ESA failed - please help

[Clacton]

ESA failed

Just got a phone call from ESA telling me that they had found me fit for work and that I have two options;

apply for JSA or appeal the decision and I should receive all the information by post in a few days.

 

I would say for the last 2 years I have been really struggling. I had counselling, and although I didn't think it helped I was willing to try anything. As time went by I progressively got worse until it got so bad I was signed of work in July with depression and acute axienty. In September I was sacked / had to leave as it was plain to see there was no way in the foreseeable future I would be able to return to work.

 

Originally I had my ESA medical booked for early December, with this date looming I really spiralled down. Without the support of my family there was no way I would have been able to attend. The day before I get a call from ATOS telling me that the Doctor didn't want to work tomorrow and can they reschedule - I was so stressed that I agreed and the appointment was set for the following week. When the day came for the reschedule medical I eventually made it to the medical centre but not before having to get of the train as I started to have a panic attack, there was no way I was getting back on the train so my support had to arrange a taxi to pick us up and take us the rest of the way. When we get there I was in a terrible state but knew I had to go through with it. I couldn't even speak to the receptionist and I dread to think what would have happened if my support hadn't been there with me. In the waiting room we could here the receptionist slagging off what I presume was one of the Doctors as she was refusing to work (she actually called her a bitch). The receptionist came into the waiting area and told everyone that the computers

were down and they only had one Doctor as the others had refused to do any medicals manually. This meant that there was likely to be 2 to 3 hour delay, which didn't include the time they shut for lunch at 12:00 to 13:15. This was just to much for me to cope with and I just had to get out of there. My support manged to find me wandering around outside and told me that the receptionist understood and would note that I attended but the medical couldn't be carried out & would rearrange it. This whole episode has really set me back, I'm again bursting into tears for no reason all the time, something that I had tried hard to beat

and was starting to have some success with. I'm on edge all the time, can't sleep or focus on anything, constant headaches, really dark moods which are scaring me.

 

Fast forward to my new appointment, this time it actually goes ahead. I'm asked a few questions on mental health, some of them I find difficult as I'm admitting things in front of a family member who went to support me which I've tried to keep to myself. They asked the horrible question (to me anyway) and that's it I breakdown and I'm in floods of tears again. I find it really hard to answer but somehow mange too - this is without the hardest thing I've ever had to do.

 

I know they have a job to do but I've worked all my life, If I wasn't ill I would still have been working as a successful accountant. What i find is a sick joke is I was earning twice the amount in a day that they are now giving us to survive on for a week. this really isn't a life choice I would choose if I had any other option.

 

My support was sure I would have scored enough points just by how I was in the medical, I was wasn't sure if I would but on reflection I did change my mind as there is no way I can return to work at the moment.

 

Post is deleivered this mornng, however I have to wait until my Mother turns up to open my post as it's just something I can't deal with (any post).

 

Once I've overcome another panic attack and being sick, I'm passed my mail to go through - now I know I've failed but I sat there staring the paperwork from ESA about my assessment - not a single point, 0 points. I can't beleive it! I'm so angry, feel sick (again) dizzy. it's all lies, for example It says I'm able to go out without to go to familar places without someones help - not true I told them unless I have someone to go with I wouldn't be able to go out. There's nothing in their about self harming the fact that I had my pets taken away as I couldn't look after them, how I need constant reminders to take my medication, and need other people to organise my appointments. I was asked about hobies, I told them that my support try to get me to go out or interact with them otherwise I would just sit for hours or stay in bed not doing

anything. I told them that I use to cycle before I got ill but had to give that up as I started to loose concentration and would either ride into someone or just cycle into traffic without looking.

SO I've just phoned ESA to tell them I want to appeal this decison & I want to make a complaint as the assessement report they have sent me is total lies and does not reflect the medical that I attended, they said I needed to fill out and send the GL240(I think) which came with the assessment back to them.

I tell them that I don't have this form. they inform me that sometimes it's forgotton to be included and will send me another one - well thanks

 

To be honest I'm at my wits end with all this and I really don't think I have the energy or will to fight this. I just don't know where to turn to. I don't think I can go to my Doctors for help as every time I go for more medication or sick notes I see a different Doctor, - I must have seen at least 8 different Doctors

in the last 6 months.

 

I'm so sorry or the rambling mess of a post

 

If anyone can help I really would be so grateful.

[honeybee13]

Hello there, welcome to the forum.

 

The first thing to say is that this is normal. I think the majority of people here score zero with Atos, going by what I've read.

 

You can do this - you need to appeal. You can also download the GL24 form online, if you have a printer. As Leemack said to someone on another thread today, you must appeal in writing and the GL24 is the best way to go, although you might want to email them before that, so they have something else in writing. Don't forget the time limit of a month.

 

Once you're in the appeal process, you will still be entitled ESA.

 

I have a 'sticky' on the forum, about appeals and tribunals and it might help you if you read the appeals part of it now. You will have months before your tribunal to think about the rest.

 

Send off your appeal and then come back to us and we'll suggest what to do next.

 

My best, HB

 

PS Stickies are on the title page of this forum, in the yellow part at the top.

Edited January 20, 2011 by honeybee13
PS.

[Clacton]

Hello there, welcome to the forum.

 

The first thing to say is that this is normal. I think the majority of people here score zero with Atos, going by what I've read.

 

You can do this - you need to appeal. You can also download the GL24 form online, if you have a printer. As Leemack said to someone on another thread today, you must appeal in writing and the GL24 is the best way to go, although you might want to email them before that, so they have something else in writing. Don't forget the time limit of a month.

 

Once you're in the appeal process, you will still be entitled ESA.

 

I have a 'sticky' on the forum, about appeals and tribunals and it might help you if you read the appeals part of it now. You will have months before your tribunal to think about the rest.

 

Send off your appeal and then come back to us and we'll suggest what to do next.

 

My best, HB

 

PS Stickies are on the title page of this forum, in the yellow part at the top.

 

Hi HB,

 

Thank you for taking the time to reply

 

I'll go and download the GL24 and try to get it sent of by tomorrow. such a shame that the advisor at ESA couldn't tell me about being able to download this form instead of waiting for the post.

 

Clacton

[honeybee13]

I hope you find the form online. I think there's a link in my sticky if you're having a problem.

 

My best, HB

[Clacton]

I now have the GL24 but I'm slightly confused as to how I should be completing it, Should I be giving verse & chapter of my illness and how it affects me or should I give them a brief outline - for example;

 

I'm appealing the decision reached following my medical dated xx.xx.xx I do not believe this assessment has truly reflected my actual medical in any way, it is also the belief of my support, whom without I would not have been able to travel or attend the medical that my responses have not been correctly taken into account.

 

Or something along these lines ? I'm also intending to make a complaint, should I do this under a separate letter or can I include this on the GL24 form? Is it even worth complaining or are they likely to make my life harder than it is? can I ask what medical qualification the person who took my medical had and can I request what they actual were typing about me.

 

thank you

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I'm not sure about the form tbh, you need someone like Leemack to turn up. I expect someone will be along soon with answers for you.

 

I'd be inclined to keep the complaint separate and to follow the procedure for Atos, if that's who you're complaining about. From memory, that's on their website or possibly in the paperwork you have.

 

I think they'll tell you what the qualifications are of the Health Care Professional [i think it is] who saw you. We know from posts on here that they don't have to have someone specialised in what you're suffering from, they just need to have done the Atos course.

 

The DWP will send you a copy of your computer assessment and you'll probably disagree with a lot of it. That's what you use if you have to take it to a tribunal, which is what I did.

 

My best, HB

Edited January 21, 2011 by honeybee13
Missing word.

[leemack]

Hi Clacton, On the gl24, you don't need to write much, basically that you disagree with the decision and that you should have been scored more than 15 points, you could also ask for all paperwork related to the assessment. You can then make your arguments with specifics once you get your paperwork through. Its best not to try and make any arguments at this point as to how you responses were taken into account - as once you have the paperwork you can argue specifics.

 

Regarding your complaint, you may want to wait until you get your paperwork through, as there may be things on there that you want to include.

[Clacton]

Thank you HB & Leemack - some sound advice.

 

I couldn't quite complete the GL24 yesteday but all done now, even got my father to drive me to the post box so I could post it myself - Just wish I could have hand delivered it (wishful thinking I know).

 

Clacton

[Charlie996]

Mate You are NOT alone !! I to am awaiting an ATOS decision and expect to be in allmost exactly the same position as You !! I know its hard and I wish I could take My Own advice. But stick with it and follow the Appeal through !!

It seems that unless a Person is absolutey not fit for any kind of work at all They will fail the medical !! How many can say truthfully that They cannot do any form of work ?? Not many I bet !!

Hope it works out for You !! Good luck.

Charlie....

[christospalmer]

Like yourself, I also suffer from depression and anxiety (plus other problems), but I was lucky, I scored the 15 points I needed, but some people just score 0, this might be because they filled in the forms themselves, never a good idea, an appeal will normally work, as the doctors are more sympathetic. Appeal against the decision.

[Clacton]

Just had my ESA reinstated at the assessment rate, so now I just have to wait for the paper work from my medical. Feeling slightly better now although I know still have a long hard fight.

[honeybee13]

That's good, Clacton, don't give up and ask for any help you need.

 

My best, HB

[Clacton]

Hi HB, thanks for your support!

 

Just had a phone call from one of the ESA decision makers at jobcentreplus. He explained that they would look at my case again, told me how the tribunal worked, did I still want to appeal. Said I could call back at anytime.

 

Clacton

[Clacton]

This morning is not a good

Just got my ESA medical paperwork through, I knew I hadn't scored any points - but I could tell from my mothers face, she didn't want me to read it.

 

It's just full of lies, I'm so angry, I feel emotionally drained & I'm just so fed up of crying all the time. I know I need to start writing up my appeal but I just can't face it at the moment, I just can't think & don't know where to start.

[leemack]

There's no hurry to writing a submission for the tribunal. Anything you write is 99% certain not to sway a DWP decision maker at this point, and the Tribunal won't be for many months. Can you find yourself a benefit adviser to help you - at a welfare rights agency or CAB possibly?

 

If not, I'd start simply by getting a highlighter and highlighting everything on the report that's wrong.

 

There are different types of things that can be wrong.

 

1) procedural - lies about the procedure of the assessment - so for instance the report might say the medical was 1 hour long when in fact it was 10 minutes, or the doc may say they examined you when they didn't.

 

2) factual - things are written on the the report that you didn't say, or things you said have been misrepresented or twisted, or incorrect assumptions were made from yes/no answers. For instance you may say you occasionally see a friend - and the report says you see friends every day.

 

3) interpretation - Each descriptor will use the 'factual statements' to justify their decision not to award you points. Often the justications are idiotic. Like saying that if a person can stand for 3 minutes - this means they can stand for 10 minutes.

 

List everything under these headings and it will give you a starting point. If you're not sure about something on the report, you can always come back to us and ask.

 

My other concern is you not being able to get medical evidence - that to me suggests that you're not getting much help from your doctors regarding your condition. Have you ever been referred to a psychiatrist for help - or asked for a referral. If you're struggling to cope with your condition, then you may need more specialist help than your doctor can give.

Edited January 27, 2011 by leemack

[prescriber]

Hello Clacton,

 

I decided to join CAG this morning after reading your comment. I fully understand how you're feeling right now because I've been in the same boat. Do NOT despair, all is not lost.

I had the pleasure of a 'medical assessment' with ATOS last February owing to suffering with depression brought on by a succession of traumatic events in my life. My partner accompanied me, and despite being an emotional wreck during the 'interview' I was scored zero points by a person who turned out to be a nurse and not a Doctor.

Obviously when I read through my medical report after immediately deciding to appeal I went through a whole range of emotions ranging from rage, despair, fear etc. My appeal was turned down (obviously) so I then opted for a tribunal which took place last November. The Doctor and Judge that I appeared before couldn't have been more sympathetic and awarded me 39 points, a VAST difference.

It's high time ATOS were shown up on TV, they are causing so many people unnecessary anxiety.

If I can be of any help to you please feel free to PM me and I will help you through this ghastly time.

[Guest jsa12]

forget about jsa and job centre plus,today i have attended my appointment with shaw trust amongst the job centre staff,the lady and i were seated and went to telephone an employer and handed her mobile to me at that point a job centre member of staff was bickering at the woman from the shaw trust asking why was i using the phone ,the whole posture look was intimidating and someone with anxiety problems would be obviously wondering whats happening all this while i was on the phone.this had totally nothing at all to do with this employee of job centre plus and was clearly trying to make it her business and cause people issues.

 

if you want mental health problems to deteriorate further then by all means attend there.

[Clacton]

Thank you everyone, it is so heart warming to find people willing to help (even if it did set me of again).

 

I'm not looking at the medical notes anymore today, there is so much wrong with it. The nurse couldn't even get how long I haven't worked for - acording to atos I haven't worked for two months, but I told them I was signed of work in July '10 they only noted one side effect I suffered from my medication when I have & told them about four others. There was no mention of suicidal thoughts or attempts. If they aren't lying they are manipulating my answers to suit themselves, for example they asked if I have and use a computer? I told them that I can use a computer, however I don't have one myself because when I was at my worse I destroyed it, burning it along with all my work suits, mobile phone I did this as I was scared of work finding me - I know this sounds crazy and I just don't know why I have this fear but even now I can't deal with having any contact with work - oh and did I mention I did this all in the middle of my kitchen - how I didn't burn my house down I'll never know. - they interpret my answer as - Can use a computer, does not have one.

 

Thanks again everyone - just going to try and clear my head and try get an early night - reality is I will spend all night up worrying

[doktorjohn]

My tip for anyone going to appeal at a tribunal is to give your GP a copy of the exact descriptors you are fighting for and why.

 

Your doctor then knows exactly what to write in support of you.

 

My GP said that I was the only one who had done this, and it was easier for her to write a letter for me.

 

I won my case a week before going to tribunal but it was for incapacity benefit which is not as harsh as ESA.

 

I still have the ESA battle ahead of me and I am dreading it but at least I know how to go about it and I have the support

 

of these brilliant and caring CAGgers.

 

- dj

[honeybee13]

And please have a read of my sticky when you feel up to it, or ask your Mum to. Lots of us have been through this and you could be a successful tribunal claimant too. My sticky has a template letter that you can adapt to suit your symptoms, and it has a link to the descriptors that the DWP use to allocate points, at least I think it does.

 

Take this a bit at a time and you'll get there. As Leemack says, any tribunal is months away. Stick with us, we'll talk you through it.

 

HB x

[leemack]

My tip for anyone going to appeal at a tribunal is to give your GP a copy of the exact descriptors you are fighting for and why.

 

Your doctor then knows exactly what to write in support of you.

 

My GP said that I was the only one who had done this, and it was easier for her to write a letter for me.

 

I won my case a week before going to tribunal but it was for incapacity benefit which is not as harsh as ESA.

 

I still have the ESA battle ahead of me and I am dreading it but at least I know how to go about it and I have the support

 

of these brilliant and caring CAGgers.

 

- dj

 

Excellent point, the doctor knowing the relevant descriptors is very important. We used to use a short questionnaire, based around the descriptors relevant for the client for the GP or health professional to complete. If I can find an example on one of my old USB drives, I'll post it, just in case anyone would find it useful.

[Clacton]

Hello,

 

Sorry I haven't been around, at first I was so angry I thought it would carry be through and give me the will to complete my appeal straight away, how very wrong was I. The last week has been very difficult not even being able to get out of bed - however I'm still fighting my way through - I will not give up!

 

I rerceived a letter from DWP yesterday which I've only just looked at, it's headed Deductions from ESA. Now I was expecting this as I had to get a crisis loan when they initially stopped my ESA payment. although with help from here I managed to egt them to reinstate it straight away as I told them I was going to appeal. In the same letter it also states "We have looked again as the facts and evidence we used to make our decision. As a result we have changed the decision". It then goes on to say |Your appeal will not be sent to The Appeals Service as the decision has been changed in your favour".

 

Does this mean I no longer have to work through my ATOS medical assement? to highlight why I'm appealing.

 

I tried calling DWP but they were no help at all. I told they couldn't see anything but if the letter said they had found in my favour I didn't have to worry.

 

As much I as would love to think that's it, I just can't as the ATOS assement was so full of lies and the nurse had manipulated what I had actually said so badly I can't beleive they would go in my favour just using my medical assesment. I did speak wth a decision maker over the phone and had told him everything that had happend and that I was going to appeal and I was also going to complain about ATOS

[doktorjohn]

You have won your case.

 

Congratulations.

[Clacton]

Thanks DoktorJohn

 

I did think that, but find it amazing that they can come to a totaly different decision without me submiting anything. I guess it shows what a shambles ATOS are.

[ErikaPNP]

It will be because of the volume of uneccessery appeals. As a result of this, DWP have set up new review teams for reconsiderations, who have been trained to critically evaluate former sucessful cases where tribunals have found in favour of the appellant with ease. It's part of an initiative to drive down the amount of appeals which are being presented unessecerily. I've seen quite a few positve outcomes since this commenced. Let's hope it lasts, as the system cannot continue as it has been, denying genuine people the benefits they are entitled to.

 

Congratulations - all you need now is to find out whether you are in the WRAG or the support group!