cabot - citicard impending court action

[andy_l]

Hi Guys

I've had a reply from the court with a standard order for stay.

As far as I can see, the claimant will apply for a further extension if tyhey have not received the CCA or we both go to court to fill out another allocation questionnaire and proceed to do battle.

Any advice please?

 

Also I have Apex threatening to take me to the small claims court in respect of a TSB credit card debt of just over £1k, are the rules the same insomuch as a default notice should be served and a valid CCa and statement of account should be produced etc etc?

 

rgds

andy_l

order for stay 29032011.doc

[coledog]

Good - it looks like this has been stayed, which is what we were hoping. They can come back at you in future but hopefully have got the message.

 

Re Apex , you need to send them a CCA request - do you need the links? May be worth starting a new thread on this one, on Debt Collection Forum. Some info on how old this is etc would be useful and you may need some info from TSB but I would not worry about it

[andy_l]

Hi Guys

I've had a resonse from morgans in view of trying to settle the claim before going to court, see attached.

Not sure what my response should be.

I did offer a settlement figure of approx 18% previouysly but this was declined, so I guess I should remove this offer.

Also should I waffle on about not being provided with a CCA or complete statement of account, having been trying to get one since Sept 2009.

rgds

Andy

settleneg1.doc

[vjohn82]

You can reply that you made a genuine offer of settlement but that their conduct in failing to comply with the CCA has led you to believe that this matter should be decided by the courts.

 

Restate whatever offer you want to make, if any, and simply restate that the flaws in their case.

 

Make sure you make them aware that conduct works both ways ;-)

[andy_l]

thanks vj

rgds

andy_l

[andy_l]

Hi Guys

I need to start two new threads, one for lloydstsb visa and the other for lloydstsb mastercard.

I'm struggling to see how to do that.

Can anyone advise please?

thanks

andy_l

[DonkeyB]

For the Debt Collection forum go here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?167-Debt-Collection-Industry

 

A little way down on the left is a button, entitled ‘+ Post New Thread’. Click this and away you go.

 

Similarly for the Legal forum:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?170-Legal-Issues

[andy_l]

thanks DonkeyB

[sequest]

Should DCA provide Default Notice if account has been sold by OC?

[andy_l]

Hi guys

I have to reply to the court by today with my negotiation settlement.....andy comments please

rgds

andy_l

 

Morgan Solicitors

5 Mitchell Court

Castle Mound Way

Rugby

CV23 0UY

27th April 2011

Cabot Reference:

In the Rugby County Court

Cabot -v-

Claim Number:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am in receipt of your letter dated 5th April 2011 in respect of a settlement negotiation and after due and careful consideration, I offer the following reply.

You will appreciate that I am defending myself and as such have no legal training in any such matters.

On 11th December 2010, I made, what I considered to be a fair and reasonable offer to the claimant’s client Cabot Financial (Europe) Limited of £xxxx.xx to settle the account in full without prejudice with financial help from my family. Obviously this offer has been declined. I therefore withdraw that offer.

Since September 2009, I have written various letters (in what I believed to be of the correct protocol and directed to the relevant parties) requesting a copy of the CCA and statement of account. To date I haven’t received this information.

It is of my opinion, that the claimant has not conducted their claim in a correct and orderly fashion, but rather that it has been based on intimidation.

The claimant has not sought to obtain a copy of the CCA or full statement of account prior to making their claim, which I would assume to be a pre-requisite to proving and enforcing the claimant’s claim. I would therefore question the validity of the served default notice and notice of assignment as the claimant is obviously in default of not having supplied a copy of the CCA and full statement of account thatI may view.

With this in mind, I see no alternative but to go to court, whereupon I shall be asking the court to strike out the claimant’s claim and award any costs against the claimant.

Yours sincerely,

 

[coledog]

Seems fine to me

[the_shadow]

Only thing I would say is that if you requested the information under s78 state that in the letter. Otherwise its concise and to the point

 

S.

[pt2537]

One pointer, i wouldn't use abbreviations, CCA while you may understand what it refers to, the person the other end may not.

 

also im baffled by this

 

The claimant has not sought to obtain a copy of the CCA or full statement of account prior to making their claim, which I would assume to be a pre-requisite to proving and enforcing the claimant’s claim. I would therefore question the validity of the served default notice and notice of assignment as the claimant is obviously in default of not having supplied a copy of the CCA and full statement of account thatI may view.

 

I dont see how the validity of the Default notice can be questioned, if the Claimant hasnt complied with s78 CCA 1974 for example as it would be the s78 breach which precludes the enforcement.

 

If the Default notice is not compliant with the regulations then this gives a further limb to attack on, it is not however in place of the s78 breach but in addition to it.

 

If they cannot prove service of the notice of assignment then they may still rely on equity as their aid so that would not defeat their claim either

[andy_l]

Hi Guys

I got a reply back from morgans (see attached file).

Along with these letters came to copies of agreements (basically one dated 01-09-2002 and the other dated 01-11-2009) both of which are titled Credit Agreements regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and contain my name and address at the top BUT do not contain my credit card account reference number, ie they are photocopies with my name and address at the the top as well as Citibank's.

The attached letter from Citi The Debtor's Credit Agreement Request is dated 8th April 2011, which means morgans obtaiuned a copy of the CCA's within weeks of asking, whereas, I the customer couldn't get one for love nor money since asking since Sept 2009, so I'm a bit miffed about that.

In morgan's letter, they state that they are under no obligation to provide a full history of the account, so how am I supposed to deduce how the final alleged debt was arrived at and whether it was correctly calculated.

Also the court stayed procedings until 11th may 2011, yet morgans are giving me another two weeks to respond to there letter which goes beyond the 11th May. Will I be getting a letter from the court soon ?

Any ideas where I should go from here ?

many thanks

andy_l

morgan reply 06052011.doc

[andy_l]

hello.....

[andy_l]

Hi Guys

It looks like my only form of defence is now to complain that I don't believe the claim against me has been made in an intimidating fashion and has not followed the correct protocol.

• Court case stayed until 11th May 2011.
  
• in Sept 2009 I applied to Citi for CCA etc under the 974 S78 act together with my £1, I received nothing.
  
• Default Notice served while Citi in default.
  
• Notice of Assignment to Cabot served while Citi in default, other than letter from Citi, no proof of assignment (deeds etc) supplied.
  
• SAR sent to Citi, full statement of account not supplied.
  
• 6th May, Morgans supplied copy of reconstituted CCA, stating they now have enough info to enforce claim, and they do not need to supply full statement of account to quantify debt.
  

Looks like I'm on a sticky wicket, any advice please ?

rgds

andy_l

[the_shadow]

I'm afraid none of the above seems to me to be a valid defence....Whilst in default of responding to a s78 request they may do everything bar gain judgment in court, this has been determined in court and backed up by the OFT, therefore all the actions you list are valid even whilst in default of responding.

 

I havent looked back but did Citi actually send you a default notice? it wasnt the norm for them to do this.

 

I would seriously think about the next step as it will cost you more in costs to actually proceed to court with this action if you could potentially negotiate with them prior.

 

S.

[andy_l]

thanks Shadow.

the Default Notice served under Section 87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 was dated 6th Jan 2010 and sent by Citi to me.

rgds

andy_l

[Tonster]

Am I missing something here? Your defence is that they haven't supplied a copy of the original agreement. I know creditors will argue Carey allows for a reconstitued agreement in response to the s.78 request but the original is required in court. No original should mean no judgement.

I guess it's whether you want to continue with this line, if I'm wrong I stand corrected.

[andy_l]

thanks Tonster

are we saying that if the original (copy) CCA with my signature is not supplied in court then the debt remains uneforcable.....is that cut and dried or would it be for the judge to decide ?

rgds

andy_l

[andy_l]

I have been supplied with a re-constituted CCA (photocopy single sided) with my name and address at the top, but it doesnt contain any signatures. basically its just the t & c's.

rgs

andy_l

[AndyOrch]

It must still contain the prescribed inclusions, reconstitute copies are for the supplying of information ie Sec 77/78 only

not enforcing in a court of law, but as you quite rightly state, right DJ, right day and mood and knowledge of the CCA is another force to consider

carefully before continuing.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[andy_l]

Oh !!!! why dopes everything have to be so grey instead of simply being black or white, no wonder solicitors make a lot of money....

[the_shadow]

Oh !!!! why dopes everything have to be so grey instead of simply being black or white, no wonder solicitors make a lot of money....

 

The problem is county court is governed by DJ's who deal in the law of probabilities not absolutes as in criminal law so its a case of the judge being convinced who has the best presentation/story/facts etc.

 

S.

[millymollymoo]

How did you get on ?

Edited December 19, 2011 by millymollymoo