What exactly is stopping on a zigzag?

[Michael Browne]

However, if those speeding tickets or parking tickets are wrongly issued, then I will offer my guidance. .

I've just read this entire thread and I'm at a loss as to exactly what guidance you are offering the OP, other than suggesting, that contra to his admission in post #1 that he stopped albeit for 5 seconds, that the OP lies in any appeal.

 

Obviously I must have missed something.

[aj84]

Wow - I am shocked at the response

I'll try and reply back to everyone unless it's a repeat so here it goes:

 

 

Dragons Dennis:

Ealing Council has issued this. It is a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)

 

 

green_and_mean:

This is my issue - as far as the picture shows, I did not stop within the zig zags. I was on the main road rather than on the zig zag or mounted on the footpath for instance.

My understanding is the zigzag is what is behind it such as the footpath or because it was blocking an entrance.

 

 

 

esmerobbo

Thanks, this is all I really wanted to know providing where I WAS is in the boundaries of a zigzag.

Goes back to my above point...am I stopped on a zigzag?

It's almost like a double yellow line...do I have to be stopped ON the line to get a ticket/clamp or could I be away from it and still get stopped such as the middle of the road.

 

 

 

sailor sam:

Agreed. It really does annoy me when people stop in the middle however, I don't see it an issue when it is blocking no one at all, there is no traffic front or back and there are no exits being blocked.

 

 

 

Dragons Dennis:

This is a good point, its an auto so there is very slight creep unless the brakes are firmly applied or there e-brake is on.

 

 

 

Raykay

I am with DD here... Although I did say that in the post, I couldn't firmly say I was stationary...stopping for me can be slowed to a creep as well because of the automatic gearbox creep you get.

For instance, I could get out of the car with it in drive as I approach my work carpark barrier, swipe in, and get back in with the car only moving a few cm up a slight incline.

 

 

sailor sam#21: But I was not blocking any pedestrians nor exits.

Fully understand the point about police though if there is an offence in this case.

 

 

 

esmerobbo#25:

Second image only showed the numberplate and that was it

What I will do however is check the time stamp differences. I guess if they got my picture many seconds apart then hands up to the offence as I was stationary assuming the cctv camera was stationary.

 

 

Michael Browne:

DD has had valid points here (as has SS). I posted my initial thread with a fair bit of anger at both the council but myself too if I had indeed carried out the offence.

As a result I have said things quickly and I think DD has clearly defined what I may have meant as well (such as stating I stopped but not stopped stationary).

 

 

 

I appreciate all the points made here and I think I will raise a request for information on whether I was indeed stopped providing the two images (the attached + the numberplate closeup) timestamp differ.

 

I am happy to pay if I have carried out the offence but not happy if I have not - The issue is it happened some time ago and while I remember the meal, I don't remember my drive there and back much as it is almost the same drive I do daily so it all feels/sounds the same to me!

 

 

Thanks again

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

aj84,

 

To answer your fundamental question please refer to The Zebra, Pelican and Puffin Pedestrian Crossings Regulations and General Directions 1997 which you can find here: http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=S.I.+(All+UK)&PageNumber=1&BrowseLetter=Z&NavFrom=1&parentActiveTextDocId=2941403&ActiveTextDocId=2941406&filesize=58999

 

Look in particular at reg 20 which says:

 

Prohibition against the stopping of vehicles in controlled areas

20. — (1) For the purposes of this regulation and regulations 21 and 22 the word “vehicle" shall not include a pedal bicycle not having a sidecar attached to it, whether or not additional means of propulsion by mechanical power are attached to the bicycle.

(2) Except as provided in regulations 21 and 22 the driver of a vehicle shall not cause it or any part of it to stop in a controlled area.

 

I think you will find that you were within the "controlled area" and thus should not have stopped unless for an exempted reason.

 

Good luck to you if you wish to argue either or both that you were not stopped or that an exemption applies.

[sailor sam]

Wow - I am shocked at the response

I'll try and reply back to everyone unless it's a repeat so here it goes:

 

 

 

green_and_mean:

This is my issue - as far as the picture shows, I did not stop within the zig zags. I was on the main road rather than on the zig zag or mounted on the footpath for instance.

My understanding is the zigzag is what is behind it such as the footpath or because it was blocking an entrance.

 

 

 

esmerobbo

Thanks, this is all I really wanted to know providing where I WAS is in the boundaries of a zigzag.

Goes back to my above point...am I stopped on a zigzag?

It's almost like a double yellow line...do I have to be stopped ON the line to get a ticket/clamp or could I be away from it and still get stopped such as the middle of the road.

 

 

 

sailor sam:

Agreed. It really does annoy me when people stop in the middle however, I don't see it an issue when it is blocking no one at all, there is no traffic front or back and there are no exits being blocked.

 

 

sailor sam#21: But I was not blocking any pedestrians nor exits.

Fully understand the point about police though if there is an offence in this case.

 

 

I appreciate all the points made here and I think I will raise a request for information on whether I was indeed stopped providing the two images (the attached + the numberplate closeup) timestamp differ.

 

I am happy to pay if I have carried out the offence but not happy if I have not - The issue is it happened some time ago and while I remember the meal, I don't remember my drive there and back much as it is almost the same drive I do daily so it all feels/sounds the same to me!

 

 

Thanks again

 

If you really believe that, then I suggest that you go out and buy a copy of the highway code because you obviously havn't got a clue about the rules relating to pedestrian crossing markings. As Bernie the Bolt points out, the zig zags mark the road area to which the restrictions apply so it matters not that you are not actually positioned on the zig zags themselves... the offence is that you have stopped within the controlled area for reasons other than those which are acceptable (which were listed by G & M). By picking up a passenger within the zig zag area (stationary or not) means you have stopped. If you had been seen by a police officer, you would have received a FPN which is £60 + 3 points on your licence so I would consider yourself lucky.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[esmerobbo]

Wow - I am shocked at the response

I'll try and reply back to everyone unless it's a repeat so here it goes:

 

 

Dragons Dennis:

Ealing Council has issued this. It is a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN)

 

 

green_and_mean:

This is my issue - as far as the picture shows, I did not stop within the zig zags. I was on the main road rather than on the zig zag or mounted on the footpath for instance.

My understanding is the zigzag is what is behind it such as the footpath or because it was blocking an entrance.

 

 

 

esmerobbo

Thanks, this is all I really wanted to know providing where I WAS is in the boundaries of a zigzag.

Goes back to my above point...am I stopped on a zigzag?

It's almost like a double yellow line...do I have to be stopped ON the line to get a ticket/clamp or could I be away from it and still get stopped such as the middle of the road.

 

 

 

sailor sam:

Agreed. It really does annoy me when people stop in the middle however, I don't see it an issue when it is blocking no one at all, there is no traffic front or back and there are no exits being blocked.

 

 

 

Dragons Dennis:

This is a good point, its an auto so there is very slight creep unless the brakes are firmly applied or there e-brake is on.

 

 

 

Raykay

I am with DD here... Although I did say that in the post, I couldn't firmly say I was stationary...stopping for me can be slowed to a creep as well because of the automatic gearbox creep you get.

For instance, I could get out of the car with it in drive as I approach my work carpark barrier, swipe in, and get back in with the car only moving a few cm up a slight incline.

 

 

sailor sam#21: But I was not blocking any pedestrians nor exits.

Fully understand the point about police though if there is an offence in this case.

 

 

 

esmerobbo#25:

Second image only showed the numberplate and that was it

What I will do however is check the time stamp differences. I guess if they got my picture many seconds apart then hands up to the offence as I was stationary assuming the cctv camera was stationary.

 

 

Michael Browne:

DD has had valid points here (as has SS). I posted my initial thread with a fair bit of anger at both the council but myself too if I had indeed carried out the offence.

As a result I have said things quickly and I think DD has clearly defined what I may have meant as well (such as stating I stopped but not stopped stationary).

 

 

 

I appreciate all the points made here and I think I will raise a request for information on whether I was indeed stopped providing the two images (the attached + the numberplate closeup) timestamp differ.

 

I am happy to pay if I have carried out the offence but not happy if I have not - The issue is it happened some time ago and while I remember the meal, I don't remember my drive there and back much as it is almost the same drive I do daily so it all feels/sounds the same to me!

 

 

Thanks again

 

 

[aj84]

Thanks Bernie for that

 

 

 

Having looked at the two images, they are 5 seconds apart and show the car has moved a few feet in that time so it does look like I was NOT stationary

[sailor sam]

Thanks Bernie for that

 

 

 

Having looked at the two images, they are 5 seconds apart and show the car has moved a few feet in that time so it does look like I was NOT stationary

 

Again, the fact that you picked someone up within the controlled area means that it is irrelevant that you were not stationary.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[diskmandave]

The OP can ask the Council to view their actual footage.

That should clear the "not/stopped" debate once and for all.

 

But again, to quote the OP in Posts #1 & 2...

so I stopped where she was and 5 seconds later, was off.

 

99J Stopped on a pedestrian crossing and/or crossing area marked by zig-zag

 

Appreciate that you're angry with yourself, but there's no getting away from the

fact, that by your own words, you stopped for 5 seconds in a crossing area clearly

marked with Zig Zag lines and the Council filmed you doing it and have quite rightly

issued a PCN, and as previously stated, if seen by Police would have been 3 points

too.

 

Is there a reduced payment time scale to be considered here??

Edited December 11, 2010 by diskmandave