what I need to do before I start an ET with my employer.

[cfs_too]

Hi All,

 

I hope there are some employment law experts out there today??

 

Am I entitled to get a copy of all policies which form part of my contract of employment to be posted to me at my home address?

 

 

I have a few problems with my employer , in reference to an insurance policy and my terms of employment as I'm off sick and not in the office.

 

I have been off sick for several years, whilst an appeal has been ongoing with an insurance claim (incorrectly denied). The appeal decision has now been made and I am about to have my contract terminated.

 

I am just trying to know my entitlements before I have my termination meeting and I do not have a copy of a staff handbook or similar.

 

The companies policies and procedures (i.e. expenses policies etc) are stored on a network to which I do not have access.

 

I have asked for a copy of all policies which relate to my contract of employment and the employer is refusing to provide a copy.

 

Should they provide me with a copy under employment law?

 

any advise will be greatly appreciated.

 

thanks

Me_too

[cardiffboy500]

Hi Me_too

 

Has the employer stated why they are refusing this request?

 

CB500

[cfs_too]

Hi Me_too

 

Has the employer stated why they are refusing this request?

 

CB500

 

Hi CB500,

 

Thanks for your response, I believe the reason is because they want too!!! The HR manager is most awkward.

* REMOVED *

 

thanks

Me_too

Edited June 9, 2010 by cfs_too
Negotiating a Compromise Agreement

[honeybee13]

Hi there. I will defer to any of our gurus who turn up, but I would have thought you are entitled to a copy of the staff handbook. Even it you'd had one in the first place, it could be out of date, couldn't it?

 

Or maybe they could give you access to the internal intranet from home?

 

What exactly are you trying to claim expenses for? I'm slightly confused, but are these expenses incurred in the course of doing your job please?

 

I'm interested in the insurance claim that has been turned down. Without telling us anything confidential, what type of policy is it? Is it connected with being unable to work through illness, for example or for something else?

 

My best, HB

[cfs_too]

Hi honeybee,

 

A few comments below.....

 

Hi there. I will defer to any of our gurus who turn up, but I would have thought you are entitled to a copy of the staff handbook. Even it you'd had one in the first place, it could be out of date, couldn't it?

 

Or maybe they could give you access to the internal intranet from home?

 

What exactly are you trying to claim expenses for? I'm slightly confused, but are these expenses incurred in the course of doing your job please?

**REMOVED**

 

I'm interested in the insurance claim that has been turned down. Without telling us anything confidential, what type of policy is it? Is it connected with being unable to work through illness, for example or for something else? It's a PHI (Private Health Insurance) Group Policy.

The employer purchases the policy to cover the employee whilst on long term sick leave, for a set period of time.

 

My best, HB

Edited June 9, 2010 by cfs_too
Negotiating a Compromise Agreement

[honeybee13]

Hi there Me Too. I could be wrong, but these aren't really strictly expenses incurred in the course of your employment are they?

 

I can see you think you shouldn't have needed to spend the money, and I agree.

 

Maybe someone could comment on whether this would come under expenses or something to add to a later ET claim or similar please?

 

As to the PHI policy, your employer should be dealing with this properly. If not, you could write to the insurer either via work or directly to ask for further details if you don't have them. They probably won't reply to you because the policy doesn't 'belong' to you, but should send it to your employer to forward to you. I don't know if you've done this already.

 

Your ultimate sanction would be the Financial Services Ombudsman, having gone through the insurer's complaints procedure.

 

HB x

[cfs_too]

Hi and thanks for your response, I think my PM has overlapped with this response, but I will explain here also.....

 

Hi there Me Too. I could be wrong, but these aren't really strictly expenses incurred in the course of your employment are they? **removed**

 

I can see you think you shouldn't have needed to spend the money, and I agree.

 

Maybe someone could comment on whether this would come under expenses or something to add to a later ET claim or similar please?

Yes I too agree it may be a later claim, but I am trying to get this sorted as much as I can before termination. **removed**

 

As to the PHI policy, your employer should be dealing with this properly.

They haven't! If not, you could write to the insurer either via work or directly to ask for further details if you don't have them. Insurance company points me to the employer They probably won't reply to you because the policy doesn't 'belong' to you, but should send it to your employer to forward to you. I don't know if you've done this already.

 

Your ultimate sanction would be the Financial Services Ombudsman, having gone through the insurer's complaints procedure. **removed**

 

HB x

Edited June 9, 2010 by cfs_too
Negotiating a Compromise Agreement

[honeybee13]

Hello again. Yes, our PMs did cross, I just thought I'd post some extra bits in case they help someone else.

 

I see where they're both coming from in a perverse way, but I thought I read something not that long ago that you could go personally to the FOS, but please don't ask me where .

 

I'm surprised the FOS are saying that you can't complain, unless I've misunderstood something. Can your solicitor oblige the company to do this? I guess you've asked? Have you tried the Financial Services helpline to see if you get a different answer?

 

I'll leave the employment law stuff to the others.

 

HB x

[honeybee13]

Hi there Me Too. I just found this on the FSA/FOS ombudsman website and thought of you. It's dated 2003, I think, but that doesn't mean it's out of date. Worth a try.

 

'group policies

 

We see plenty of cases relating to group Permanent Health Insurance (PHI) and similar policies, where the employer has taken out the policy for the benefit of its employees and one of those employees refers a complaint to us. Some insurance firms have tried to argue that we cannot investigate cases that involve group policies (even where the policy was taken out for the benefit of an employee) if the policyholder is a large company with an annual turnover of £1million or more.

 

Under our rules (DISP 2.4), an eligible complainant (someone who is able to bring their complaint to the ombudsman service) includes ‘a person for whose benefit a contract of insurance was taken out or was intended to be taken out’.

To decide whether a case is one we can look into, we need to assess whether the policy was taken out for the benefit of the individual who has complained to us. We do this by looking at the policy wording and the employment contract. If it is clear that any payments made by the insurer go directly to the employee, then we will probably conclude that the complaint is within our jurisdiction'

 

 

HB x

[cfs_too]

Hi Hb,

 

Just signed back on.....thank you for finding this for me, the issue is the payment is made from the insurance company to the employer, and not to me - which means the point in italics in your quote below is the bit which fails me.

 

Although it is a policy to protect the employee, the payment is for the employers benefit, and therefore the only party able to complain to the FOS.

 

I have called the FOS several times, but my employer is refusing to believe that the employer is responsible, or to make a complaint. In reality, this poor effort on their behalf just adds to the ever growing list of failings by them and the broker throughout this claim and appeal.

 

Thanks

Me_too

 

Hi there Me Too. I just found this on the FSA/FOS ombudsman website and thought of you. It's dated 2003, I think, but that doesn't mean it's out of date. Worth a try.

 

'group policies

 

We see plenty of cases relating to group Permanent Health Insurance (PHI) and similar policies, where the employer has taken out the policy for the benefit of its employees and one of those employees refers a complaint to us. Some insurance firms have tried to argue that we cannot investigate cases that involve group policies (even where the policy was taken out for the benefit of an employee) if the policyholder is a large company with an annual turnover of £1million or more.

 

Under our rules (DISP 2.4), an eligible complainant (someone who is able to bring their complaint to the ombudsman service) includes ‘a person for whose benefit a contract of insurance was taken out or was intended to be taken out’.

To decide whether a case is one we can look into, we need to assess whether the policy was taken out for the benefit of the individual who has complained to us. We do this by looking at the policy wording and the employment contract. If it is clear that any payments made by the insurer go directly to the employee, then we will probably conclude that the complaint is within our jurisdiction'

 

 

HB x

[honeybee13]

Interesting, I suppose it depends how you read it.

 

By definition though, a group policy is designed to be paid through salary, that's how they work. I have a vague recollection that if all parties agree [tough in your case, but just thinking aloud], payments could possibly be made direct.

 

So there's a broker? Have you spoken to them at all? They would seem to be the intermediary here. Is it a national firm? Don't tell us who for now.

 

I have to say the people you're up against seem to be hiding against rules that suit them.

 

HB x

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

you should write a letter/e-mail to the HR director/manager and request a hard copy of that staff handbook as you have no access to the company's intranet site. Failing to do so, you will bring a claim before a Tribunal...

[cfs_too]

Good morning,

 

I had to laugh this morning, ah the broker!!!!

See comments ...

 

Interesting, I suppose it depends how you read it.

 

By definition though, a group policy is designed to be paid through salary, that's how they work. I have a vague recollection that if all parties agree [tough in your case, but just thinking aloud], payments could possibly be made direct. **removed**

 

So there's a broker? Have you spoken to them at all? They would seem to be the intermediary here. Is it a national firm? Don't tell us who for now.

**removed**

 

 

I have to say the people you're up against seem to be hiding against rules that suit them. Y**removed**

 

**removed**

 

 

HB x

Edited June 9, 2010 by cfs_too
Negotiating a Compromise Agreement

[cfs_too]

Hi,

 

I'm having a few issues with my employer in regards to a group PHI claim, which has now been settled.

 

It has taken over 2 years for the employer to appeal for me, and my question for this thread relates to the Disability Discriminations Act.

 

When the Insurance company declined the claim, they based this decision on a medical report which wrongly stated I was fit to return to work.

 

When the decision (not to pay) came through, my employer sent me to their own occupational health specialists who confirmed I was unfit to return to work. I had been disabled for 2 years prior to this, and was getting worse not better.

 

Now here is the bit I need help with, the employer chose to ignore my statements when explaining exactly how disabled I was (and still am) as well as ignoring their own appointed Dr's independent report.

 

Instead they decided I was fit to return to work, choosing to believe the duff report from the insurance company. At the time I explained the report was in error, and was a set up - but they did not believe me!

 

It's taken two long years and a struggle to get them to appeal, but my question is:

 

Is this disability discrimination if they did not believe I was disabled?

 

Instead they tried to get me to attend a RTW interview when clearly their own dr stated I was unfit to RTW, thus causing more stress and further decline in my health!

 

thanks

Me_Too

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

 

I'm having a few issues with my employer in regards to a group PHI claim, which has now been settled.

 

It has taken over 2 years for the employer to appeal for me, and my question for this thread relates to the Disability Discriminations Act.

 

When the Insurance company declined the claim, they based this decision on a medical report which wrongly stated I was fit to return to work.

 

When the decision (not to pay) came through, my employer sent me to their own occupational health specialists who confirmed I was unfit to return to work. I had been disabled for 2 years prior to this, and was getting worse not better.

 

Now here is the bit I need help with, the employer chose to ignore my statements when explaining exactly how disabled I was (and still am) as well as ignoring their own appointed Dr's independent report.

 

Instead they decided I was fit to return to work, choosing to believe the duff report from the insurance company. At the time I explained the report was in error, and was a set up - but they did not believe me!

 

It's taken two long years and a struggle to get them to appeal, but my question is:

 

Is this disability discrimination if they did not believe I was disabled?

 

Instead they tried to get me to attend a RTW interview when clearly their own dr stated I was unfit to RTW, thus causing more stress and further decline in my health!

 

thanks

Me_Too

 

 

Hi,

 

As worded above, one would argue that your employer did not query your disability, but if you were fit or not to return to work...

[cfs_too]

Hi bigredbus,

 

Thanks for your posting, I can see what you mean.

 

Now I am confused. :?

 

There seems to be lot more behind it than just believing I was 'fit to RTW', though the employer actually quoted (from the dodgy report) that it is 'something non-illness related' which is preventing me from RTW and not any ill health/disability.

 

This to me implies they do not believe my illness exists and therefore I am not disabled as a result of this illness (which is covered under the DDA).

 

When asking their own occ health Dr to meet with me, in the letter of request the employer referred to 'something non-illness related' which was preventing me from returning to work. The Dr replied that I was unfit to RTW, no adjustments could be made to allow me to rtw and that my illness was covered under the DDA and that my daily living was seriously curtailed.

 

The employer then asked another 'medical expert' of theirs to explain (the contents of the dodgy medical report) to the companies occ health person.

 

To me this implies that the dodgy report which states my 'ill health is not preventing me from working and it is other issues which are preventing me from working/and that I wasn't disabled' is believed above another which clearly states my illness seriously curtails my daily living.

 

 

My thoughts are - if the employer does not believe I am ill at all, (as opposed to just the RTW as you clearly pointed out), to me this means they are assuming that I am not disabled, which is a resultant issue of being ill.

 

I'm not sure if I am making any sense? I hope I am. I'm just rather confused about he whole issue.

 

Me_too

The text in italics is as I am unable to list the details on here as anyone working on the case will know who Iam.

[Bigredbus]

Thanks for the clarification...

 

(a) the DDA does not detail medical conditions to be identified as disability, instead (as you probably already know) it defines disability in broad terms... [a] person has a disability for the purposes of this Act (DDA 1995) if he has a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

 

(b) if your medical condition is capable of being met by the provision of the Act, then you would be, and are, protected under the Act.

 

© I understand that you do not want to disclose your condition as to protect your anonymity... but you could check with a specialist/consultant/expert and have your condition 'formally' asserted.

 

(d) if your employer is quering your medical condition, and that condition has been formally asserted by a field expert, then your employer could find himself in trouble and actually discriminating against you.

 

(e) you should (1) request that you be sent to a OH again, (2) see if you can, of your own will, get a medical report from a field expert...

[cfs_too]

Thanks for the prompt response.....

 

Thanks for the clarification...

 

(a) the DDA does not detail medical conditions to be identified as disability, instead (as you probably already know) it defines disability in broad terms... [a] person has a disability for the purposes of this Act (DDA 1995) if he has a physical or mental impairment which has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on his ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

 

(b) if your medical condition is capable of being met by the provision of the Act, then you would be, and are, protected under the Act.

thanks, and yes my illness is covered in regards to the above. This has been confirmed by several medical specialists reports (which the employer had access to at the time this started)!

 

© I understand that you do not want to disclose your condition as to protect your anonymity... but you could check with a specialist/consultant/expert and have your condition 'formally' asserted.

I have seen a specialist - the leading expert in the UK back in late 09, which is when the employer 'accepted' I was ill, 18 months after the appeal issues started.

 

(d) if your employer is quering your medical condition, and that condition has been formally asserted by a field expert, then your employer could find himself in trouble and actually discriminating against you. This is where my question stems from, I was diagnosed by a specialist in 2005, and after the dodgy report - between early 2008 to late 2009, the employer did not believe I was ill (I believe in any capacity). My specialists stated I was ill and the employer chose to believe the 'alternative' report which stated I wasn't ill.

 

Their behaviour towards me was detrimental to my health, in their actions and expectations of me. They refused to access my GP historic notes which would prove more recent 'proof' of disability. This lead to their delay of a year before they contacted an independent specialist for a new report.

 

(e) you should (1) request that you be sent to a OH again, (2) see if you can, of your own will, get a medical report from a field expert..the most recent one in late 09 states my true disabilities and state of health .

[Bigredbus]

Sorry to ask so many questions...

 

Was the Occupational Health Officer an expert in that field? (that is if the controversial report was written by that OH)?

[scousegeezer]

Me Too/ BRB,

Just a couple of questions which I feel are pertinent. I understand from previous text that the employer initially refused to accept that Me Too was covered by the DDA. From my reading of the text so far , the employer has now accepted that the OP is covered by the DDA. So the questions - do not be specific with the answers- I understand your sentiment for not wanting to be identified.

 

1) When did your employer (if they did) accept that you were covered by the DDA. Was it after you won your appeal regarding the PHI cover.

 

2) Has your employer put pressure on you to return to work since accepting you are covered by the DDA or did they put the pressure on before.

 

3) What is it you wish to achieve. Do you want compensation , or reasonable adjustments to be made.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

[cfs_too]

Hi,

 

Sorry to ask so many questions...

 

Was the Occupational Health Officer an expert in that field?

Not an 'expert' but did have experience. The Occ Health was 'employed' by the employer to confirm status of health, to be used in an appeal situation which was several months after the creation of the controversial report.

 

This report confirmed I was ill etc, and although I was sent to this individual specifically for the purpose of a 'new opinion', for use as evidence in an appeal - this evidence was dismissed by the employer.

 

The employer refused to submit as appeal evidence, so I insisted and submitted it myself!

 

 

(that is if the controversial report was written by that OH)?

The 'controversial' report was not written by a specialist in my condition, which was my initial main cause for complaint.

 

It was created by an 'independent medical expert', who to make any diagnosis on my illness is 'outside of his expertise', requested by the insurance company. Basically a complete set up.

 

 

this is what has caused many of the other issues, the employer has not supported me in getting this 'controversial' report discredited. They have refused intently and will have nothing to do with my 'opinion' that this report is in error. This is even after I have provided evidence that the 'specialist' who created this report is well known in the industry for creating 'insurance decline' IMR's!

 

[cfs_too]

Hi

 

Me Too/ BRB,

Just a couple of questions which I feel are pertinent. I understand from previous text that the employer initially refused to accept that Me Too was covered by the DDA. From my reading of the text so far , the employer has now accepted that the OP is covered by the DDA. So the questions - do not be specific with the answers- I understand your sentiment for not wanting to be identified.

 

1) When did your employer (if they did) accept that you were covered by the DDA. Was it after you won your appeal regarding the PHI cover.

**removed**

 

 

2) Has your employer put pressure on you to return to work since accepting you are covered by the DDA or did they put the pressure on before. **removed**

3) What is it you wish to achieve. Do you want compensation , or reasonable adjustments to be made. **removed**

 

The summary of this one is really by not believing I was actually ill at all, does this mean they have not accepted I am disabled, if it is my illness which causes the disability?

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

Edited June 9, 2010 by cfs_too
Negotiating a Compromise Agreement

[scousegeezer]

Me Too,

My experience of the DDA is personal ( having taken employers to ET for Dis. Discrim.) and also as a Union Rep. I am NOT a lawyer and I am NOT legally trained. IMHO, you may not have a case for Dis. Disc. for their failuer to accept you are covered by the DDA at an earlier time. There is nothing within the DDA that states that an employer has to accept an amplyee is covered by the DDA , just because the employee thinks that they are. Again, IMHO if you did tey to take the employer to ET for Dis. Disc. there "defence" would probably that they had conflicting reports and therefore it was their judgement to not accept that you were covered. It would appear that once any conflict was cleared up- ie the PHI appeal was allowed - they then accepted that you were covered by the DDA. An ET may find that they actually behaved reasonably due to the conficting reports. However, as you are going to see a solicitor I would recommend that you take his advice and NOT mine. I hope they are employment specialists. Good luck with everything.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

[cfs_too]

Scousegeezer,

 

Thank you so much for your assistance today, it has been really helpful and eye-opening. I thought is was much more of a clear cut case until I received the replies.

 

I agree with your suggestions of their 'get out clause', based on 'because an employee thinks they are', but I think what would be detrimental to the argument of 'conflicting reports' is that they ignored their own Occupation Health report which was commissioned to validate my health status to dispute the other report! This was back in early 09 (only a few months after the dodgy insurance report).

 

One would think that their own advisor should take precedence over one which was a complete set-up.

 

I shall bring this to the attention of the solicitor, and just hope that he understands DDA much more than I do. He isn't an employment specialist, but a PHI specialist, but I do think he knows quite a lot about the employment side as a result of assisting many people with PHI group claims.

 

 

Me_too

 

 

Me Too,

My experience of the DDA is personal ( having taken employers to ET for Dis. Discrim.) and also as a Union Rep. I am NOT a lawyer and I am NOT legally trained. IMHO, you may not have a case for Dis. Disc. for their failuer to accept you are covered by the DDA at an earlier time. There is nothing within the DDA that states that an employer has to accept an amplyee is covered by the DDA , just because the employee thinks that they are. Again, IMHO if you did tey to take the employer to ET for Dis. Disc. there "defence" would probably that they had conflicting reports and therefore it was their judgement to not accept that you were covered. It would appear that once any conflict was cleared up- ie the PHI appeal was allowed - they then accepted that you were covered by the DDA. An ET may find that they actually behaved reasonably due to the conficting reports. However, as you are going to see a solicitor I would recommend that you take his advice and NOT mine. I hope they are employment specialists. Good luck with everything.

 

Cheers - Scousegeezer.

[JonCris]

Their choosing to accept one report over another particularly as the report they ignored was from their own expert is highly relevant in bringing your case for discrimination. When you say the insurer the insurer of what & of whom?

 

Is there any benefit, financial or otherwise, for the firm to select one expert over another.

 

There is case law that if your badly treat after the event & caused additional stress then general damages are increased