Me to Challenge HFC Bank

[ims21]

Hi all

 

I have received help elsewhere on the forum for mortgage matters and, having read through a lot of the threads here, I would like to start a process to get my charges etc back from HFC Bank.

 

I am starting to get my finances back on an even keel and I wonder of I could get some advice on the following scenario please.

 

I took out an HFC Current Account Plus in 1988 and all ran very well until I hit my downturn in about 2006/2007.

 

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that I got into arrears etc. etc.

 

HFC issued a defaul notice under S87(1) CCA 1974 in Feb 2009 ( I have the document). Since then I have made sporadic payments and have been threatened by the likes of CapQuest and HL Legal for doorstep visits and further action. Thisd I can handle at the moment (but will come back for advice iof they get too heavy).

 

I have many of my statements (but not all) and they stopped when the default was issued.

 

On the statements I can see things like Admin Fee £15 (presumable for either being over limit or late with payment, Protection premiums (Appears to be a percentage of the balance outstanding) and a Default Fee of £50 at the time when they sent the default notice.

 

My questions are

 

1 Are the £15 Admin Fees lawful (there are a fair few of them)?

 

2 What about the £50 default fee?

 

3 The insurance appears to be PPI. How do establish whether I can claim this back given that the agreement was back in 1988? I am not sure how to establish whether it was mis-sold...I certainly didn't ask for it or want it.

 

4 Any ideas as to how far back I can go with the cliam, if indeed I do have a valid claim?

 

Subject to advice on the above I will SAR them to get the complete set of statements and other stuff and get to work.

 

Thanks in advance

[citizenB]

PPI on a current account ? Or is this some form of credit account ?

[ims21]

Hi

 

Thank you for your reply citizenB.

 

Their Current Account Plus product was, from memory, one of these accounts that you could use either as a bank account or a loan account. They gave you a credit limit and you could, if you wish, use that amount of credit. Unlike a bank overdraft, this account gave you a minimum monthly repayment should you use the overdraft facility so was operated like a credit card as far as I can see. They sent a monthly statement showing the transactions on the account and the minimum payment to be paid. While you were in the black, no Insurance premiums are put on the account.

 

I don't have the priginal agreement or application unfortunately.

 

I guess the account was set up under the CCA regs in force at that time becuase the default notice was issued under the CCA 1974.

 

Does this information help?

 

Thanks

[ims21]

Hi

 

Back again after digging around my statements.

 

Between the dates of July 2000 and February 2009 I have identified 45 Admin Fees of £15 each plus a returned cheque fee of £20 and the default fee of £50 which was applied to the account when they issued a default notice.

 

I feel I should be able to reclaim all of these plus restitutionary interest but does the default fee fall into the category of a charge that can be reclaimed.

 

Although I haven't got anything concrete or an answer to a previous post yet, I assume that as a default notice was issued under the CCA 1974 this is a credit agreement. Even if it is not, am I right in thinking that I should still be able to reclaim these charges plus the interest mentioned.

 

I am prepared to go all the way with them if need be but need some guidance please.

 

Would I be wise to CCA them to get a copy of the agreement or has anyone heard of the the HFC current account plus product?

 

Finally, CapQuest are currently attempting to collect the balance on this account so if it is necessary to get the copy of the agreement, should I send CapQuest the CCA request or send it directly to HFC?

 

Thanks in advance

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

If Capquest are dealing with the account send the CCA request to them.

Reclaiming charges from a Current Account is a bit of a non starter because of the result in the Court Case, Credit Card charges are still reclaimable.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

So I guess I need to be sure what type of agreement is it is and the only way to do that is to CCA to get the agreement. Certainly it wasn't a credit card but it was a credit agreement. Does this make a difference? If it comes back and it says that it is a credit agreement regulated under the 1974 Act, does this make a difference?

 

Also, there was PPI taken monthly on the account. How do I go about finding out the legitimacy of the PPI charges please?

 

Thanks again

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

Current Accounts are not regulated under the Act, send the CCA request and see what sort of responce you get.

 

Regarding the PPI have a look at the 'sticky's' at the top of the PPI Forum in this 'link'..........

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?111-Payment-Protection-Insurance-%28PPI%29

 

That should help you decide how to proceed.

[ims21]

Great

 

thanks for advice

 

Will update as and when

[ims21]

A little update.

 

Had a letter from ScotCall today stating that they had and amount of £XXXX due on this account and that they require immediate payment.

 

Going to send them a CCA first thing tomorrow and see what they come back with.

 

Regarding the PPI, I have read up on this and I can only find mention of "Up Front" payments or monthly premiums of regular amounts. My statements show varying amounts which were deducted once a month. They seem to be a percentage of the amount outstanding. Any ideas on this please?

 

Maybe the document I get from Scotcall will shed some light.

 

Also, I was actually self-employed when I took this out and I wasn't asked any questions about it. I was just told that it included a provision whereby if I was out of work or sick then the payments would be covered.

 

See what comes back from them (if indeed thay have the proper docs)

 

ims

Edited April 6, 2011 by ims21

[dx100uk]

you didn't indicate this one IMS.

 

see my threads - know these A/C 's well.

 

more once i've read your thread.

 

dx

[dx100uk]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?275079-dx100uk-v-hfc-ppi-account-3

 

i do not have the agreement

but there was one

but its been distroyed [more than 6 yrs closed]

 

FYI: its a LOAN and you can reclaim ALL the PPI payments

 

as for charges, sadly, i doubt you'll get any passed 6yrs old.

 

here are specimine docs from someone elses thread on here

[ims21]

Hi dx

 

Thanks for your time on this.

 

Thought it might be useful if I posted a statement for the Current Account Plus. As you can see I could write cheques on the account but it had a credit limit and the PPI payment is shown. It ws a fluid account, no fixed monthly payment, just a minimum (like a credit card) but with cheques instead of a card.

 

So it's a loan then. And qualifies to get the PPI back but the charges going back 6 years?

 

Also, didn't quite follow you in your previous post where you said "you didn't indicate this one IMS".

 

Also, PPI premiums plus restitutionary + simple or just premiums + simple?

 

Thanks again

 

HFC Statement.pdf

Edited April 6, 2011 by ims21

[dx100uk]

what i meant by the comment was

on the left under my name

 

its says i hate hfc

 

as i'm on one of your other thread i thought you might have spotted it and mentioned this thread........

 

the ppi reclaim will be the monthly PPI charge for that month + int at their rate for that month + 8% - till the date of your claim...do that for each payment to the date of your claim

 

dj1971 is about - ping him

 

FYI: my a/c was exactly the same but i never signed anything

i had to pay by cash over the branch counter

and they said the IC had to come out of another bank a/c

 

its with the FOS now

 

dx

 

 

dx

[ims21]

Oh right.....sorry...never thought to draw your attention to this one. I can see how you'd like to get your teeth into another HFC case.

 

As suggested I will try and get in touch with dj1971 and ask him to have a look in.

 

Thanks again

[ims21]

OK

 

So CCA has gone to Scotcall today. Unfortunately missed the collection for today so will be taken by Post Office on the 8th. Used a tamper-proof sig box from this site as I know that they will come back and ask for a sig.

 

By my reckoning 12+2 working days is 27 April

 

Lets see what they've got

 

ims

[ims21]

Received a reply from Scotcall today dated 11 April. Looks like they have dropped this like a Hot Spud as soon as they got the CCA. They have returned my original letter and the postal order.

 

So, is it now a CCA to Capquest please?

 

Thanks

 

ims

ScotCall CCA Reply.pdf

Edited April 13, 2011 by ims21

[ims21]

Hi all

 

I've been working on this charges/PPI claim and completed my spreadsheet for the PPI part. I have statements going back to 2000 and the amount of PPI charged from then is about the £2.5k mark. I have also calculated the compound interest which comes out to about the £12k mark using their average interest rate over the years.

 

Thing is, this claim is well over the £5k for small claims court. Can anyone point me in the direction of information on how to make a claim of this magnitude. I am of course assuming that I can claim compund interest on tis becasue they have had the use of my money on what I believe to be a mis sold PPI and charged me interest on it. Please correct me if I am wrong and if I can only claim the statutory interest should this go to court.

 

Thanks in advance

 

ims

[dx100uk]

Received a reply from Scotcall today dated 11 April. Looks like they have dropped this like a Hot Spud as soon as they got the CCA. They have returned my original letter and the postal order.

 

So, is it now a CCA to Capquest please?

 

Thanks

 

ims

so CQ sent SC around then?

 

i bet the cca does not exist,

like all HFC stuff of any amount of years, they destroyed everything when they found out the PPI investigation/fine was coming their way in an attempt to confuse reclaimers.

 

like me, you have the statements

but , as its stands, the FOS have fallen on HFC's side as 'in all probability' it [the IC protection] was sold properly.

i've now esc'll it to the ombudsman.

 

i'd not worry about the size of it,

just wait fir their final response [which will be bug off]

then go to the FOS

 

dx

[ims21]

Hi dx

 

Thanks for your reply. Well, SC didn't actually come round, they have written on a few occasions. So I sent them a CCA and they appear to have dropped it like a hot spud! claim they have sent it back to CQ. Will wait to see what comes fom CQ and I will CCA them as well (since SC sent me my postal order back).

 

So for this PPI, you think court is not going to work and fos is the place to be going?

 

Going to have a root around in the loft tonight to see if by any chance I have hung on to any really old papers from HFC which might help.

 

Thanks for your time dx

[dx100uk]

lets waits and see what you find.........

 

dx

[ims21]

Hi

 

Right, had a good rummage and cannot find any further docs from HFC so in summary this is where I'm at....

 

 

1. HFC Current Account Plus (Which I am told is one of their loan products) taken out in 1988
   
2. I have statements going back to early 2000
   
3. PPI paid to them monthly as a percentage of o/s amount on the account
   
4. From 2000 to 2009 some £750 in Admin Fees
   
5. I believe PPI mis sold as I was self employed and got no documents or interview regarding suitability of product
   
6. PPI from 2000 to 2009 amounts to about £2.5k
   
7. CI on this PPI is about the £12k mark
   
8. Looking to claim back the Admin Fees plus CI
   
9. Looking to claim back PPI plus CI
   
10. Looking dodgy as to whether HFC will have a CCA document
    

Just need some pointers on a couple of specifics if I may.

 

First, can the Admin Fees be claimed back on this type of account? If so, shall I start a claim for those and deal with the PPI as a seperate issue?

 

Second, Is the PPI claimable with CI given the mis-sold secription given above? Can this be done as a seperate claim fom the charges?

 

Third, if the PPI can be claimed and is well over the £5k small claim limit, what court route do I take for this?

 

Lastly, as I have statements going back to 2000 and not beyond, Can I just start my claims from that date and not bother about anything that happened before then? To be honest, if I were able to get the Admin Fees, PPI and CI on htme both from 2000, I'd be happy. OR should I really go to town, do the SAR on HFC and go for it right the way back to inception?

 

Thanks for any help you can give as I am now totally confused by this one.

 

All the best

 

ims

 

Edited April 18, 2011 by ims21

[ims21]

Hi

 

Having thought about this further, I am sure that the PPI was mis-sold. Would I be better posting for help on this in the PPI forum?

 

Also do I take it that I won't be able to claim these admin fees back for any period earlier than 2005 i.e. 6 years ago. If that is so I can leave the charges reclaim in this thread and seek advice on what will be a significant PPI claim in the PPI forum?

 

Thanks

[dx100uk]

Hi

 

Right, had a good rummage and cannot find any further docs from HFC so in summary this is where I'm at....

 

 

1. HFC Current Account Plus (Which I am told is one of their loan products) taken out in 1988
   
2. I have statements going back to early 2000
   
3. PPI paid to them monthly as a percentage of o/s amount on the account
   
4. From 2000 to 2009 some £750 in Admin Fees
   
5. I believe PPI mis sold as I was self employed and got no documents or interview regarding suitability of product
   
6. PPI from 2000 to 2009 amounts to about £2.5k
   
7. CI on this PPI is about the £12k mark
   
8. Looking to claim back the Admin Fees plus CI
   
9. Looking to claim back PPI plus CI
   
10. Looking dodgy as to whether HFC will have a CCA document
    

Just need some pointers on a couple of specifics if I may.

 

First, can the Admin Fees be claimed back on this type of account? If so, shall I start a claim for those and deal with the PPI as a seperate issue? - yes and sep claims

 

Second, Is the PPI claimable with CI given the mis-sold secription given above? Can this be done as a seperate claim fom the charges? - as it was a loan but has pcm ppi - you can compound it [bit like a credit card]

Third, if the PPI can be claimed and is well over the £5k small claim limit, what court route do I take for this? - i'd use fos.

Lastly, as I have statements going back to 2000 and not beyond, Can I just start my claims from that date and not bother about anything that happened before then? To be honest, if I were able to get the Admin Fees, PPI and CI on htme both from 2000, I'd be happy. OR should I really go to town, do the SAR on HFC and go for it right the way back to inception? - pers i'd sar hfc - lets see what comes out the woodwork

 

Thanks for any help you can give as I am now totally confused by this one.

 

All the best

 

ims

 

 

dx

[ims21]

Hi dx

 

Thanks for your time on this.

 

Will do the SAR for HFC by the end of the week

 

Do you still think I can only go back 6 years for the Admin fees. I have the Cap1 credit card claim where I am going back to 2001 and you liken this type of HFC account to a credit card (rolling credit etc).

 

One final point, I have read the PPI forum extensively and some seem to go to fos and others go the court route. I don't understand what issues dictate what the best route is for a PPI cliam. Any advice?

 

Sorry to keep asking this stuff but I am slowly learning and am very nearly ready to have a go at this bunch.

 

Many thanks

 

ims

[ims21]

Hi there

 

Just an update.

 

Sent off SAR and got a letter back asking for proof of ID. Supplied copy of driving licence with photo and signature removed so it basically confirms name and address. Their letter is headed "Loan Agreement" followed by the account number. Told them that there was no requirement for me to supply this proof and that as far as I was concerned they were alreadys satisfied as to my ID when they were chasing me for payments and to get on with sending me my documents. I consider the 40 days time limit runs from the date of the first SAR.

 

As this is effectively confirmed as a loan (which the SAR will probably back up) I am now more convinced that this is available for claiming back the charges/admin fees etc (rather like a credit Card) in addition to the PPI.

 

When I get the SAR documents back I will start a PPI thread but just wanted to make sure that a claim for the charges is valid now that we know it is a loan agreement.

 

Thanks

 

ims