What exactly is stopping on a zigzag?

[aj84]

Hi all,

 

Got a PCN yesterday about a night I clearly remember but I can't make sense of the PCN.

 

Went to Nando's to pick up a takeaway...a friend who was with me said she would pick it up as there was no parking. I dropped her off at the train station car park which was empty- saw signs that there was no stopping in the bays and so I left the car park to do a round.

 

On completing of the round, I noticed my friend waiting a few steps from the corner of the entrance to the station car park.

Looked in the mirror, no one behind me (was quite late), no one in front of me, no one next to me etc etc and so I stopped where she was and 5 seconds later, was off.

 

I at no point settled ON the zigzags and there was no ped crossing either.I was simply in the middle of road as one is when driving.

 

I've attached what they caught - Does this constitute as a stopping on a zigzag or should I appeal?

I'm more than happy to pay it off right now if I am indeed in the wrong but just need some clarification first

[aj84]

I should note that the contravention is:

99J Stopped on a pedestrian crossing and/or crossing area marked by zig-zag

[Dragons Dennis]

I note is says 'penalty charge' which suggests NOT a PPC.

 

Who, EXACTLY has issued this?

Edited December 4, 2010 by Dragons Dennis

[green_and_mean]

You can only stop within the zig zag area for the following reasons:

Stopped by a traffic light

Stopped to allow a pedestrian to cross

Stopped for reasons beyond your control ie. traffic queue

Stopped by a Police officer

Stopped to avoid an accident

 

Anything else is an offence and liable to a fine and 3 points if stopped by the police or liable to a penalty charge from the Council.

If someone boards or alights your vehicle you must have been stopped which sounds like the case.

[Dragons Dennis]

Not if it is on private property, like a car park.

[esmerobbo]

Not if it is on private property, like a car park.

 

Would a PPC call it a Penalty charge? I know they like to call them PCN but the P normally means "Parking" in their PCN's

[Dragons Dennis]

Which is exactly why I asked in my first response. We'll never know unless the OP answers. Yes, just realised I left out the word NOT. edited.

[esmerobbo]

Which is exactly why I asked in my first response. We'll never know unless the OP answers. Yes, just realised I left out the word NOT. edited.

 

Now I understand.

[green_and_mean]

Not if it is on private property, like a car park.

 

Obviously not but how many pedestrian crossings in car parks have zig zags?

[Dragons Dennis]

Not many, but every little helps.

[diskmandave]

so I stopped where she was and 5 seconds later, was off

 

You can see the woman getting in the car in the (albeit small) photograph!

[esmerobbo]

As I see it the picture confirms the offence occurred. The reason the OP stopped was outside any accepted reason for stopping on a Zig Zag.

[sailor sam]

As I see it the picture confirms the offence occurred. The reason the OP stopped was outside any accepted reason for stopping on a Zig Zag.

 

Agreed. Some people seem to think that stopping 'just for couple of seconds' is acceptable. Its good to know that they are being educated accordingly.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Dragons Dennis]

The single photograph does not show the car stopped at all. It just shows the car. It could be still moving in which case no offence occured. Needs more pics or CCTV. If the OP knowes they did stop and it ws inded a public road then there is no defence.

[sailor sam]

The single photograph does not show the car stopped at all. It just shows the car. It could be still moving in which case no offence occured. Needs more pics or CCTV. If the OP knowes they did stop and it ws inded a public road then there is no defence.

 

Then the person getting in the passenger side must be a stunt man/woman if the car was still moving!

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Dragons Dennis]

In law 'stopped' means completely stationary. If the car is rolling forwards, even very slowly then it hasn't stopped. It is a valid point in law and thus should be confirmed.

[sailor sam]

In law 'stopped' means completely stationary. If the car is rolling forwards, even very slowly then it hasn't stopped. It is a valid point in law and thus should be confirmed.

 

If you are dropping/picking up a passenger, then by definition surely you are regarded as being stopped or parked. Otherwise you would be committing other offences. I would suggest that the OP would likely find that using your argument would be expensive in any appeal.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Dragons Dennis]

I know what you are saying SS. I agree with the sentiment entirely and as an ADI I would never encourage anyone to do what the OP has done. But from an advisory position within the forum I am looking for any errors in the 'charge' and if the charge is 'stopped' but IF the OP went very, very slowly by definition they didn't stop and thus the offence did not occur.

 

Whilst I completely agree that picking up someone like this is not good, there is no offence of 'picking someone up within the zig zags' only 'stopping' or of course waiting, parking etc.

 

I am sure you get my angle. Every chance the OP did indeed stop, but the single photo does not show that in if the OP denies the offence then the onus is on the issuing authority to prove they did indeed stop, either by a sucession of still photos showing the Op clearly stationary, or better still by CCTV footage.

 

If the Op is sure they kept moving then the offence did not occur. If however they know (as I suspect we all do) that they did stop, then the charge is correct.

[Raykay]

In the first post, the OP said 'I stopped where she was and 5 seconds later, was off'.

[Dragons Dennis]

Yes he does indeed. I am only trying to help the OP. If it turns out that he didn't actuall;y stop, then no offence occured. I am purely looking from a 'get out clause' angle. Many of us have at some time ALMOST completely stopped whilst a friend gets in or out. If this is one of those occasions, then he may have a sucessful outcome.

[sailor sam]

Yes he does indeed. I am only trying to help the OP. If it turns out that he didn't actuall;y stop, then no offence occured. I am purely looking from a 'get out clause' angle. Many of us have at some time ALMOST completely stopped whilst a friend gets in or out. If this is one of those occasions, then he may have a sucessful outcome.

 

In your earlier post #18, you state that as an ADI you would 'never encourage anyone to do what the OP has done' so as an ADI, do you consider the OP warrants a 'get out clause'? Zig-zags are there for reasons of saftey to pedestrians so perhaps a PCN is a good way of helping the OP understand their purpose. It could of been worse for the OP for had it been the police who issued the ticket, it would of been a FPN which would of involved points on his/her licence.

 

And no. I for one have never 'at some time ALMOST completely stopped while a friend gets in or out' on zig zags.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[Dragons Dennis]

We are going to fall out soon SS. I thought the purpose of this forum was to assist people in finding a solution to an allegation etc. It doesn't matter whether I would stop on a zig zag or not. What matters is establishing the fact and then suggesting a defence. I also have never let anyone in or out on zig zags, but I didn't suggest that. If you really want to pick at my post then get the facts straight. I said, as you have indeed quoted 'of us have at some time ALMOST completely stopped whilst a friend gets in or out'. I never suggested this was on zig zags. Nor did I suggest motorways, in the middle of a lake, half way up Table mountain or anywhere in particluar.

 

As an ADI I do not condone very much of the driving on this forum. But that is not why I am here. I have no sympathy with anyone who gets caught speeding ever nor do I have any sympathy with anyone getting any parking tickets. However, if those speeding tickets or parking tickets are wrongly issued, then I will offer my guidance. I am not here to judge other members. I am simply offering my advise and if that is to be interpretted as my official endorsement of law breaking then I shall not bother anymore, because that is not why I joined.

[sailor sam]

We are going to fall out soon SS. I thought the purpose of this forum was to assist people in finding a solution to an allegation etc. It doesn't matter whether I would stop on a zig zag or not. What matters is establishing the fact and then suggesting a defence. I also have never let anyone in or out on zig zags, but I didn't suggest that. If you really want to pick at my post then get the facts straight. I said, as you have indeed quoted 'of us have at some time ALMOST completely stopped whilst a friend gets in or out'. I never suggested this was on zig zags. Nor did I suggest motorways, in the middle of a lake, half way up Table mountain or anywhere in particluar.

 

As an ADI I do not condone very much of the driving on this forum. But that is not why I am here. I have no sympathy with anyone who gets caught speeding ever nor do I have any sympathy with anyone getting any parking tickets. However, if those speeding tickets or parking tickets are wrongly issued, then I will offer my guidance. I am not here to judge other members. I am simply offering my advise and if that is to be interpretted as my official endorsement of law breaking then I shall not bother anymore, because that is not why I joined.

 

WOW! Take a chill pill DD!

 

I too will offer guidance to those who have had tickets 'wrongly issued', but on this occasion, it appears that it was issued correctly. Therefore the OP has been 'educated' and has had the answer to his question; "What exactly is stopping on a zig zag". So here endeth the lesson!

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[green_and_mean]

If someone can get in a moving car whilst carrying a take away they don't deserve a PCN they should be in the Circus!

[esmerobbo]

Would it not be a two picture PCN? It certainly looks like part of another frame on the OPs link.