Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle

[colinliu2010]

"Parked in a parking place or area not designated for that class of vehicle."

 

I am not sure whether I have contravened but in place I parked, a friend and I checked the signs and they clearly showed, at the time, it was outside any controlling hours and there was no mention of designated class of vehicle. So question?

 

If I did park in the alleged space, would I still be liable for payment whether I have parked outside the designated time or not?

In addition, no PCN was attached to my windscreen, and I was posted a letter highlighting the incident. I presume therefore any PCN was not served correctly?

Finally, if I parked in the space, PCN was served, although I dispute, and I am liable for payment, should I not be entitled to a discount? This was not offered and I have demanded to pay the full £120. Legally am I entitled to a discount?

[green_and_mean]

Post up the letter you got sent with the VRM removed.

 

You are not entitled to a discount as from what you say you missed the discount period. If this was due to 'no PCN being served' the PCN should be contested, if it was served but removed or fell off before you noticed it theres little you can do as far as discount is concerned.

 

If it was outside restricted hours then the PCN was issued wrongly. I cannot see how the sign cannot state it was for a designated class of vehicle....what did it actually say?

[colinliu2010]

Hi thanks for the reply. I will check the sign today to verify this. will upload a photo for reference and a summary of the letter.

As for no discount, no PCN was attached and any notification was made by post.

I presume, you are saying this on the basis, the PCN was attached?

[green_and_mean]

What I'm saying is at this point only one person actually knows if the PCN was attatched or not and that is the CEO. If you had been there and left whilst the CEO was there you could argue no PCN was served but until you determine what evidence the Council has regarding service, you cannot state no PCN was attatched to the vehicle at the time of contravention.

[colinliu2010]

OK,

 

It looks like I am at fault. The sign, although small, does say buses and coaches only.

 

I am at fault but I did not receive a PCN and I have been posted a NOTICE TO OWNER.

 

If I can challenge whether the serving of the PCN was made correctly I presume I may default to the maximum fine of £120?

 

Something tells me I should pay, but I was unaware I was at fault and missed the discount deadline. £120 down the drain is a lot of money to throw. Any advise?

 

Thanks

 

Colin

[green_and_mean]

That is not a parking sign its 'how to pay' there should be a proper traffic sign? Since you have lost the discount (rightly or wrongly) you have nothing to lose than to go all the way to adjudication.

Therefore if you want help we need...

 

location

copy of NTO

photo of sign (if you are local)

 

when did you get the NTO so we know how long you have to get the appeal in?

 

Was it in Westminster as we already have one appeal in progress...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?273712-code-23c&highlight=23c

[colinliu2010]

Thanks for that. I will post something tonight.

[colinliu2010]

Yes it was in Westminster except on this occasion it was on a Saturday at around 820pm. It did have a sign with:

 

The top half of the sign shows coach parking fees in action for 8.30am-midnight and no parking for coaches midnight -8.am in the lower section.

 

the middle sections shows parking restrictions in action for the monday to friday and the saturday. at no point does the sign show no car parking.

 

on these grounds incorrect sinage should get you off the ticket.

 

But I found it confusing and agree that it did not state no cars. It was dark, and having went to the bay today, noticed the Bus road markings. I did not see these, again, it was starts to get dark at this time and one would like for any OBVIOUS signs, at the same eye level. These are some additional pics:

 

 

I was parked near the bikes at the rear. Usually, there would be white tram lines similar to this:

 

 

So one would look for signs. This is what I had in front of me too:

 

[colinliu2010]

Oh, the NTO was received on the 23rd Sep. So recently.

[colinliu2010]

Looking at the photos, it does appear to have a PCN attached but it WASN't there when I arrived and I have a witness as I mentioned I was with a friend!!!

 

Anyone successfully challenged on the grounds of unclear signage before?

 

 

You can see from the position of the car, I was unaware of any BUS road markings

Edited September 27, 2010 by colinliu2010

[green_and_mean]

I would suggest an appeal based on the fact its red route and excluded from Westminsters enforcement area.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1994/1504/schedule/1/made

 

The Whitehall Parking Enforcement Area Excluded from the Special Parking Area Comprising Those Roads and Parts of Roads Described in Part II of this Schedule

1. Abbey Orchard Street, from its junction with Victoria Street, south for 40m, from the Victoria Street kerbline.

2. Abingdon Street (A3212).

3. Barton Street.

4. Brewer’s Green.

5. Bridge Street.

6. Broad Sanctuary.

7. Broadway.

8. Buckingham Gate (B323), from its junction with Birdcage Walk, south to its junction with Victoria Street.

9. Butler Place.

10. Cannon Row.

11. Carteret Street.

12. Caxton Street.

13. Cowley Street.

14. Craig’s Court.

15. Dacre Street.

16. Dartmouth Street.

17. Dean Farrar Street.

18. Dean’s Yard.

19. Derby Gate.

20. Downing Street.

21. Ermin’s Hill.

22. Great College Street.

23. Great Peter Street from the north side kerbline, to the centre line of the carriageway, from its junction with Marsham Street to Millbank.

24. Great Scotland Yard.

25. Great Smith Street (B326).

26. Great George Street (A3214).

27. Horse Guards Avenue.

28. King Charles Street.

29. Lewisham Street.

30. Little College Street.

31. Little George Street.

32. Little Sanctuary.

33. Little Smith Street.

34. Matthew Parker Street.

35. Millbank (A3212), from its junction with Dean Stanley Street north to its junction with Abingdon Street.

36. New Scotland Yard.

37. Northumberland Avenue (A400), from the south side kerbline, to the centre line of the carriageway.

38. Old Queen Street.

39. Old Palace Yard (A3212).

40. Palmer Street.

41. Parliament Square.

42. Parliament Street.

43. Petty France.

44. Queen Anne’s Gate.

45. Richmond Terrace.

46. Richmond Terrace Mews.

47. Saint Margaret Street (A3212).

48. Scotland Place.

49. Spring Gardens, from its junction with The Mall, southwards.

50. Storey’s Gate.

51. The Sanctuary.

52. Tothill Street.

53. Treasury Passage.

54. Tufton Street, from its junction with Great College Street south to its junction with Great Peter Street.

55. Vandon Passage.

56. Vandon Street.

57. Victoria Embankment (A3211), from Westminster Bridge to its junction with Northumberland Avenue.

58. Victoria Street (A302), from its junction with Buckingham Gate, east to its junction with Broad Sanctuary.

59. Westminster Bridge (A302).

60. Whitehall (A3212).

61. Whitehall Court.

62. Whitehall Place.

[sailor sam]

As G & M points out, there is another thread similar to this to which we have yet to hear what the outcome was. I'm guessing that you were parked in the 'coach/bus bays' in Park Lane. Unfortunatley there is no on street parking available for cars in Park Lane which is why there is a 24hr NCP underground car park there. The bays in which you appear to have parked are restricted to coaches/buses only and have been as such for many years. I agree that the signs are not as obvious as they could be so perhaps they need challenging. However, I would be surprised if that hasn't happened before as this is a very hot spot for enforcement so I would imagine scores of PCN's have been issued here over the years.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[colinliu2010]

Appreciate your feedbacks. i was actually parked on Victoria Embankment (A3211), close to Embankment station.

 

The signs are unclear and one can misinterrupt the signs easily. Attached are also road markings on the area, without the white tam lines, compared to the markings down the road close to Big Ben, is unclear and does not clearly show they are bus only.

 

So, based on the unclear signage, and highlighting "The Whitehall Parking Enforcement Area Excluded from the Special Parking Area Comprising Those Roads and Parts of Roads Described in Part II of this Schedule", I will based my challenge on these facts. In addition, I have a witness that can verify there was no PCN attached although the photos contradict this.

 

Hope this helps!!!

 

[colinliu2010]

Looking at the list above, from Westminster Bridge to its junction with Northumberland Avenue.

 

I actually parked past Northumberland Street. Near Embankment Station opposite the Victoria Embankment park. Looks like I can not challenge based on this information?

 

Will challenge based on unclear signage and road markings. Since 50 yards down the road there are clear markings saying BUSES ONLY, CYCLES Only and MOTORCYCLES ONLY and one can easily overlook! 10 yards in front of my car, there is red route, why would I not park there if i had known!!!

[green_and_mean]

The signs are not legal without a bay marked out in white with the word 'buses' on the road.

[colinliu2010]

Hi Guys,

 

Just a quick update. Not surprisingly, they rejected my appeal and now it's to the adjudicator.

 

I have come across this article and think it may help my case.

www ticketfighter co uk/parking.htm

 

Although it did not mention buses, Pay and display, limited stay, motorcycle, doctor, residents and business permit parking bays

 

I assume this is true for buses too?

 

I will now resort to the adjudicator. Do you think it is viable for some form of compensation?

 

Thanks All again

[sailor sam]

Hi Guys,

 

Just a quick update. Not surprisingly, they rejected my appeal and now it's to the adjudicator.

 

I have come across this article and think it may help my case.

www ticketfighter co uk/parking.htm

 

Although it did not mention buses, Pay and display, limited stay, motorcycle, doctor, residents and business permit parking bays

 

I assume this is true for buses too?

 

I will now resort to the adjudicator. Do you think it is viable for some form of compensation?

 

Thanks All again

 

For what exactly?

 

There does not appear to be any bay marked on the road surface apart from the word 'Buses'. I would suggest that you have a reasonable chance of getting the ticket cancelled but i'm not sure that you will get any compensation.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[colinliu2010]

It's clearly obvious the authority have taken advantage and from yourself, even you are saying it is very likely the PCN will be cancelled.

 

Compensation.....the stresses, time for research and how clearly westminster is in the act of fraud and taking full advantage of drivers' minimal knowledge!!!!!!!!

[colinliu2010]

In this case for example:

forums pepipoo com/lofiversion/index.php/t49831.html

 

It is totally outrageous and to think councils can get away with robbery!!!

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

I will now resort to the adjudicator. Do you think it is viable for some form of compensation?

 

Compensation.....the stresses, time for research and how clearly westminster is in the act of fraud and taking full advantage of drivers' minimal knowledge!!!!!!!!

 

Then no, not a chance!

[colinliu2010]

Oh and I think in this case .... council acts frivolously

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Oh and I think in this case .... council acts frivolously

 

Then that may be a case for costs but not compensation.

[Pixie7]

My car was towed away in London after 6 min observation as one wheel was in motorbikes only bay. Can they do it so quicly? I had a valid ticket for the space that the (rest of the) car was parked. I paid £50 for PCN and £200 for release. I am going to challenge it, I think.

[green_and_mean]

My car was towed away in London after 6 min observation as one wheel was in motorbikes only bay. Can they do it so quicly? I had a valid ticket for the space that the (rest of the) car was parked. I paid £50 for PCN and £200 for release. I am going to challenge it, I think.

 

Start your own thread and post the paperwork such as PCN and release forms.