdf
    • Morning, I purchased a car from Big Motoring World on 10th December 2023 for £14899.00. On the 15th December I had a problem with the auto start stop function of the car in which the car would stop in the middle of the road with a stop start error message. I called the big assist and the car was booked in for February. The BMW was with them for a week and it came back with the auto stop start feature all fine and all error codes cleared on the report from big motoring world. within 5 days I had the same issue. Warning light coming on and the car stopping. I called big assist again and the car was again booked in for an other repair in May. Car was taken back in may, they had the car for a week and returned with the report saying no issue with the auto stop start feature and blamed my driving. Within 5 days of having the car back it broke down again. This time undrivable. I had the rac pick my car up and take to Stephen James BMW for a full diagnostic. The diagnostic came back with the car needing a new fuel system as magnetic swarf was found.  I have sent big motoring world a letter stating all the issues and that under the consumer rights act 2015 I have asked for a replacement vehicle. all reports from Stephen James BMW have been sent over to big motoring world. Big motoring world have come back and said they will respond to my complaint within 14 days for the date of my complaint letter. I am not feeling confident on the response from them, what are my next steps?   Thanks in advance. 
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Hi,

 

My wife is being chased by AK regarding a 2004 Egg credit card which she was paying instalments in until about 18 months ago when we found this site.

 

We SAR AK and eventuially they sent us a copy of her application (the standard sort of one..) and several unsigned pages of T&C's.

 

I felt that there were the usual bits missing after reserarching here and so ignored it. However she recieved today a letter from Judge & Priestley demanding payment.

 

What does the CG collective recommend?

 

JPletter28thapril2011edited.jpg

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subbing - received exactly the same letter this morning. Exact same circumstances too.

GE MONEY - DEBENHAMS CARD

Settled in full after prelim :)

 

MBNA

Settled after LBA

however mistake made by me on contractual interest so going after the rest now

SETTLED IN FULL JAN 2007:)

 

MINT

Offer after prelim rejected

Settled in full after LBA:)

 

to go:

Barclays Bus Ac - to mcol

Barclays CC - to mcol

Nat West (over 6 years) no action taken yet

Creation Financial - awaiting statements since Dec

Goldfish - offer after prelim rejected

and some more

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Hi Ilb & Tink

 

If You haven't already send a CCA request to AK . . http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?414-CCA-request-letter. (Enclose £1 PO/Print do not sign your name and send recorded del) . . this will see if they in fact have the appropriate agreement and if no full reply after 12+2 working days the account goes into dispute and collection activity must stop until they comply

 

Also send a copy of the request (No fee though) to J & P so they know what you've done

 

Good luck

 

R

 

ps . . J & P say you can pay by Credit Card which goes against OFT Guidelines as they should not encourage extending borrowing to pay debts

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I asked them to wait whilst I got my Bank card :violin:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Information that may help if a CCA request is refused due to the lack of a signature . . http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?248863-Signature-demands-fight-back-possible-!&highlight=

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send them this,

 

Dear Sirs

 

I refer to your letter of XXXXX 2008, the content of which is noted. No debt to your client is acknowledged.

 

On (date) I made a formal request to your client pursuant to s.78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. They have failed to comply within the statutory time limit, or at all. It should not be necessary to have to remind solicitors that the provisions of s.78(6) now apply.

 

In the circumstances, your/your clients threat of legal action would appear to be a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Tradinglink3.gif Regulations 2008 and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on debt collectionlink3.gif. Should you or your client bring proceedings, they will be robustly defended, and the Court's attention drawn to the above statutory breaches . Furthermore, I reserve the right to bring the conduct of your client to the Court when the issue of costs is being considered.

 

Note: The lack of a valid consumer credit agreement is a complete defense in court.

 

If there is any further letters from you attempting to collect this disputed account, you will be charged a admin fee of £25 and reported to the Solicitors Regulation Authority.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Print name do not sign.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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Ilikebanks,

What did you actually receive in response to your previous SAR - I received a signed cca with APPROVED stamped on it and 21 pages of terms and conditions. The agreement does not contain the credit limit. I dont know whether the "so called agreement" is enforceable in itself because I am not sure what it should contain.

GE MONEY - DEBENHAMS CARD

Settled in full after prelim :)

 

MBNA

Settled after LBA

however mistake made by me on contractual interest so going after the rest now

SETTLED IN FULL JAN 2007:)

 

MINT

Offer after prelim rejected

Settled in full after LBA:)

 

to go:

Barclays Bus Ac - to mcol

Barclays CC - to mcol

Nat West (over 6 years) no action taken yet

Creation Financial - awaiting statements since Dec

Goldfish - offer after prelim rejected

and some more

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@TIINK

 

It should contain prescribed terms, credit limit being one of them along with apr etc.

 

Can you post it up on here using photo bucket minus your personal details.

 

@ILIKEBANKS

 

Send SAR to AK

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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Who would I send a SAR to, the solicitor or AK?

 

 

Why do you want to send another SAR ???

 

R

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I asked them to wait whilst I got my Bank card :violin:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Information that may help if a CCA request is refused due to the lack of a signature . . http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?248863-Signature-demands-fight-back-possible-!&highlight=

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Who would I send a SAR to, the solicitor or AK?

 

Also send CCA to AK if you haven't already done so. But to be honest you should not need to send a SAR to AK as all you need if the credit agreement from them for now. a sar is something you generally send to the original creditor not a DCA or Solicitor.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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teaboy,

Sorry I cant post agreement as I dont have a scanner, would the letter above apply to me as well? There is definitely no credit limit on the agreement though but apr is.

GE MONEY - DEBENHAMS CARD

Settled in full after prelim :)

 

MBNA

Settled after LBA

however mistake made by me on contractual interest so going after the rest now

SETTLED IN FULL JAN 2007:)

 

MINT

Offer after prelim rejected

Settled in full after LBA:)

 

to go:

Barclays Bus Ac - to mcol

Barclays CC - to mcol

Nat West (over 6 years) no action taken yet

Creation Financial - awaiting statements since Dec

Goldfish - offer after prelim rejected

and some more

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I have'nt sent a SAR to them yet.

 

 

I'm confused as this is from your first post . .

 

" We SARlink3.gif AK and eventuially they sent us a copy of her application (the standard sort of one..) and several unsigned pages of T&C's. "

 

If you didn't send a SAR request what did you send to get the info they sent back

 

R

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] I asked them to wait whilst I got my Bank card :violin:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Information that may help if a CCA request is refused due to the lack of a signature . . http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?248863-Signature-demands-fight-back-possible-!&highlight=

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teaboy,

Sorry I cant post agreement as I dont have a scanner, would the letter above apply to me as well? There is definitely no credit limit on the agreement though but apr is.

 

If any of the following are missing then the agreement is not in the prescribed form and as such unenforceable meaning the letter i suggest above applies to you.

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

  • amount of credit – see Q8.

 

  • credit limit – see Q8.5 Which you said was missing

  • rate of interestlink3.gif – see Q8.6
  • repayments – see Q8.9.
  • Also terms and conditions must be contained within the same 4 corners of the same piece of paper, front or back. If on the back they must be a reference to the terms and conditions being overleaf on the front.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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Thanks teaboy, letter going out in the post tomorrow morning, no credit limit, no repayments and terms and conditions on 21 additional a4 pages

GE MONEY - DEBENHAMS CARD

Settled in full after prelim :)

 

MBNA

Settled after LBA

however mistake made by me on contractual interest so going after the rest now

SETTLED IN FULL JAN 2007:)

 

MINT

Offer after prelim rejected

Settled in full after LBA:)

 

to go:

Barclays Bus Ac - to mcol

Barclays CC - to mcol

Nat West (over 6 years) no action taken yet

Creation Financial - awaiting statements since Dec

Goldfish - offer after prelim rejected

and some more

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well I got the usual stuff back from AK after the request under the CCA.

 

Copyofeggagreementpage1.jpg

Copyofeggp2.jpg

 

I also got back the current t&c's running to 7 A4 pages and 23 different headings.

There were also some earlier t&c's runnint to just 2 pages and 19 headings. There were no signautures or dates on either sets of terms and conditions.

 

An interesting point is that on the application and the older t&c's, at the top of the page is a web address (www.egg.com/banking/investing/insuring)

 

I presume this means that they are held on a microfiche and therefore are copies. That web address does not work today either.

 

I have read the CPUTR thread, but wonder if there is a template I could send, given the info above?

Edited by Ilike banks
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That all ak sent, signature looks part of egg agreement wheres the other part?? as for t&c they need to be when the card was first taken not the current. They chancing their arm here has this got any ppi on?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well hooray! Just got a similar CC claim form today.

 

I am pretty certain they are out of order as I don't think the paperwork is correct. All I have received is about a ream of statements, a copy of the signed agreement and some undated and unsigned terms and conditions.

 

However, is a deficient agreement still enough to win - there seems to be some feeling on CAG that judges are finding in favour of the claimant anyway.

 

Here's both pages again.

 

eggagreementpage1.jpg

 

 

 

Copyofeggagreementpage1.jpg

 

eggp2.jpg

Edited by Ilike banks
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Well hooray! Just got a similar CC claim form today.

 

I am pretty certain they are out of order as I don't think the paperwork is correct. All I have received is about a ream of statements, a copy of the signed agreement and some undated and unsigned terms and conditions.

 

However, is a deficient agreement still enough to win - there seems to be some feeling on CAG that judges are finding in favour of the claimant anyway.

 

Here's both pages again.

 

eggagreementpage1.jpg

 

 

 

Copyofeggagreementpage1.jpg

 

eggp2.jpg

 

Am I too late to ask them if they have the original document under CPUTR 2008? I guess I need to sort out a defence to this issue PDQ, so any help would be gratefully recieved.

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will without anything on those documents referring to any terms and conditions overleaf (T & C's must be within the same 4 corners of the same document), then i would say its unenforceable. Problem is will they produce the original in court with the terms on the back which would then be enforceable. If the conditions were on a seperate document then they may well be screwed.

 

Who owns the debt, have you ever had a notice of assignment? Default notice?

 

@Tink

 

I sent you the pm with my fax number it over the weekend, did you get it?

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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They have sent me some terms and conditions which run to 4 pages and are separate to the 2 page agreement above. There is no cross referencing. This mess was previously in the hands of two other well known agencies dating from 2008. I have previously sent both of those agencies 'account in dispute' letters after receipt from them of non compliant agreements.

 

At one point I have received a blank version of the docs above, with page one and two being on the same piece of paper. I am fairly sure all the files are stored on a computer hard drive somewhere judging by the network address on the top of the page. Also, the terms and conditions I received at one point were in the form of pc screenshots.

 

 

I have never received a notice of assignment from anyone, which I understand have to be sent, according to the 1925 property Act, by recorded delivery.

 

Not sure about a default notice I'm afraid.

 

And nope, didn't get a fax number in my pm box either. :)

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The Fax number was ment for TINK as he/she doesn't have a scanner so i offered to scan them up for them if they can fax them to me.

 

Sounds to me as if you have evidence of many different documents that were supposedly the agreement, so you may have prove that the docs are fabrications, as if they have the original then we produce so many different documents not resembling each other.

 

Yes if Egg have sold the account to the DCA then they must issue you a default notice under section 87 of the CCA, selling an account and failing to issue a default is inlawful rescission which prevents the debt being enforced in court. Do not mention this till we know for certain you have not received a default notice and that the account has definitely been sold.

 

And yes you should have received a notice of assignment confirming the debt was sold

 

Best thing would be the SAR Egg to find out if it has been sold and if default notice was issued.

Please note that this advice is given informally, without liability and without prejudice. Always seek the advice of an insured qualified professional. All my legal and nonlegal knowledge comes from either here (CAG),my own personal research and experience and/or as the result of necessity as an Employer and Businessman.

 

By using my advice in any form, you agreed to waive all rights to hold myself or any persons representing myself of any liability.

 

If you PM me, make sure to include a link to your thread as I don't give out advice in private. All PMs that are sent in missuse (including but not limited to phinishing, spam) of the PM application and/or PMs that are threatening or abusive will be reported to the Site Team and if necessary to the police and/or relevant Authority.

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If you have received a claim form, then you need to decide if you are going to defend the claim and and on what grounds. It is extremely difficult to defend claims on the grounds of unenforceability nowadays. So you will need to challenge the standing of the claimant, especially if you havent received a Notice of Assignment, and yes you are correct, it should have been sent to you by recorded delivery post.

 

You can request any documents mentioned in the claim via CPR31.14.. you will find a draft letter in the first post of the link below. Read it carefully and amend where necessary.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445-Getting-Them-To-Reveal-Their-Vitals.-Using-CPR-31.14-to-Your-Advantage

 

Please be aware you need to keep on top of your timing..

 

Date of issue of claim form - top right hand side under claim number.. add 5 days to that to allow for receipt. You then get a further 14 days to acknowledge the claim form and advise whetehr you are going to defend or not. If you are then you will receive a further 14 days.

 

If you can let us know what it says exactly on the claim form .. the particulars of claim.. then we can help further.

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